From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V5 #70 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Monday, March 31 2003 Volume 05 : Number 070 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] EVIAN [Openingstar@aol.com] Re: [RS] EVIAN [Rongrittz@aol.com] [RS] getting on [Patience9@aol.com] [RS] categorically... [Jim Colbert ] RE: [RS] EVIAN [adam31380@netscape.net (Adam Plunkett)] Re: [RS] EVIAN [ThisWasPompeii@aol.com] RE: [RS] EVIAN [Rongrittz@aol.com] [RS] Knitting Factory [Elwestrand ] [RS] EVIAN and SOTW suggestion [Norman Johnson ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:48:13 EST From: Openingstar@aol.com Subject: [RS] EVIAN Evian I am coming out of lurkdom. I don't know that this post will make me popular. I always enjoy Richard's performances. I have been to many. Despite what one may feel about the war in Iraq and Bush....the EVIAN references left me feeling offended. There are real live flesh and blood people dying on both sides. However misguided one feels our presence there is...our troops BELIEVE they are defending our right to assemble peacefully and enjoy an evening of beautiful music and our laying their only lives on the line for their belief... and Richard's right to earn those dollars and bring them back to Argentina. IMHO ...I felt it was disrespectful, distasteful and , sorry Richard, I do love you...but ignorant really to keep at it as he did. I did not enjoy his performance from the usual depth of my soul. Visions of pieces of bloody uniforms of American soldiers and tortured body parts kept flashing in front of that EVIAN bottle. Sincerely and Respectfully, Bonnie Margolis ( who was teargassed at the Pentagon in the 60's) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:56:25 EST From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] EVIAN << Despite what one may feel about the war in Iraq and Bush....the EVIAN references left me feeling offended. >> I'm not sure Richard was making any value judgments about the war, just about the ludicrous opinion that we should be boycotting anything French. I mean, the congressman who suggested that we should change the name of french fries to "freedom fries" has waaaaaay too much time on his hands, as well as a warped sense of priorities. As Richard said on Saturday, the Cold War was worse than anything that's happening in Iraq this week, but they didn't stop serving Russian dressing in the congressional cafeteria, did they? RG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:10:41 EST From: Patience9@aol.com Subject: [RS] getting on I have a friend who wants to get on this list and I forgot how to do it...what do u do? lindy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:43:03 -0500 From: Jim Colbert Subject: [RS] categorically... > Richard was pushing French water...plan on seeing him in some Evian ads in > the upcoming months. Also...any indication that he is "pudgey" should be > dismissed. That isnt what I was seeing last night. He's got kind of thick > neck like Cary Grant.. its all an optical illusion. :-) "...categorically, the best bottled water I've ever drank..." (that's a take off on the ads for cFox guitars that he used to be in, for those who kinda missed what little joke there was there..) jim colbert ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:23:40 -0500 From: adam31380@netscape.net (Adam Plunkett) Subject: RE: [RS] EVIAN Bonnie, Your points are well-written but also don't we believe in free speech and the right to dissent? I believe someone can dissent without automatically being disrespectful to those dying. And as Ron points out, it wasn't a very strong statement. I do not know what other catorgory people here would catogorize Richard's music, but other folk singers/singer-wongwriters I have seen since the war's beginning have made much stronger statements than apparent references to Evian. On a similar note, what do people think Richard's take on war is? He writes about it so much. From "Reunion Hill" to "Arrowhead" to "Things I Have Seen" to "You Stay Here". I would say he is against war in general but many, maybe even Richard himself, would disagree. To the administrator: I know many lists do not like political tangents. I apologize if this was unacceptable..I linked it to Richard as best as possible. :) - -Adam Openingstar@aol.com wrote: >Evian >I am coming out of lurkdom. I don't know that this post will make me popular. > >I always enjoy Richard's performances. I have been to many. >Despite what one may feel about the war in Iraq and Bush....the EVIAN >references left me feeling offended. There are real live flesh and blood >people dying on both sides. However misguided one feels our presence there >is...our troops BELIEVE they are defending our right to assemble peacefully >and enjoy an evening of beautiful music and our laying their only lives on >the line for their belief... and Richard's right to earn those dollars and >bring them back to Argentina. IMHO ...I felt it was disrespectful, >distasteful and , sorry Richard, I do love you...but ignorant really to keep >at it as he did. I did not enjoy his performance from the usual depth of my >soul. Visions of pieces of bloody uniforms of American soldiers and tortured >body parts kept flashing in front of that EVIAN bottle. >Sincerely and Respectfully, >Bonnie Margolis ( who was teargassed at the Pentagon in the 60's) > __________________________________________________________________ Try AOL and get 1045 hours FREE for 45 days! http://free.aol.com/tryaolfree/index.adp?375380 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 for FREE! Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promos=380455 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:05:42 EST From: ThisWasPompeii@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] EVIAN In a message dated 03/31/2003 9:25:09 AM Central Standard Time, adam31380@netscape.net writes: > On a similar note, what do people think Richard's take on war is? From his lyrics I would guess he's a pacifist, as are many people who have read about or experienced what war really is on the ground level. When I was a teenager, I read All Quiet on the Western Front and Hiroshima. After that I thought: nothing in the world could ever be worth this. That said, I believe we're all born with the instinct to fight and kill (monsters of the id: see Forbidden Planet or read The Tempest). War is as old as pre-history. As a friend of mine likes to say: it's not so long ago that we all crawled out of the sea. I've been watching the TV coverage. Some of the soldiers are absolutely in their element. Very brave, very idealistic. My heart broke when I saw the footage of the POWs. Eighteen months ago I was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. I looked into the eyes of these soldiers and wanted to say: I know how you feel. To have no control over your fate, to know everything could turn on a dime. Donna in KC http://www.ovca.net/Garden/garden.cfm?page=6 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:39:26 -0500 From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: RE: [RS] EVIAN >> To the administrator: I know many lists do not like political tangents. I apologize if this was unacceptable..I linked it to Richard as best as possible. << This administrator has no problem with political tangents as long as they have something to do with Richard Shindell and his music, and as long as we keep it civil. I'd hate to have happen here what I've seen happening on other lists, like the Dar-list, where talk about the war and politics has almost completely overtaken any other discussion. For chrissakes, there's someone on the Dar-list from France, and HE'S practically been personally attacked, as if he's representative of his entire country. Or even worse, there's the Patty Griffin list, where discussion about the war became so personal and vitriolic that the administrator actually closed the list for three days so that people could cool off. And, to your point, it's not like Richard doesn't write about the subject in many of his songs. RG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:53:53 -0500 From: Elwestrand Subject: [RS] Knitting Factory Its funny that this weekend, at both ends of the country, RS listers were loathing the Knitting Factory. I went to see Cheryl Wheeler, at the new Knitting Factory in Hollywood, and was very unimpressed with the venue. It is cold, impersonal, and the service was absolutely crappy. Its a very industrial space and just not quite right for our folkies. However, its not too far from my house so I am sure I will end up there again. Next time, however, I will go at peace with the fact that I may never see a waitress or a smile.... Lisa Waiting to see if Dar's LA date is ever confirmed. If not I get to see RS. I can't believe they are here on the same day. Ridiculous for our part of the country (I mean they both avoid us about half of the time!). ________________________________________________ Get your own "800" number Voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 18:02:07 -0500 From: Norman Johnson Subject: [RS] EVIAN and SOTW suggestion For what it's worth, I'm glad that Richard made those references to Evian. It wasn't disrespectful to the men and women fighting in Iraq; it had nothing to do with them. As Ron said, it was directed at the very silly acts by some people in congress who have way too much time on their hands. When we rebuild Iraq, we're going to need help from the French as well as our other friends and allies. We also need the French to help in the war against terror. Sec. of State Powell has said as much. Even superpowers need friends and spitting on people it isn't a good way to win friends. As for Richard's views about war, I think his songs speak for themselves. They are from the vantage point of the individual caught up in the war. On that note, I have a SOTW suggestion- Sparrows Point. Norman ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V5 #70 **********************************