From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V6 #284 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Tuesday, November 30 2004 Volume 06 : Number 284 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] I'm just a Bill, yes, I'm only a Bill [Norman Johnson ] Re: [RS] (OT: politics) Long Time Away [Chris Foxwell Subject: [RS] I'm just a Bill, yes, I'm only a Bill Gene, you got me humming SchoolHouse Rock's "I'm just a bill". ;) >> Rangel, a longtime voice for the minority and the underdog in New York City, did this in a gadfly role, to shame the other side of the aisle into voting against it.<< Let me add that Rangel's bill was introduced almost two years ago, in early 2003 - before the war. The Republican "leadership" only acted on it a couple months before the election just to vote it down. I do think there will be a draft sometime in the next 4 years. I always wondered what Vietnam was like. Now I know. Norman ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:44:02 -0500 From: B Gallagher Subject: [RS] Don't Faint for Me Argentina Vanessa, the V that went to 3 shows in as many nights, wrote: Ohhh, how I wish that I could. Geez. I mean... wow. Just wow. Oh, and if anyone onlist does end up going? I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that we are going to want *plenty* of details. Lots of them. The whole night described in fine, fine detail. I'm saying you couldn't provide us with too much detail if you tried. I mean, God. Richard + Puente Celeste + Buenos Aires. ::faints:: - --V - ------- Have you ever been to one Grateful Dead concert? Have you ever eaten just one Lays potatoe (republican spelling) chip? And I thought I was a Fan? :) BG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:14:05 -0600 From: "kunigunda" Subject: Re: [RS] Lawrence, KS show Kristen sez > Of course it had to happen AFTER i moved from Lawrence but good news for > those of you living near Lawrence, KS. Richard has a show booked on Feb 5 at > Unity Church (great acoustics!!!). * * * * * OH MY......G-G-G-GOODNESS!!! I don't believe it! This is incredible. Kristen, how did you hear of this? Are you sure? Am I taking the bait? Please let me know! I'm beside myself. BTW - I was wondering where you'd been lately! Where are you now? Preparing to faint in KC Carrie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 00:48:00 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Foxwell Subject: Re: [RS] (OT: politics) Long Time Away Hi all. I figure I'll tackle the first of these reasons. My thoughts are pretty obvious, not at all startling or new, but they really should be said by someone. Apologies for the length of this; it's late and I'm afraid I get carried away a little. On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 Wchmelir@aol.com wrote: > 1. With Bush as commander-in-chief, the American military and our > allies have removed probably the 2 most evil dictatorial regimes of > the 1990s-2000s. Something like 47 million people in Afghanistan and > Iraq breath freer air today because of decisions make by GWB. I for > one am happy that Afghani women aren't subject to beatings for > leaving their homes without a male relative. I'm also happy that > Uday is no longer feeding men he doesn't like to his tiger. Everyone in his right mind is happy about Uday being gone, and the infinitely-more-difficult-to-prove "better treatment of women" in post-Saddam Iraq. That isn't the point. The point is that Dubya lied to his country and to the world about why he started the war. He lies about it every day, with a big vacant smile on his face. Go back and research the "bluster trail" left behind by the Bush administration in trying to justify the war. "We're doing this for the people of Iraq!", that proud and noble claim, is the third reason cited for the war, after the first two "reasons" were disproved. First was "they have WMDs, and they're going to attack us!" Eh...wrong. Definitely, and embarrassingly, wrong. The second reason--that is, the first excuse--was "well, they have close undeniable links to al-Qaeda!" Eh...wrong, conclusively. Third, only third, do we hear "well, we've done a good thing, look at Democracy being spread in the Middle-east!" (even though "sprayed" is more like it). That's the current official spin: "we're out to sow the seeds of democracy in Iraq!" I would be spluttering with laughter, if I weren't already shaking in anger. The president of our country lied to us. He lied to the world. And he broke countless international laws in doing so. Yes, it can be argued--with difficulty--that Iraq is better off now, and putting aside all sarcasm, I do believe that Iraq has the potential to become MUCH better than it ever could have, *if* things are handled well by those who plunged Iraq into the mess. No pain, no gain, ain't it the truth...but not all pain leads to gain. But that doesn't excuse the fact that we were bullied and intimidated into this war by lies and menacing hints of doom. The