From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V6 #275 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Wednesday, November 24 2004 Volume 06 : Number 275 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [RS] there goes mavis [adam plunkett ] [RS] The Verdant Mile. [Rongrittz@aol.com] Re: [RS] there goes mavis [Chris Foxwell ] Re: [RS] there goes mavis [Lisa Davis - home ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:13:00 -0800 (PST) From: adam plunkett Subject: Re: [RS] there goes mavis Good points Chris but I still disagree but thats what this fun! :) When he told the story to my audience the joke was if you write and throw a canary into anything, it'll work wonders so I didn't take him seriously that the canary nullified the image or why would he had kept it? I think the song could have been crafted differently if it were just a children's song. Also, the "sound" of the song doesn't give - at least to me - the vibe of just a little song about a girl wanting a bird to fly away....and, lastly, birds flying away is imagary used often in terms of escaping something bad. Maybe we are both right though! Multi-faceted songs is something Richard is good at. Chris Foxwell wrote: On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, adam plunkett wrote: > I cannot speak for others, but I have always thought of "There Goes > Mavis" as political or an allegory about recent events since the first > tiem I heard it. My feelings were, in my mind, were verified when I saw > Richard this past September in New Hampshire. When introducing the > song, he said he was working with the image of a castle crumbling on > itself and got stuck from there until his daughter wante to buy a canary > which gave him the idea of throwing the canary into the song. If he > started out with the crumbling castle image, I would suspect he agrees > with the political analysis. I too enjoyed Christy's post. Very nice ideas. Regarding Richard's comment about the song: I actually came away with the opposite impression, after Richard gave a near-identical description of the song. In a show in Boston not too long ago--can't remember which it was, there are three possibilities, two Passim shows or the most recent Somerville Theater show--Richard said that he was trying for some grand crumbling-castle song, but that it wasn't going anywhere. Then when his daughter was talking about a canary, he decided to go with a whim and try putting the canary into the song, and wham, it changed everything, and he wound up with a nice little children's tale. I came away from that thinking that the *original* intent of the song was to make a big symbolic construction, something about youth and time and shifting priorities, but that it just wasn't working for him, and he leapt at the opportunity to finish it off with something whimsical and light, almost random. Now, we all know Richard's music. *Nothing* he puts into his song is random or meaningless. I'm not saying that nothing has any meaning in the song...indeed, the very concept is alien to my brand of song interpretation and enjoyment. ("What do you MEAN it doesn't mean anything?? What kind of music is that??") I just felt like the grand ideas he had for the song wound up...well, crumbling, and the song morphed into a light, airy tune about children on a beach, witnessing a strange event. (That was exactly how he introduced the song at another performance, months and months ago.) In any case, what deep and meaningful interpretations I did/do have of Mavis focus more on the above-mentioned issues--time, growing up, shifting tides and crumbling castles and the eroding of one's youth--then they do on politics. I do really like Christy's thoughts, though, them's good stuff. - --Chris Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 22:17:06 EST From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: [RS] The Verdant Mile. >> On another note, on my way home tonight WUMB in Boston played a "new track from Tracy Grammer". Now, I know very little about her and her late husband bgut in this song, there is a line referring to "richard says we turn into the whipporell"...would this be a reference to the Shindell song? The song also had references to Dace Carter songs as well I think but again, I could be wrong as I know very little about his music. << That would be the title track from Tracy's recently-released mini-CD, called "The Verdant Mile." And the reference is indeed about Richard and his song (in which Dave Carter is "the mountaineer" in the last verse). Here are the lyrics if anyone's interested, and the very excellent CD itself can be ordered from www.tracygrammer.com. Oh, quick note: Tracy and Dave were not married, just "partners in all things" as they liked to say. RG THE VERDANT MILE Tracy Grammer, 2004 I didn't want to burn like this So close to the bone With no muscle left to carry it This black bag of stones It's a black bag Oooh the August heat The autumn rain And winter's face of blue These seasons keep their spinning up But there's no sign of you There is no sign And so I walk this verdant mile Of memory with you Gentle Arms of Eden And The Mountain get me through Well Richard says the whippoorwill taught him how to go I tell him death is just a dream I don't really know It's everything and nothing when the spirit cracks the sky But flowers fold and go to seed and no one questions why Nobody, oh no And so I walk this verdant mile Of memory with you Gentle Arms of Eden And The Raven get me through I miss you like I love the sound of blackbirds in the trees I sit alone and wish that maybe one of you would visit me But no matter how much seed I hang What prayer I call out I cannot bring that bird in from the field And make an angel come around And so I walk this verdant mile Of memory with you Gentle Arms of Eden And The Mountain get me through And so I walk this verdant mile Of memory with you Gentle Arms of Eden And The Mountain get me through ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 23:09:33 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Foxwell Subject: Re: [RS] there goes mavis On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, adam plunkett wrote: > Good points Chris but I still disagree but thats what this fun! :) > When he told the story to my audience the joke was if you write and > throw a canary into anything, it'll work wonders so I didn't take him > seriously that the canary nullified the image or why would he had kept > it? I think the song could have been crafted differently if it were > just a children's song. Also, the "sound" of the song doesn't give - at > least to me - the vibe of just a little song about a girl wanting a bird > to fly away....and, lastly, birds flying away is imagary used often in > terms of escaping something bad. All good points. I guess it all depends on how you hear Richard describe it; in the show I attended, the emphasis/implication--to my ears, mind you--was more on the canary changing the gist of the song, transforming a ponderous, symbol-laden work into something lighter and sweeter, and not so much on the canary acting as some missing element that he had been looking for. Ooh, how's this: it's like the song he had in mind was just as crumbling and doomed as the sandcastle, with the same ultimate fate, until the canary came in and saved the song...but only after forcing everyone to let go of the original castle. :) ("But no one is watching, when it falls...") Hee hee. Anyway, hey, I could very well be imposing my own interpretation. Perhaps someone else at that show came away with an entirely different impression. Who knows? Like you said, a variety of interpretations is a good thing. I think we can agree on one thing, though: the song is pretty awesome, eh? - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 21:33:28 -0500 From: Lisa Davis - home Subject: Re: [RS] there goes mavis > someone, however, mentioned that the song was "too > sweet" for them...i beg to differ (rather > respectfully, if i may) I really like your analysis. I kind of felt that way too. "Live Free or Die." Richard doesn't do things like include the swept-away castle, just as ornament. I think. Lisa Davis ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V6 #275 ***********************************