From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V7 #223 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Monday, September 26 2005 Volume 07 : Number 223 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Smokin' O.P.'s ["pete jameson" ] [RS] Re: shindell-list-digest V7 #222 [Terry Woodburn ] [RS] Re: covers [DrTobs@aol.com] [RS] Re: covers [Jean Rossner ] [RS] RE: Cover 2 [Jamie Younghans / John McDonnell Subject: [RS] Smokin' O.P.'s The title to a Bob Seger cover album from the early 70's. How many studio records are there to date? Sparrow's Point, Blue Divide, Reunion Hill, Somewhere Near Paterson, Vuelta -- that's FIVE. I feel a little disappointed that the covers record is a bridge to the next studio record, only because I love his songwriting so much. I agree that his live performances have grown to become magical experiences. That was not always the case, of course. First time I saw him (Oct. '92) at the Town Hall in Irvington, NY he played with Lucy and he was very uncomfortable on stage. His stage persona (read comfort level) has really evolved through the years. What about a live album of covers? Here's my track list, which I might call "Meant to Last": 1. Lives in the Balance Jackson Browne 2. Waist Deep in the Big Muddy Pete Seeger 3. Tower of Song Leonard Cohen 4. I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry Hank Williams 5. Jack Doyle (AKA The Contender) Jimmy McCarthy 6. Meeting Across the River Bruce Springsteen 7. Jerusalem Dan Bern 8. My Little Town Art Garfunkel 9. Where Do the Children Play? Cat Stevens 10. All the Young Dudes David Bowie 11. Sanctuary Eliza Gilkyson 12. Peace on Earth Paul Hewson This is a Joycean list, which could produce hundreds more, but maybe a few will resonate with the Shin-diggers... Pedrolemic ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 09:48:02 -0700 From: Terry Woodburn Subject: [RS] Re: shindell-list-digest V7 #222 > which Adam pointed out is a bootleg. > > Dave Grohl (Nirvana/Foo Fighters) > makes the point that if you're a struggling musician trying to make it and > someone is ripping you off, then sharing is bad What generally seems to happen when an artist (be it a modest seller or multi-platinum artist) sees their work being SOLD with no royalties being paid, well, they freak. Not only that, but it makes many artists re-think how they feel about the non-profit free-trading of their shows amongst fans. Bootleggers "for profit" are cockroaches. They somehow feel that by investing their 50 cents in burning a CD, they can reap the next 10 bucks (and up) for their own personal gain, without concern or consideration for an artist's intellectual property or livlihood. As a practice, I don't pay for bootlegs. To do so is financially damaging to the artist AND brings on "no taping, no trading" policies at shows and on newsgroups. It hurts everyone, except for that guy on Ebay. tw ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 14:25:20 -0400 From: "Joe Lanzalotto" Subject: RE: [RS] Re: shindell-list-digest V7 #222 Ebay is allegedly against the sale on bootlegs on their site. I have been told that they will remove auction items that are bootlegs. Joe - -----Original Message----- From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org [mailto:owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Terry Woodburn Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 12:48 PM To: shindell-list@smoe.org Subject: [RS] Re: shindell-list-digest V7 #222 > which Adam pointed out is a bootleg. > > Dave Grohl (Nirvana/Foo Fighters) > makes the point that if you're a struggling musician trying to make it and > someone is ripping you off, then sharing is bad What generally seems to happen when an artist (be it a modest seller or multi-platinum artist) sees their work being SOLD with no royalties being paid, well, they freak. Not only that, but it makes many artists re-think how they feel about the non-profit free-trading of their shows amongst fans. Bootleggers "for profit" are cockroaches. They somehow feel that by investing their 50 cents in burning a CD, they can reap the next 10 bucks (and up) for their own personal gain, without concern or consideration for an artist's intellectual property or livlihood. As a practice, I don't pay for bootlegs. To do so is financially damaging to the artist AND brings on "no taping, no trading" policies at shows and on newsgroups. It hurts everyone, except for that guy on Ebay. tw ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 14:27:05 -0400 From: "Joe Lanzalotto" Subject: RE: [RS] RE: covers Even the Grateful Dead, who have ALWAYS allowed and even encouraged recording and sharing of their live music are against bootleggers making a buck from them. Joe - -----Original Message----- From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org [mailto:owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Jamie Younghans / John McDonnell Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 10:34 PM To: shindell-list@smoe.org Subject: [RS] RE: covers Hi all, Carrie wrote: >>>Hey....is anyone familiar with this cd I found on ebay?