reasons that the United States entered this war are NOT the reasons that our president cited, and NOT the reasons that many Congressmen and lawmakers voted for the war, and we must never forget that, regardless of what ultimately happens in Iraq. I dearly, dearly wish that our president chose to stand up in front of us, address his country, and say "Look, we made a mistake. We thought they had WMDs, but they didn't. We used the best intelligence available to us, and it turned out to be wrong. But we're in this now, we cannot abandon the people of Iraq, and so we have to try to make the best of this, and here's what I think the best can be." That would have won him SO many respect points, among everyone that I know, and would have gone a long long way towards restoring confidence in our leadership. But there was no trace of such humility or respect. Instead we are treated to one insulting lie after another, arrogant bluster followed by cowboy bravado, and the American people swallowed it up, hook, line, and sinker. It is amazing and terrifying that many people, when asked why we went to war, say "to free Iraq from Saddam." It's terrifying how quickly we forget, and how afraid we are to challenge that which is said to us. Any attempt to justify this war by pointing to that "reason" is blatant revisionist history on the government's part...and this, *this*, is what makes folks suspect conspiracies, such as constructed WMD evidence, wars conducted for oil, the quiet enforced spread of Christianity, etc. Such things become all the more palatable after we witness these staggering lies and coverups, quite aside from any intrinsic plausibility they may contain. It's appalling to watch Bush, Cheney, and the crowd glibly take us from one reason to another, appalling to see them stand up in front of us and proudly lie about why we started this mess. Some good may come of it, certainly, and that remains to be seen...but if it does, that will not change the fact that we were led into this war by lies. - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 21:20:37 -0500 From: Lisa Davis - home Subject: Re: [RS] politics - OFF TOPIC! (totally) similarly... >Congress writes law and the courts interpret them -- The US Constitution." Yes, and courts interpret the US CONSTITUTION ALSO which TRUMPS the laws that Congress writes, as the (born in New England) founding fathers meant it to happen, and thank god or we would have the kind of majority rule that may happen in Iraq -- where the Shiite majority can repress the Sunii minority. (Anyone read a Handmaid's Tale?) This is really not a red/blue issue at all -- remember FDR packing the court so that labor laws could survive interpretations of the constitution that considered imposing a 40-hour work-week and an 8-hour day illegal. IMHO the justices we have that have done the worst to the Constitution have been Thomas and Scalia, and I don't care WHAT Thomas put in his coke cans. Rehnquist, by contrast, has taken a comparatively restrained point of view on such issues as labor unions. No one could possibly call the Supremes a hotbed of radicalism. But I hope we don't wind up with a court that leaves it to the states to restore all kinds of things states once used to think they could do, like prohibit interracial marriage, segregated schools, no contraception,................. But not to worry, every dollar GWB saves me is going directly to the coffers of Planned Parenthood and possibly even NARAL, to whom I've never given before Lisa Davis Attorney at law Ignoring all politics and living in music-induced state of deep deep denial for 26 days now........................................... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 01:12:21 -0500 From: "Kristen Myshrall" Subject: Re: [RS] Lawrence, KS show *grin* Yes I'm sure...trust me! Oh, I just checked... it's on Richard's schedule now. I'm in CT working on my PhD (also known as I am psychotically masochistic please someone put me out of my misery before I attempt a Post-Doc too) at UCONN ...however I may have to come back for a visit for that show. Do you know how many times we tried to book him while I was with West Side Folk?!?! - -Kristen >From: "kunigunda" >Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org >To: >Subject: Re: [RS] Lawrence, KS show >Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:14:05 -0600 > >Kristen sez > > Of course it had to happen AFTER i moved from Lawrence but good news for > > those of you living near Lawrence, KS. Richard has a show booked on Feb >5 >at > > Unity Church (great acoustics!!!). >* * * * * OH MY......G-G-G-GOODNESS!!! I don't believe it! This is >incredible. Kristen, how did you hear of this? Are you sure? Am I taking >the bait? Please let me know! I'm beside myself. > > BTW - I was wondering where you'd been lately! Where are you now? > >Preparing to faint in KC >Carrie _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V6 #284 ***********************************