From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V5 #141 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Tuesday, June 24 2003 Volume 05 : Number 141 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Well, he's half right ["Gene Frey" ] [RS] Hideous Grin and the new album [adam plunkett ] [RS] well, Gene... [Jim Colbert ] [RS] Hideous Gritz. [Rongrittz@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:07:09 -0400 From: "Gene Frey" Subject: [RS] Well, he's half right Hey you guys, Ron G., listing potential songs for the inevitable new CD, included: > > Hideous Grin (which RS told me at the Knitting Factory is NOT dead) I thought that one was put away for good. And, I dare say, properly so. Unless it has found its way through an extensive rewrite, it was not, imo, up to Richard's standard, although admittedly I only heard it the one time at the Emelin. The fact that he is considering bringing it back may indicate a lack of worthwhile new material. I hope that is not the case. By the way, the first mention of the phrase 'Hideous Grin' in the archives comes on 3/18/01, in Ron G's review of the second Emelin show of that spring, the one that was recorded for the 'Courier' CD. And I quote: >>The new song, BTW, is called "Hideous Grin," and it's, um, interesting. << However, Pat Power and Norman Johnson report him singing 'Who's In Charge Here" as early as March 10. That seemed to be the title people picked up from the lyrics. From May 11, of the same year (and remember, this is over two years ago), also by Ron G. >>As far as I know, the only new song he's written since "Somewhere Near >>Paterson" is that song he debuted back in March, "Hideous Grin." But he >>hasn't been playing it recently, and I asked John Putnam about it at >>Makor, and he indicated that Richard wasn't really happy enough with it to >>keep playing it. So we'll see if it ever sees the light of day again, >>although I can't think of too many songs that Richard has unveiled to the >>public, only to bury forever. More often than not, what happens is that >>they become other songs, as happened with the song that eventually became >>"Money for Floods." << It will be interesting to see if the song does make it, and how much it will have changed over the past two years. I'm not sure I really remember that much about it, anyway. On a completely different subject, I don't think I've ever gone all the way back to the beginning of this list to see how it began, although I am very surprised that I have not. Well, in looking up the 'Grin' information, I was struck to do just that, and found this note from Sally Green, written the second day the list was open. Allow me to say 'Thanks,' in advance, and I REALLY hope you haven't been holding your breath. >>I have to say that I *love* "The Weather" on 'Reunion Hill'. It's really >>catchy, and it also makes me feel really sentimental. "Here's to all the >>moms and dads, still holding on together." Has Richard played it live yet >>during the tour? I'd just looooooooove to hear it at the Ark. :) << Gene F. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:47:03 -0700 (PDT) From: adam plunkett Subject: [RS] Hideous Grin and the new album I should note that before you read this that I have not heard "Hideous Grin" yet. Gene said that he feared that Richard's writing was lacking a little and that is why this song may back be in the mix for his next album. It is my opinion that every album has a few of these songs - songs that are decent but are not as good as the rest. For every "Wisteria", "Next Best Western", and "Fishing", we have "Lazy", "Grocer's Broom" and "Castaway". Not all the songs are top level - that is what happens when artists record an album every few years. An example: In my opinion, Richard's best album beginning to end is "Somewhere Near Patterson". With that said, 2 songs on that album that he penned are lesser quality - - "Grocer's Broom" and "Spring". They are not bad songs and Richard did a fine job of musically fitting them in. ("Spring" may not be the best song lyrically but musically it's superb but from just hearing the song live I wouldn't think of it as a good possibility for an album.) Of course, the greatest of albums are top-notch top to bottom but I believe that rarely happens. I was listening to some old Bob Dylan the other day and featured some songs that fit the mold of a lesser quality song...and he is one of the greatest and, more importantly, prolific songwriters ever. As long there are a good number of very good to great songs, he will have a good album. "Last Fare of the Day", "I Am", and "Before You Go" are all great, I think. Two other covers to keep in mind: I have heard him do "Man of Constant Sorrow" as well as a Gram Parsons tune, both of which were wonderfully done. Adam __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:28:03 EDT From: ThisWasPompeii@aol.com Subject: [RS] Getting it right (Was: Hideous Grin and the new album) In a message dated 06/24/2003 11:48:19 AM Central Daylight Time, adam_plunkett@yahoo.com writes: > For every "Wisteria", "Next Best Western", and "Fishing", we have "Lazy", > "Grocer's Broom" and "Castaway". Favorite songs vary from person to person, and that interests me. I'm in agreement with you about "Lazy," "Grocer's Broom" and "Castaway," but if I recall correctly I saw someone list "Castaway" as one of their favorites. "Fishing" seems to be on everyone's list of favorites. Occasionally an artist just plain gets it right. Marcel Duchamp believed artists create only one--or perhaps two--masterpieces in a lifetime, but because we have a star system every