<< which Adam pointed out is a bootleg. How do you guys feels about this issue. Dave Grohl (Nirvana/Foo Fighters) makes the point that if you're a struggling musician trying to make it and someone is ripping you off, then sharing is bad and you have a right to complain, but if you're a multi-millionaire worried about pennies then F--- you. Although I agree, it doesn't really address whether sharing is bad in and of itself. I have no idea whether RS is a multi-millionaire or not (if he is, I'm guessing it's not from his music sales, which is an indictment of our music industry and celebrity culture), but I would be uncomfortable buying a live show, as opposed to just sharing it. I am more than willing to give the artist the money, and even more willing to spread the word via sharing. Maybe sending a contribution to his Crecer Con Amor for every bootleg would justify it. Convinced as I am that he is better live (and solo) than in the studio, I will do almost (I said almost) anything for a recording of a live show. Is this pure denial? John McD ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:46:06 EDT From: DrTobs@aol.com Subject: [RS] Re: covers I couldn't resist jumping in on this one! "Under the Covers" would be my vote for a title:) I can't believe no one has mentioned the mutha of ALL covers-Macarthur Park! I'm kidding, of course. Whomever mentioned Al Stewart's Roads to Moscow was right on-that would be great done by Richard. Others that come to mind: Canadian Railroad Trilogy-Gordon Lightfoot The Actor-The Moody Blues/Justin Hayward Urge for Going-Tom Rush Hurricane-Bob Dylan Mortal City-Dar Step Inside This House-Lyle Lovett Alison-Elvis Costello Lilac Wine-Jeff Buckley and I think Richard could do a good cover of Desperado That was fun. Toby ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 18:14:22 -0400 From: Jean Rossner Subject: [RS] Re: covers Toby wrote: > >Urge for Going-Tom Rush Isn't that a Joni Mitchell song, which Tom Rush covered? For some reason, my ears are imagining "On the Amazon" (can't remember who wrote it, Don McLean covered it on his third album) as done by Richard Shindell. It's a very silly song and probably won't happen, but I think it would be great. Jean ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 00:17:15 -0400 From: Jamie Younghans / John McDonnell Subject: [RS] RE: Cover 2 Hi all, Just wanted to clarify a couple of things: when I mentioned bootlegs, I wasn't referring to the "cockroaches" who were selling them. I was referring to a shared recording which, if put on a CD or MP3 player, should warrant a contribution to RS' project. I was not contemplating paying for a CD-thereby ripping off the artist--and then, as a salve, making a contribution. I was curious, however, as to how anyone felt about the sharing itself. On the cover issue, and maybe "On the Cover" could be a title, I'm a Tom Waits fan, and I think RS could do a fine job on many Tom Waits songs. I'm not a big fan of his "torch" songs, but years ago, a cover guy--who was a great guitarist--in Dublin used to do "Martha," and it was excellent. For the title alone I think he should do "Filipino Box Spring Hog" and I think he would do a fine job of "Shiver Me Timbers." Actually, he could also do anything off "Heart Attack and Vine." John McD ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 00:59:15 EDT From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] RE: Cover 2 >> On the cover issue, and maybe "On the Cover" could be a title << Just a hunch, but I will bet all the money in my pocket against all the money in anyone else's pocket that Richard will pick a title like "On the Cover" or "Cover Boy" or "Under the Covers" or "Cover Me" or any other "cover" pun exactly 24 hours after Hell freezes over. RG ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V7 #223 ***********************************