From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V6 #239 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Thursday, November 4 2004 Volume 06 : Number 239 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Moral Values? [Jennifer Coia ] Re: [RS] Moral Values? [FJPQ@aol.com] [RS] Ohio [Gerry Evans ] [RS] Re: Waist Deep [Georgette deFriesse ] Re: [RS] Moral Values? [Rongrittz@aol.com] [RS] Welcome in Canada [Chris Thomas ] RE: [RS] Ohio ["Kristen Myshrall" ] [RS] Waist Deep [Bobdog25nj@aol.com] [RS] America [B Gallagher ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:13:13 -0500 From: Jennifer Coia Subject: [RS] Moral Values? What is killing me is the reports from the exit polls that say the number one factor for Bush supporters was Moral Values. I have one question: Since when has going to war and killing people under false pretense a Moral action? No, make that two questions: We are at war and with everyday, the reasons grow less and less clear, our educational system is in the sewer, our economy is barely climbing out of the sewer, he has the worst environmental record of any president, EVER, and the largest deficit, EVER...all this (and more) and people went to the polls because they want to stop GAY MARRIAGE and ABORTIONS? HELLO!! Someone pinch me. Please. Someone Pinch me. jc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 19:25:11 EST From: FJPQ@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] Moral Values? In a message dated 11/3/2004 6:32:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, jenncc@mindspring.com writes: What is killing me is the reports from the exit polls that say the number one factor for Bush supporters was Moral Values. I have one question: Since when has going to war and killing people under false pretense a Moral action? No, make that two questions: We are at war and with everyday, the reasons grow less and less clear, our educational system is in the sewer, our economy is barely climbing out of the sewer, he has the worst environmental record of any president, EVER, and the largest deficit, EVER...all this (and more) and people went to the polls because they want to stop GAY MARRIAGE and ABORTIONS? HELLO!! Someone pinch me. Please. Someone Pinch me. You forgot to list stem-cell research too... if you find the answer(s) or are able to make sense of any of this...anyone...please pinch me too. Fran ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 16:33:20 -0800 (PST) From: Gerry Evans Subject: [RS] Ohio Kristen, http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1329858,00.html Follow that link to get some ideas of what it might take to vote for Bush. See the reaction from some of your fellow countrymen to us 'limeys' who read 'The Guardian' who's only crime is caring about the future of the planet and it's inhabitants. I was sorely tempted to send a letter myself but resisted as I suspected it might cause a backlash...seems that was maybe the case in Ohio and elsewhere, though presumably not enough to affect the result in any way. Most of the rest of the world had fingers (and toes) crossed last night...all of us deserved to have our voices heard in some way. Four more years is highly likely to affect us all profoundly. Gerry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:39:24 -0500 From: Georgette deFriesse Subject: [RS] Re: Waist Deep I rarely post here, but I'm going to today. I'm convinced we're heading for a "dirty war" in the U.S. They've already started disappearing people. To counteract my own fatalism, and to encourage others to keep the faith, I've been spreading this little Wendell Berry poem around. It's one of my favorites. "February 2, 1968" In the dark of the moon, in flying snow, in the dead of winter, war spreading, families dying, the world in danger, I walk the rocky hillside, sowing clover. Georgette ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 20:25:47 -0500 From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] Moral Values? >> people went to the polls because they want to stop GAY MARRIAGE and ABORTIONS? << Sorry, Jennifer, SOMEONE has to protect the institution of marriage and stop all you fetus-murdering Democrats. Right. And by the way, anyone who says that they are against gay marriage and also says "But I have nothing against homosexuals" is simply, well, full of crap. RG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:02:12 -0800 From: Chris Thomas Subject: [RS] Welcome in Canada Well, you are all welcome in Canada - we have some refugee claims from Americans wending their way through our system now. Given the anti-gay marriage resolutions there may be an exodus of gay and lesbian folk to Canada. Certainly if the draft is reinstated our borders will be flooded! