From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V4 #259 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Tuesday, September 3 2002 Volume 04 : Number 259 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Subject: [RS] Christian background [Openingstar@aol.com] [RS] Re: Christian background [ptpower@juno.com] [RS] Re: Christian background [Roxylee ] [RS] Eager to see you [mlcwical ] Re: Subject: [RS] Christian background [Deb Woodell ] [RS] Re: Christian background [Rongrittz@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 08:13:37 EDT From: Openingstar@aol.com Subject: Subject: [RS] Christian background re: Christian Background I think I can ease you through this here Susan...Years ago I used to have a LOT of resentment if songs were full of Christian illusions. It set off a chain reaction in me that were replete with images of Jews being run out of countries, tortured and slaughtered and, in the fundamentalist Christian theology,doomed to eternal damnation,because they wouldn't accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. (as if there is only ONE "true" way to know Gd). Now when I hear these songs, I feel deep meaning and love because the beliefs I hold are that no matter the negative historical and manmade disasters perpetrated in the name of a Higher Power ....any beauty, poetry, song of love , struggle or longing to know Gd and feel the Peace , Strength, Healing and Oneness with ALL that is Good....well, that is something I can relate to no matter what one chooses to call It....It's essence is all the same. We as humans just approach it differently. So when I hear these references in Richard's songs, I don't feel 'different' or excluded. I did take a course to learn more about Jesus. It wasn't about converting. It was about 'getting' the references and knowing this part of our culture. And it helped clear up a lot of misconceptions for me and clarify concepts I didn't understand. Just, humbly, I hope, coming out of lurkdom and offering my 2 cents. L'Shana Tova A Sweet and Happy New Year to All. Bonnie Margolis (who always brings Richard atomic fireballs) Stamford, CT In a message dated 9/3/02 4:55:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org writes: > Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 23:17:42 -0700 > From: "Susan Krauss" > Subject: [RS] Christian background > > My problem is that I don't know enough about Jesus and Christianity to > understand all of Richard's songs. When I first heard "Love Before You Go" > it made absolutely no sense to me. I thought it was a love song but the > sequence and language just wasn't logical. I couldn't figure it out until I > asked here and someone explained how it was about Jesus and explained the > whole thing to me. > > I think that those of you who are raised Christian, even if you don't > believe now or don't attend Church now, have a language and background which > is similar to Richard's so the Christian allusions at least make sense to > you. Since I've never actually read the New Testament, I miss a lot. > > I've mentioned before (though I don't know if I've done it here), that David > Wilcox's music was ruined for me during a concert he gave in San Francisco > in about 1996. I'd been listening to him from the beginning and had seen > him live before. During this show, it became evident from the introductions > and stories between songs that all the songs I heard as love songs between > two people were really songs about loving Jesus. I couldn't hear those > songs in the same way I had - I kept hearing David's intent. It's fine for > David to love Jesus but I'm still mad at him for introducing the songs in a > way that made it impossible for me to keep my interpretations. And since > Jesus plays no part in my life, a love song for Jesus just doesn't hold my > interest. > > I can enjoy "Mary Magdalene" and I can even enjoy a lot of Gospel. Songs > about history or re-interpretation of a Biblical story are fine. Songs > about the joy people find in their beliefs (like much of Gospel) are great. > Songs which try to tell me that I have to believe what the songwriter > believes turn me off completely. > > > L'Shanah Tovah, ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 13:13:30 GMT From: ptpower@juno.com Subject: [RS] Re: Christian background Susan wrote: >>My problem is that I don't know enough about Jesus and Christianity to understand all of Richard's songs.