From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V5 #89 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Monday, April 14 2003 Volume 05 : Number 089 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] RS/JS/C3 [Jim Colbert ] [RS] Politics Redux ["scott shindell" ] Re: [RS] Politics Redux ["Shelley DePaul" ] Re: [RS] Politics Redux [Rongrittz@aol.com] Re: [RS] Politics Redux [ThisWasPompeii@aol.com] Re: [RS] Politics Redux [Vanessa C Wills ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 08:30:22 -0400 From: Jim Colbert Subject: [RS] RS/JS/C3 > >>I know RS has done Merle and George Jones covers at times- anyone ever > >>hear him do any Cash? > > Why, sure Jim, don't you remember when the 3 of them (DW, LK, RS) were doing Cry, Cry, Cry as their encore back during the C3 tour? :-) They would each do a verse and usually have the opener join them and sing a verse. > Well, actually I meant Richard solo... Although now that you mention it, I have a tape where they introduce this (cry cry cry) and mention they didn't even know it was a song until someone pointed it out to them... I found that kinda hard to believe, Richard in particular seems to know a LOT of old country, and that wasn't exactly an obscure one. But whaddevah. jpc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:09:36 -0400 From: "scott shindell" Subject: [RS] Politics Redux I spoke with Richard the other day, and he does not agree with my assertion that we keep our discussions here to just music. I was trying to limit the development of rancour, but it appears as if I inadvertently ended the discussion. So, by all means, chime in. Richard wants people to share and discuss their ideas and feelings about the war, our nation and the world. Scott Scott Shindell Red Square Communications 8932 Griffin Way Pikesville, MD 21208-1423 sshindell@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 10:05:57 -0400 From: "Shelley DePaul" Subject: Re: [RS] Politics Redux I know I'VE had a bit of a hard time keeping quiet on the whole issue of the war but then anyone who has read my posts knows what my feelings are. The main thing is, though, as I said to Jim privately a few days ago, I don't know how we can begin to discuss world human rights issues if we can't first treat our own little list community with love and respect. Somehow I think it starts there. When we get sarcastic and nasty with each other it makes me wince in the same way I do when I see little children's limbs being blown off on t.v. Which is why I've just stayed out of it. I haven't read the post of anyone here that isn't a nice person and whose passions aren't aroused by a basic feeling of concern and love for others. We just disagree, maybe, on the solution. If we can't win THIS war peacefully then we may as well just leave Baghdad alone. On another note, Yes! I think that BAGHDAD tuning shows lots of possibilities. (You KNOW I couldn't leave this one alone. I'm an open tuning freak) I already have a Bb tuning so getting down to the B is no problem. Don't have a seven-string guitar so we'll just drop the H which essentially would have to just be another A anyway. And we're off! Whaddya think Ron? ; ) Peace and blessings in abundance, Shelley - ----- Original Message ----- From: "scott shindell" To: Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 9:09 AM Subject: [RS] Politics Redux > I spoke with Richard the other day, and he does not agree with my assertion > that we keep our discussions here to just music. I was trying to limit the > development of rancour, but it appears as if I inadvertently ended the > discussion. So, by all means, chime in. Richard wants people to share and > discuss their ideas and feelings about the war, our nation and the world. > > Scott > > > > Scott Shindell > Red Square Communications > 8932 Griffin Way > Pikesville, MD 21208-1423 > sshindell@hotmail.com > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 10:35:41 -0400 From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] Politics Redux >> The main thing is, though, as I said to Jim privately a few days ago, I don't know how we can begin to discuss world human rights issues if we can't first treat our own little list community with love and respect. << Well, that's kinda sorta the point. I don't think anyone was saying that we SHOULDN'T talk about world events, particularly since Richard has never been shy about making it song fodder. It's just that if it overwhelms the discussion, it crowds out those who joined to talk about the music of Richard Shindell. But more importantly, it has to stay civil. Like I said recently, things got so out of hand on the Patty Griffin list that the moderator had to actually close the list until people cooled off. I'd hate to see that happen here. So, anything's fair game, but keep it nice! RG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:39:49 EDT From: ThisWasPompeii@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] Politics Redux I usually find myself agreeing with liberal points of view, but I'm too much of a contrarian to follow blindly. I often keep quiet on politics because I don't know any right-wingers, and my friends (all liberals) are 100% certain they're correct and, judging from what they say, anyone who disagrees is not only wrong but perhaps immoral and/or stupid to boot. I believe all war is wrong, that no war is "just." However, I acknowledge such a position is an ideal, not a reality. Regarding the war in Iraq, I take the long view. My friends point out the civilian casualties, but they never counterbalance with what it's like to live (and die) for decades under a military dictator. I don't think we'll know whether or not this war was a mistake until time has passed and historians have examined the consequences. Although I'm too pacifist and existential to take a firm position on the war in Iraq, I welcome the input of anti-war protesters. Without them, we might have more civilian casualties or someone almost as bad as Saddam to replace him. Thanks to voices of dissent, our government has to keep on its toes. I'll end with a quote from a letter in Harper's Magazine (April) by a Thomas A. Glass: "Here's the thing:...the fact that the vast majority of Americans base their views about Iraq on what's under their own noses, and not on universal moral principles, has almost no relation to what post-modern thinkers have done to the credibility of universal humanism. Academics need t o begin to admit that their gum-flapping is little more than a sideshow. The simple truth is that we are still five parts animal to three parts philosopher. We are hairless apes, and we are wired for tribalism. Progressive thinking has never found a place for this truth. The American right has. It's as simple as that." Thank you for opening up this topic, Scott. I would love to debate with friends, but (see above) I don't dare. I used to argue with my communist brother, but I always seemed to lose, usually with his declaration of something like: "Have you read the Constitution? I have!" Donna PS: My favorite RS anti-war song: "You Stay Here." Haunting and beautiful. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:10:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Vanessa C Wills Subject: Re: [RS] Politics Redux I'm calmer now ... What bothers me most about some of the pro-war or anti-anti-war-protester comments I've seen on this and other lists is that a caricature of the liberal standpoint is frequently set up like a strawman and then struck down. It's unfair, for example, to assume that the standpoint of those who are anti-war will be so thin and weak as to be challenged by the fact that many Iraqi people are happy to have Saddam out of power. I, for one, am not that silly; my (liberal-minded) thoughts on the issue have room for the claim that this war can have some positive effects. It disturbs me when I see "liberal" used synonymously with "post-modernist ivory-towered simpleton." On the same day that a post appeared on this list about what has been called the liberation of Baghdad, I had earlier posted into my blog about those events, and insofar as happiness at the sight of smiling Iraqi faces was concerned, had made very similar comments. It frustrated me to read a post that seemed to suggest that Baghdad's liberation had somehow "showed" all us anti-war protesters; as though somehow our position never had room for the moral facts that Saddam is/was evil and that the Iraqi people are better off without him. I feel as though there is this perception out there that all liberals are completely out of touch with moral reality, and if you just showed us all how bad some people are, we'd immediately change our minds. I have to admit, that struck a sore point with me because I happen to think that to lose sight of the fact that Saddam is very bad is to flirt with evil, oneself. I'm also just a big defender of the principle of charity; the mere fact that another person has an opinion that conflicts with one's own is no reason to think he/she must be making some very basic mistake (like not noticing that people prefer not to be governed by Saddam Hussein). - --Vanessa ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V5 #89 **********************************