From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V6 #184 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Saturday, September 4 2004 Volume 06 : Number 184 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [RS] Last Fare and other thoughts... [FJPQ@aol.com] [RS] last fare [Norman Johnson ] Re: [RS] Last Fare and other thoughts... [Chris Foxwell ] [RS] Che's Last Fare [B Gallagher ] [RS] Re: last fare of the day ["ptpowerlists@juno.com" Subject: [RS] last fare Bob does raise a good point about the rain not necessarily being water rain. It could be on 9-11 or could be a few days after. In my view of the song, she is already pregnant during the first ride - and the baby is born sometime in April or early May. A full-term pregnancy would push the second meeting to at least middle of June if the baby was conceived after the cab ride. Her being in the early stages of pregnancy would also support him holding her tight "like she might fall". Norman ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 20:26:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Foxwell Subject: Re: [RS] Last Fare and other thoughts... On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 Bobdog25nj@aol.com wrote: > I don't have the lyrics in front of me - so this is from memory - but what > is the line about the cruel rain about anyway? It's not about actual physical > rain - you morons - it's about the horrible rain of debris that followed in > the immediate wake of the collapse of the towers. Cement, wallboard, evaporated > computers and desks and tables - and parts of human beings. Well now. I'm all one for subjective interpretation and the listener's creative license to fashion a song's meaning however s/he pleases. In this case, though, there is a lyrical reference to actual rain, composed (mostly) of water, so I'm not sure where there's room for interpretation. Consider the lines "Out on the bridge, the traffic slowed / in the brake lights **and the wash*** / of all those truckers / heading south on 95". I actually really like your idea of a horrific rain composed of ash and debris and more terrible things, but I very much doubt that this composes the "wash" that Richard refers to. And since 9/11 was a hot sunny day, as has been pointed out, there can clearly have been no wash on the bridge, meaning that this isn't September 11. Furthermore, if the rain is indeed the terrible stuff you describe, the narrator would be adopting a distinctly sick and cruel tone when saying "And now it's spring, and where's the rain? All the wells are running dry..." That's just not funny or cute in the proposed context, and I doubt that Richard would throw something like that into an otherwise somber/touching song. Anyway...I for one don't agree that the song HAS to be on 9/11 to possess power. In fact, I think it is more powerful if it is set a few days later. To me, the imagery of a couple worn down by a nightmare week of horror, disbelief, and nonstop reliving of the attacks is more poignant by far than that of a couple staggering from the immediate shock of the event. My mind's image of the first half of the song is that of a city stooping under the weight of sadness and despair, not one that is full of frantic chaos and bustle in the immediate aftermath. > I also think the song loses a lot of its power if the couple in the last > part of the song, coming out of the church, are not the same couple from > the first part of the song - and, damn it!, Richard says they are not - > so he got that part wrong too. Gotta agree with you here. However, this is far more of a subjective issue than that of the date, since the lyrics can be interpreted either way. I also believe that they more strongly support a "same couple" view, though. I was one (of many?) who posted Richard's comments in an interview about the couples being different, and as I said then, Richard was very much prompted and led to that conclusion by the WFUV interviewer, and actually seemed rather distracted and hesitant when talking about this. - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 18:02:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Christy Thomas Subject: [RS] last fare of the day ya know...this song has certainly drawn me out of the dark corners of lurking... i don't think it matters one bit if it is the same couple or not...the song, TO ME, is about the cab diver "getting" that hope and grace live on...and i've always thought the song was about two couples - even when i first heard it live a while ago...(which reminds me - Richard - PLEASE come to Texas!!!!!!! the Cactus Cafe misses you!) and i don't think ANY of richard's songs NEED to be interpreted literally...(re: the rain, the wash)...they CAN be and that is fine by me...one great thing about great art (which i believe this is)...it is there for all of us...there is no right or wrong...even IF richard intended it a certain way...once it is "out here" it is up for interpretation (in my opinion). in any case, the song is lovely....and i do think it "trips" when he says "the heavens give"...BECAUSE he rhymed the chorus there previously...but...as i've over-analyzed in my previous posts...that has become fine to me...still grabs my attention...still interrupts the flow of the song...but, as someone else mentioned, richard is SO meticulous in his writing that i believe he intended for it to be this way... okay...certainly more than enough of me ... anyone else love the "tone" of richard's voice in Whipporwill when he says, "i tell myself that i'm alright, its not so bad a place. Truth is that I'm just scared to death..." i LOVE it! later, c __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 23:09:58 -0400 From: B Gallagher Subject: [RS] Che's Last Fare Peter Booth wrote: "I also think that it HAS to be the > same couple because in the story as _I_ hear it, they go home on 9/11 > and then to comfort one another the couple makes love, and nine months > later, in the spring their child (Hope or Grace) is born and is named > to commemorate the time when she was conceived."Also, at the beginning of the song he's holding her as if she might fall if he let go. That's gotta be ON 9/11, not later that week." AYE AYE AYE! Listen to the album again. He has to hold her because She is already pregnant (the queasy first trimester) by the Stowaway who is coming Stateside to find her again after being stranded in BA where his luggage was stolen at the airport by thieves using diversion tactics. After being caught strolling about the deck without a ticket (stupid moon), he is held in custody for almost six months in Dade County. Thankfully, Janet Reno intervenes on his behalf and calls John Asscroft who thought he was a Che Guerilla, but orders him released just in time for the birth. After all Janet reasons, Ernesto has been dead since 1967, killed by jealous Bolivians when he wouldn't hand over his Cubans and besides, you can get those T-shirts at Banana Republic. Somehow...fill in the blank here...He gets back up to NYC where he hocks his flashlight for some flowers and balloons from an unlicensed street vendor. Gets to the hospital, but the big nurse won't let him help with the birth 'cause he didn't attend the Lamaze classes (stupid custody in Dade County). The blanket (yes the very one from the cargo hold) is wrapped around the baby and the cabbie passes up The Donald to pick them up and drive them home. And if the child were conceived on 9/11 I would Hope that Grace would be born in June, which I consider a Summer month, though some of June is still technically Spring, and more like Winter in BA. The only thing I don't get (besides how he gets from Dade to NYC) is, Does the Cuban guy give him back his picture? Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 05:17:19 GMT From: "ptpowerlists@juno.com" Subject: [RS] Re: last fare of the day Christy wrote -- >>i don't think it matters one bit if it is the same couple or not...the song, TO ME, is about the cab diver "getting" that hope and grace live on...<< I agree... it's all about the cab driver. While the possibility of the couple in vignette #1 being the same as in vignette #2 is worth considering, it makes no difference in the transformation in the life of the cabbie. Besides, it's too pat. Pat ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V6 #184 ***********************************