From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V6 #244 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Friday, November 5 2004 Volume 06 : Number 244 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Re: shindell-list-digest V6 #243 [Jennifer Coia ] [RS] I'm like Spalding Gray ["Gene Frey" ] [RS] turning bush's weaknesses into strengths... [Christy Thomas Subject: [RS] Re: shindell-list-digest V6 #243 Compromise between the fractions of the country (not the government) seems like it's less and less possible. As Vanessa pointed out, the demographic Rove targeted was the Bible Belt heartland. They think the "liberal" are sinners and the devil's spawn. Unless they under go hypnosis or get struck by lightning, it is awful hard to reason with that mindset. The Right also sees the Left as educated elitist snobs and that we think they're ignorant. p a u s e It's hard to change my mind on that sentiment when I read in the NYTimes yesterday that a poll right before the election (for whatever polls are worth) showed that 75% of Bush supporters believe Iraq was linked to A Qaeda. If there's any validity to that, then 75% of 51% of this country hasn't watched the news since September 11, 2001. They haven't read past the front page of their local papers to find out the real stories. So if the 51% chooses to to vote based on Core Values when there's a war, and potentially a very dangerous war, going on...If they'd rather send their children off to fight in the war than let two people they don't know (I'm guessing they don't have a lot of gay friends) get married, well....HOW can you even begin to compromise with that? -jennifer - --- The revolution starts now When you rise above your fear And tear the walls around you down The revolution starts here Where you work and where you play Where you lay your money down What you do and what you say The revolution starts now - Steve Earle From overseas the casualties Came graphically detailed We just hope for cooler winds And cooler heads to prevail - Kenny White ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:24:15 EST From: RockinRonD@aol.com Subject: [RS] Mandate My Arse Someone on this list was dead on when he/she posted that a meager 51% of the vote is hardly a mandate. I agree completely. But it speaks to, and underscores, the arrogance and bullying of Bush and his thugs that they would view this small margin (by God, he didn't even win the popular vote in 2000 if you remember) as a mandate and announce it as such. Sadly and tragically, much of the media has been echoing the same thing, thereby aiding in convincing Americans that there is a Bush mandate in the first place. We should be afraid...very afraid. Especially if the Democrats continue to compromise. Like lambs to the slaughter... RockinRonD ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:06:58 -0600 From: "McGuire, John" Subject: [RS] Mandates Sorry-- but ever time I hear someone bring up that whole "mandate" thing, I cant help but think about the scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.... Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony. You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you! Oh but if I went round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 09:17:05 -0500 From: "Gene Frey" Subject: [RS] I'm like Spalding Gray Hey you guys, I am about to write about politics for the first time, and, hopefully, the last. My apologies in advance. I saw this posted on, of all places, a New York Mets discussion group. It's a pretty famous quote from Manhattanite Spalding Gray: I live on an island off the coast of America I'm beginning to feel that way myself, although my island is connected to the late Mr. Gray's only by several bridges and tunnels. I am amazed by what has happened over these past few years. I simply cannot conceive of how so many people, many of whom I genuinely like, support the Bush administration, how they are either unwilling or unable to see past the wafer-thin rhetoric that he and his cronies throw out there, and how they swallow so much of it up. I suspect the basis of a lot of it is a deeply seated racism, but I'll leave that to the Psych majors out there. While I don't have the time or energy to detail all of my objections to, as Marc Marron so aptly puts it, the crypto-fascist neocon death cult of the Cheney administration, there is one issue that makes me insane. If you know me, you probably already know what it is - the possibility of a draft. I was lucky enough to be a couple of years too young for Vietnam, but neither of my kids are too young for the next draft, and that scares, angers, and nauseates me more than I can put into words. I may live in a blue state, but my county has been red since Roosevelt (Teddy, that is), and our Congressman is a Bushie beyond compare. I intend to write a polite, well thought out letter reminding him that while our president is a lame duck as of today, with four years to act without consequence, he is not, and 2006 will be here in a hurry. It is my feeling that a lot of sofa riding chickenhawks will change their tune in a second when it's time for their kids to suit up. Our congresspeople have to be reminded of this, early and often. A vote on the draft will not necessarily be a party-line slam dunk, and we have to do what