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 21:30:17 -0500 From: "Kristen Myshrall" Subject: RE: [RS] Ohio Thanks for that link. It was possibly one of the most horrifying things I've ever read and I'm understanding more and more why most of the world hates us. It's strange...i experienced some weird things while living in Florida and Kansas and am much happier back in my nice liberal Connecticut but I'm realizing that this country is seriously screwed up and we are heading down the toilet fast. One of the comments on that page sums it up.... "In my town of Springfield, I feel that there are some that consider people from the nearby cities of Columbus or Dayton, as "foreigners"- let alone someone from outside our country." No one wants to work together anymore. We are so divided I think it's almost permanent and do not see how we can pull out of this. We are one world...one big community...and as cheesy as that may sound to some people, we will never survive if we don't start working together. I've progressed from being nervous about this fate of this world to being downright petrified. - -Kristen >From: Gerry Evans >Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org >To: shindell-list@smoe.org >Subject: [RS] Ohio >Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 16:33:20 -0800 (PST) > >Kristen, > >http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1329858,00.html > >Follow that link to get some ideas of what it might >take to vote for Bush. See the reaction from some of >your fellow countrymen to us 'limeys' who read 'The >Guardian' who's only crime is caring about the future >of the planet and it's inhabitants. > >I was sorely tempted to send a letter myself but >resisted as I suspected it might cause a >backlash...seems that was maybe the case in Ohio and >elsewhere, though presumably not enough to affect the >result in any way. > >Most of the rest of the world had fingers (and toes) >crossed last night...all of us deserved to have our >voices heard in some way. Four more years is highly >likely to affect us all profoundly. > >Gerry > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. >www.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 00:05:39 EST From: Bobdog25nj@aol.com Subject: [RS] Waist Deep Thanks everybody for your kind words and sympathy. And yes, beer is good. As it happens, I leave for seattle tomorrow, where there will be lots of people who feel the same way I do. I am going to visit my two 2 year old twin nieces - whose names are.... Grace!.... and....you guessed it...Ho... naw...my other niece is named Georgia. But if "Last Fare" had come out sooner - who knows. Their Mommy and Daddy like Richard too. My nieces have developed a taste for John Hiatt - and have already been to a free John Hiatt concert in the park ( or was it at the zoo? ). Perhaps someday Richard will play the same venue and Grace will fall in love when Richard mentions her name in a song. I am told they also like The Beach Boys... and Elmo ( of course). And someone named Baby Einstein. A good treatment for a bad election result. Maybe I will buy them a canary. see ya all... maybe "lurking" for next two weeks.... bob paterson, new jersey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 00:28:20 -0500 From: B Gallagher Subject: [RS] America I think it was Benjamin Franklin who said: "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Indeed he did. Benjamin Franklin, another of my favorite Americans. Thanks Sandra. Hey everyone, I may be one of the big kidders on this loved list. But, in all seriousness... It's not just that W really won - this time. He again has the House AND the Senate. Big Time. And he's so lame duck. Let's hope there remains some balance of Power and Humility. Humanity. America is a Great Country. With many generous and caring Citizens. Don9t be so despondent, the margins are really close. A lot of people feel the way we do. And a lot of good people voted for Bush. Look, the RNC did a really dishonest job of exploiting the 9/11 attack. I hate to bring this up but, I did a lot of work at the WTC site just after the attack. And I took my family to the Pentagon in November, 2001. It bothers me when some more liberal (and I lean to Liberal) people label it a tragedy; it was an attack. But it really bothers me that the RNC has co-opted the Event and the war on terror as their own, as if no other Americans are capable of responding. My Dad worked with me at 'Ground Zero'. We shared an experience that was surreal. My dad spent his career as a teacher and Guidance Director in a public school. He felt safer with Bush. We spoke, even argued, and we don't argue, Bush vs. Kerry. I tried all the other arguments, environment, economy, civil rights... The RNC was also very successful in swaying servicemen and veterans. I went to PA last week to visit my uncle (Dad's brother), a Korean War and Vietnam Vet. He had a 'Vietnam Veterans Against Kerry' sticker on his Jeep. I don't understand that at all. Kerry went to Vietnam, engaged the enemy, and was awarded medals - though some questionable, and I understand that, and I do think some of Kerry's service record was embellished. BUT, Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, and some of the others totally avoided service. And don't even get me started on how Bush and the RNC exploit religion. It's disgusting; and many smart people are simple. Boy does that sound mean and I don't mean it to be. It's just over half of us that voted for the Bushman, and for many it was a hard choice, I don't want to think that the gulf between we Americans is all that vast Chris. Let's keep our heads up and thinking. Love You All, Bart Gallagher (631) 580-3191 ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V6 #239 ***********************************