From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V6 #245 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Friday, November 5 2004 Volume 06 : Number 245 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Ohio....seems Kerry won after all [Gerry Evans ] [RS] RE: shindell-list-digest V6 #244 ["jw" ] [RS] Mandates? ["Michael Larkin" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:56:28 -0800 (PST) From: Gerry Evans Subject: [RS] Ohio....seems Kerry won after all A friend sent me this link. Don't know how credible the argument is (but nothing surprises me anymore...) http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/110504V.shtml __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:52:15 -0800 From: "jw" Subject: [RS] RE: shindell-list-digest V6 #244 > and that we think they're ignorant. p a u s e It's hard to > change my mind on that sentiment when I read in the NYTimes yesterday that a poll right before the election (for whatever > polls are worth) showed that 75% of Bush supporters believe Iraq was linked to A Qaeda. > If there's any validity to that, then 75% of 51% of this country hasn't watched the news since September 11, 2001. Actually, they've been watching Fox News ... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:12:27 -0500 From: "Michael Larkin" Subject: [RS] Mandates? Is it possible that these right-wing fundamentalist fanatics that have taken over our country are secretly gay themselves? They all claim that they have "man dates". - ----- Original Message ----- From: "shindell-list-digest" To: Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 9:49 AM Subject: shindell-list-digest V6 #244 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:28:08 -0500 > From: Jennifer Coia > Subject: [RS] Re: shindell-list-digest V6 #243 > > Compromise between the fractions of the country (not the government) > seems like it's less and less possible. As Vanessa pointed out, the > demographic Rove targeted was the Bible Belt heartland. They think the > "liberal" are sinners and the devil's spawn. Unless they under go > hypnosis or get struck by lightning, it is awful hard to reason with > that mindset. The Right also sees the Left as educated elitist snobs > and that we think they're ignorant. p a u s e It's hard to > change my mind on that sentiment when I read in the NYTimes yesterday > that a poll right before the election (for whatever polls are worth) > showed that 75% of Bush supporters believe Iraq was linked to A Qaeda. > If there's any validity to that, then 75% of 51% of this country hasn't > watched the news since September 11, 2001. They haven't read past the > front page of their local papers to find out the real stories. So if > the 51% chooses to to vote based on Core Values when there's a war, and > potentially a very dangerous war, going on...If they'd rather send > their children off to fight in the war than let two people they don't > know (I'm guessing they don't have a lot of gay friends) get married, > well....HOW can you even begin to compromise with that? -jennifer > - --- > The revolution starts now > When you rise above your fear > And tear the walls around you down > The revolution starts here > Where you work and where you play > Where you lay your money down > What you do and what you say > The revolution starts now > - Steve Earle > > From overseas the casualties > Came graphically detailed > We just hope for cooler winds > And cooler heads to prevail > - Kenny White > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:24:15 EST > From: RockinRonD@aol.com > Subject: [RS] Mandate My Arse > > Someone on this list was dead on when he/she posted that a meager 51% of the > vote is hardly a mandate. I agree completely. But it speaks to, and > underscores, the arrogance and bullying of Bush and his thugs that they would view > this small margin (by God, he didn't even win the popular vote in 2000 if you > remember) as a mandate and announce it as such. Sadly and tragically, much > of the media has been echoing the same thing, thereby aiding in convincing > Americans that there is a Bush mandate in the first place. > > We should be afraid...very afraid. Especially if the Democrats continue to > compromise. > > Like lambs to the slaughter... > > RockinRonD > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:06:58 -0600 > From: "McGuire, John" > Subject: [RS] Mandates > > Sorry-- but ever time I hear someone bring up that whole "mandate" > thing, I cant help but think about the scene from Monty Python and the > Holy Grail.... > > Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for > a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate > from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony. You can't > expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart > threw a sword at you! Oh but if I went round sayin' I was Emperor, just > because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 09:17:05 -0500 > From: "Gene Frey" > Subject: [RS] I'm like Spalding Gray > > Hey you guys, > > I am about to write about politics for the first time, and, hopefully, the > last. My apologies in advance. > > I saw this posted on, of all places, a New York Mets discussion group. It's > a pretty famous quote from Manhattanite Spalding Gray: > > I live on an island off the coast of America > > I'm beginning to feel that way myself, although my island is connected to > the late Mr. Gray's only by several bridges and tunnels. > > I am amazed by what has happened over these past few years. I simply cannot > conceive of how so many people, many of whom I genuinely like, support the > Bush administration, how they are either unwilling or unable to see past the > wafer-thin rhetoric that he and his cronies throw out there, and how they > swallow so much of it up. I suspect the basis of a lot of it is a deeply > seated racism, but I'll leave that to the Psych majors out there. > > While I don't have the time or energy to detail all of my objections to, as > Marc Marron so aptly puts it, the crypto-fascist neocon death cult of the > Cheney administration, there is one issue that makes me insane. If you know > me, you probably already know what it is - the possibility of a draft. I was > lucky enough to be a couple of years too young for Vietnam, but neither of > my kids are too young for the next draft, and that scares, angers, and > nauseates me more than I can put into words. > > I