<< How many of us really understand anything about truckdriving? INS interrogations? Civil war soldiering? Certainly, it helps to have some point of reference about *any* of Richard's subjects (and maybe only a *little* research would provide that point of reference), but it's not prerequisite. Pat ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 10:53:33 -0400 From: Roxylee Subject: [RS] Re: Christian background >Susan K. sez: > >My problem is that I don't know enough about Jesus and Christianity to >understand all of Richard's songs. Susan, I'd be happy to give you my perspective an any song that has a Christian theme. Please feel free to write to me. >I've mentioned before (though I don't know if I've done it here), that David >Wilcox's music was ruined for me... During this show, it became >evident from the introductions and stories between songs that all >the songs I heard as love songs between two people were really songs >about loving Jesus. Well, gee, thanks! I didn't know this. Seriously, I just have his "best of" CD and I'll have to listen to the love songs again and get the other perspective. Susan, I recall feeling much the same way after listening to Cheryl Wheeler's love songs, then discovering she was singing them to another woman. After realizing there was no gender implied in the lyrics, I got beyond it. For example, I can hear _Arrow_ and relate it to my experience and not hers. I hope you can do the same and enjoy DW's love songs. :-) >Songs which try to tell me that I have to believe what the songwriter >believes turn me off completely. Which songs have you heard that are blatant like that? I can't think of any right now... Anyway, I know what you felt. Shalom, Roxy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 12:20:38 -0400 From: mlcwical Subject: [RS] Eager to see you ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:14:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Deb Woodell Subject: Re: Subject: [RS] Christian background Susan wrote, > > My problem is that I don't know enough about Jesus > and Christianity to > > understand all of Richard's songs. It's fine for > > David [Wilcox] to love Jesus but I'm still mad at him for > introducing the songs in a > > way that made it impossible for me to keep my > interpretations. And since > > Jesus plays no part in my life, a love song for > Jesus just doesn't hold my > > interest. I'm someone who has left Christianity for Buddhism (and even Taoism, right now). But my home life has a large Christian presence, because my partner is about to be ordained as a deacon in the Episcopal Church. For me, it is about admiring her for her chosen path, and at the same time, believing in my own set of beliefs. As for the reference that I neglected to include about having not read the New Testament, I would ask, What's stopping you? I think that if one reads the book with a more liberal, less literal interpretation, there are good things in it. As a for instance, I've had discussions with a co-worker about the idea of "living," or following the tenets of, the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7, I believe) (some highlights: turning the other cheek, blessed are the peacemakers.) I think living up to the ideals of that passage are noble for anyone of any religion, or anyone with no religion. Deb ===== You can take the rock band away from the girl and think you've tamed her. But, she'll just pick up an acoustic, give you that innocent little girl grin, quietly laugh and say? "Nevah!" Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 22:47:05 EDT From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: [RS] Re: Christian background Here's two cents from Richard on the subject, from an interview on Boston's WUMB, 7/11/96. The subject: Richard and divinity school. Richard: I'm a real romantic, and it was a flight of romantic fancy to go to seminary, I suppose. It was fascinating. I mean, from an intellectual point of view, it was very interesting. But from a career point of view or a real practical point of view, it wasn't exactly a good move for me. You know, seminary's a tough place. If you're not fully convinced of what you're doing, it will, you know, get beaten out of you, sooner than later. Interviewer: It must be wonderful preparation for songwriting Richard: It is. It's true. I mean, Leonard Cohen, who's one of my favorite songwriters, uses a lot of religious imagery in his songs - I think he's a Buddhist, but he uses a lot of Judeo-Christian imagery - and he says it's because when you use that kind of imagery, it's like shorthand. You know, you say "Lazarus," and everybody knows exactly what you're talking about . . . or most people do. They may have different ideas of what that means for them, it may evoke different things, but . . . or you say "Judas," and that has a whole world . . . and so it's like for him, a shorthand. All he has to do is say that one word, and he can take care of a whole world of references that it might have taken seven verses to come up with, or whatever. So it is a very rich, narrative tradition, full of all sorts of stories that people can attach themselves to, and hang their hats on, so it does come out in songs every once in a while. But it's really just a question of the stories, of having acquainted myself with the stories, but then again, I didn't need to go to seminary to do that, I mean, I was brought up that way . . . and so, you know, the stories are what are important to me. RG ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V4 #259 ***********************************