little scribble Picasso did is considered a masterpiece. One reason Shindell stands out among songwriters is because he has way more than one or two candidates for masterpiece status. From the artist's perspective, he just has to keep working. At the outset he doesn't know how good his next work will be. Think of Gregory Peck. You can bet that a hundred years from now people will still be talking about his performance as Atticus Finch. Donna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:09:31 -0400 From: "Gene Frey" Subject: Re: [RS] So? Hey you guys, Adam replied: >>Gene said that he feared that Richard's writing was lacking a little and >>that is why this song may back be in the mix for his next album. << That wasn't exactly what I meant, although I can see how you read it that way. I was referring more to the quantity, I guess, then the quality, of new songs available for the new CD. For Richard to pick up a never recorded song that he hasn't played publicly (as far as I know) in nearly two years indicates one of two things, most likely: - - He needs to fill some space on a CD - - He liked the idea for the song, but didn't like the way it turned out, and he has had the time to tweak it into something he likes better. As I said, I hope it is the latter. Gene F. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:12:15 -0400 From: Jim Colbert Subject: [RS] well, Gene... Gene queried: so I guess it's time to ask: Any information about a new CD? Hey, Gene, you could check the website... bwhwahahahahahahahahahahahaha.... I'm with you on the way Hideous Grin was back in the day... if it evolves, whatever, but it just didn't appeal to me at all. I'm not saying good bad or otherwise, just that it would doubtless be one I'd usually skip over. (but, uh, I personally like castaway and grocer's broom...) (BTW, I've never enjoyed the studio version of fishing as much as any of the live versions I've heard him do. It took me hearing this live to really come back to appreciate the song) There aren't a lot of albums I don't normally skip some stuff on in everyday listening... Late for the sky, deeper well, gunfigher ballads and trail songs and vern gosdin's chiseled in stone come to mind as rare exceptions. Then again, that makes it fun sometimes to come back to the songs you don't always listen to... Jim Colbert somewhere near the nittany lion shrine and wondering why the sky is not gray and nothing wet is coming from it... http://www.mysongwriters.com/JimColbert/JimColbert.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:33:46 EDT From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: [RS] Hideous Gritz. [Gene says (re: "Hideous Grin")] >> I thought that one was put away for good. And, I dare say, properly so. Unless it has found its way through an extensive rewrite, it was not, imo, up to Richard's standard, although admittedly I only heard it the one time at the Emelin. << I didn't think it was BAD, as much as I thought it was DIFFERENT. Certainly interesting enough lyrically to warrant a second chance, I reckon. >> He needs to fill some space on a CD << Sometimes, though, when Richard is in the studio, and needs to crank out something to fill up a CD, he comes out with something like "The Weather." But you don't like that song much, do ya, Gene? ;-) [Donna] >> Favorite songs vary from person to person, and that interests me. I'm in agreement with you about "Lazy," "Grocer's Broom" and "Castaway," but if I recall correctly I saw someone list "Castaway" as one of their favorites. << Interestingly (well, it's interesting to ME), my "skip" songs usually tend to be the second song on each CD. Never was a big fan of "Castaway." "Fishing" on "Blue Divide" can't hold a candle to the live version(s). I believe "Smiling" to be the worst song on any of Richard's CDs. And "Abuelita" just ain't my cup of meat. Hell, even on "Courier," I skip "Memory of You." I'm suggesting, right now, that Richard simply skip the formalities on his next CD, and don't put on a second song at all. Go right from #1 to #3. [Jim] >> There aren't a lot of albums I don't normally skip some stuff on in everyday listening... Late for the sky << "Late for the Sky" indeed. My favorite album of all time. The only other "no skip" albums I can think of off the top of my head are David Wilcox's "How Did You Find Me Here" and Patty Griffin's "Living With Ghosts." [Adam] It is my opinion that every album has a few of these songs - songs that are decent but are not as good as the rest. For every "Wisteria", "Next Best Western", and "Fishing", we have "Lazy", "Grocer's Broom" and "Castaway". Not all the songs are top level - that is what happens when artists record an album every few years. See, I'd think that's what might happen when an artist cranks out an album every 18 months or so; "Somewhere Near Paterson" came out three and a half years ago. This is not to say that just because Richard writes painstakingly, that every song must be a gem. On the other hand, Dave Carter probably left more songs unrecorded than Richard has ever written, and he's got a pretty good hit-to-miss ratio. Some songs just work for ya, and some just don't. >> "Last Fare of the Day", "I Am", and "Before You Go" are all great, I think. << Not so sure about the last two (they seem to be too topical for me), but I gotta tell ya, I am absolutely obsessed with "Last Fare of the Day." Obsessed. The "he says Hope and she says Grace" line slays me every time. RG, still doing the "Will I or won't I?" FRFF coin-flip. ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V5 #141 ***********************************