may live in a blue state, but my county has been red since Roosevelt > (Teddy, that is), and our Congressman is a Bushie beyond compare. I intend > to write a polite, well thought out letter reminding him that while our > president is a lame duck as of today, with four years to act without > consequence, he is not, and 2006 will be here in a hurry. > > It is my feeling that a lot of sofa riding chickenhawks will change their > tune in a second when it's time for their kids to suit up. Our > congresspeople have to be reminded of this, early and often. A vote on the > draft will not necessarily be a party-line slam dunk, and we have to do what > we can to let our representatives know that we will be counting their votes, > and this one will really hit home. > > Gene F. (who saw Richard on Saturday, R.E.M. last night, and will be heading > up to Saratoga for We're About 9 tonight. My three favorite artists within > seven days - almost makes this a decent week) > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 06:42:18 -0800 (PST) > From: Christy Thomas > Subject: [RS] turning bush's weaknesses into strengths... > > For those of you sick of the political speak - skip > this message... > > I, too, am struggling with the results of the > election. Throughout the campaign I have been FLOORED > by the Bush camp's ability to turn bush's weaknesses > into "strengths" and Kerry's strengths into > weaknesses!!! Bush's inability to comprehend the > nuances of an issue (his black and white, you are > either with us or against us kind of thinking) is one > of my biggest complaints about him (my list of > complaints about him is long). Whether you agree with > his final "decisions" or not - I'm just not sure how > you make sense of this approach! > > During the campaign, my very conservative uncle sent > me MANY political e-mails one in which issues or past > events were listed and the words, "GOOD" and "BAD" > were applied to each...my response at the time and my > continued outrage with the Bush supporters is that > things are rarely IF EVER that clear cut...Bush > reduces things to this point and (roughly half) of the > American people. His bull-headedness and lack of > ability to integrate complex information was > skillfully crafted into a strength by his campaign - > "STRONG leader, you know where he stands" - and as > others have mentioned, used to make Kerry seem like a > "weak flip-flopper"... > > I prefer the leader of the free world to be able to > integrate new information and adjust the course of > action based on that information. > > And how do you turn someone's ability to embrace > diplomacy and value international relations into a > weakness??? Well, the Bush campaign did just that, > didn't they? "I'll never let others decide the > direction for America, like my opponent proposes with > his "global test"" --- now I certainly wish Kerry > hadn't used that phrase as it was ready material for > this sort of nonsense...but he was basically saying > your decision-making should include being responsible > to YOUR people...AND being able to support your > decision with FACTS to the rest of the world...or was > I missing something...?...well, apparently I'm missing > MANY things as I continue to be unable to understand > the appeal of this man as a "leader"... > > > Sorry to keep going...but I'm on a roll here and will > feel better if i get this out...so...scroll on if you > like... > > ANYWAY, I was also amazed at the Republican party's > ability to accuse the Kerry camp of doing exactly what > they had been doing...as if people wouldn't say, "hey, > wait a minute - you are accusing them of doing what > YOU are doing!" ...well, they were obviously more > skilled at this than I thought - I didn't hear people > responding in that way...I heard them saying, "It is a > shame that the Kerry camp started all of these > personal attacks on the president" and "Too bad the > Kerry camp is so scared they are resorting to trying > to scare elderly Floridians into voting for them"... > Bush camp - accusing the Kerry camp of launching > personal attacks (oh, yes, i do keep forgetting all > those ads about Kerry's service record were NOT > supported by the Bush campaign)... and accusing the > Kerry camp of DISTORTING THE TRUTH AND USING FEAR TO > GET VOTES - wasn't it Dick Cheney who at the very > least STRONGLY IMPLIED that a vote for Kerry would > lead to YOU and YOUR CHILDREN being at more risk of > another terrorist attack?! And wasn't it Cheney (and > others in the Bush camp) who continued to IMPLY that > there was a direct link between 9-11 and Iraq...didn't > the 9-11 commission say otherwise? > > ok...ok...clearly I'm rambling...and could ramble on. > My initial reaction to the election was about equal > measures of sadness, fear and anger. As the anger > began to fade, I began to feel hopeless ... seems to > me that keeping some anger alive provides energy to > have things otherwise... > > Nevertheless, I do agree that we (the country) needs > to find a way to be more unified...though at this > point I believe it would take one hell of a diplomat > to bring us together...and Bush is anything but > that...is there an antonym for the word diplomat? > > OK...MORE than enough of me...back to lurking...and > trying to find ways to channel my anger into something > productive... > > best to you all, christy > > > P.S. Just wanted to say, quite nice, Chris! Thanks > for sharing your words - > > > Chris Foxwell wrote: > > > > > > This kind of just poured out of me. > > > > The change will happen any day, > > so said my stalwart friend. > > This brutal reign of crooks and goons > > must now come to an end > > But he did not know, he did not know > > the strength of fear and doubt, > > when wielded by those thugs who would > > bring freedom's flood to a drought. > > > > Still the change could happen any day, > > so maintains my steely heart. > > The shroud of night persists for now > > but someday the dawn must start > > Though steep and hard the path will be > > that climbs from this ravine, > > prevail we will, prevail we must, > > or abandon all our dreams. > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. > www.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------ > > End of shindell-list-digest V6 #244 > *********************************** ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V6 #245 ***********************************