we can to let our representatives know that we will be counting their votes, and this one will really hit home. Gene F. (who saw Richard on Saturday, R.E.M. last night, and will be heading up to Saratoga for We're About 9 tonight. My three favorite artists within seven days - almost makes this a decent week) _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 06:42:18 -0800 (PST) From: Christy Thomas Subject: [RS] turning bush's weaknesses into strengths... For those of you sick of the political speak - skip this message... I, too, am struggling with the results of the election. Throughout the campaign I have been FLOORED by the Bush camp's ability to turn bush's weaknesses into "strengths" and Kerry's strengths into weaknesses!!! Bush's inability to comprehend the nuances of an issue (his black and white, you are either with us or against us kind of thinking) is one of my biggest complaints about him (my list of complaints about him is long). Whether you agree with his final "decisions" or not - I'm just not sure how you make sense of this approach! During the campaign, my very conservative uncle sent me MANY political e-mails one in which issues or past events were listed and the words, "GOOD" and "BAD" were applied to each...my response at the time and my continued outrage with the Bush supporters is that things are rarely IF EVER that clear cut...Bush reduces things to this point and (roughly half) of the American people. His bull-headedness and lack of ability to integrate complex information was skillfully crafted into a strength by his campaign - "STRONG leader, you know where he stands" - and as others have mentioned, used to make Kerry seem like a "weak flip-flopper"... I prefer the leader of the free world to be able to integrate new information and adjust the course of action based on that information. And how do you turn someone's ability to embrace diplomacy and value international relations into a weakness??? Well, the Bush campaign did just that, didn't they? "I'll never let others decide the direction for America, like my opponent proposes with his "global test"" --- now I certainly wish Kerry hadn't used that phrase as it was ready material for this sort of nonsense...but he was basically saying your decision-making should include being responsible to YOUR people...AND being able to support your decision with FACTS to the rest of the world...or was I missing something...?...well, apparently I'm missing MANY things as I continue to be unable to understand the appeal of this man as a "leader"... Sorry to keep going...but I'm on a roll here and will feel better if i get this out...so...scroll on if you like... ANYWAY, I was also amazed at the Republican party's ability to accuse the Kerry camp of doing exactly what they had been doing...as if people wouldn't say, "hey, wait a minute - you are accusing them of doing what YOU are doing!" ...well, they were obviously more skilled at this than I thought - I didn't hear people responding in that way...I heard them saying, "It is a shame that the Kerry camp started all of these personal attacks on the president" and "Too bad the Kerry camp is so scared they are resorting to trying to scare elderly Floridians into voting for them"... Bush camp - accusing the Kerry camp of launching personal attacks (oh, yes, i do keep forgetting all those ads about Kerry's service record were NOT supported by the Bush campaign)... and accusing the Kerry camp of DISTORTING THE TRUTH AND USING FEAR TO GET VOTES - wasn't it Dick Cheney who at the very least STRONGLY IMPLIED that a vote for Kerry would lead to YOU and YOUR CHILDREN being at more risk of another terrorist attack?! And wasn't it Cheney (and others in the Bush camp) who continued to IMPLY that there was a direct link between 9-11 and Iraq...didn't the 9-11 commission say otherwise? ok...ok...clearly I'm rambling...and could ramble on. My initial reaction to the election was about equal measures of sadness, fear and anger. As the anger began to fade, I began to feel hopeless ... seems to me that keeping some anger alive provides energy to have things otherwise... Nevertheless, I do agree that we (the country) needs to find a way to be more unified...though at this point I believe it would take one hell of a diplomat to bring us together...and Bush is anything but that...is there an antonym for the word diplomat? OK...MORE than enough of me...back to lurking...and trying to find ways to channel my anger into something productive... best to you all, christy P.S. Just wanted to say, quite nice, Chris! Thanks for sharing your words - > Chris Foxwell wrote: > > > This kind of just poured out of me. > > The change will happen any day, > so said my stalwart friend. > This brutal reign of crooks and goons > must now come to an end > But he did not know, he did not know > the strength of fear and doubt, > when wielded by those thugs who would > bring freedom's flood to a drought. > > Still the change could happen any day, > so maintains my steely heart. > The shroud of night persists for now > but someday the dawn must start > Though steep and hard the path will be > that climbs from this ravine, > prevail we will, prevail we must, > or abandon all our dreams. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V6 #244 ***********************************