From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V4 #256 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Sunday, September 1 2002 Volume 04 : Number 256 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [RS] Re: spirituality in music [FJPQ@aol.com] Re: [RS] Re: spirituality in music ["Sandra J. Smith" ] [RS] Richard and The Bible [patrick t power ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 08:08:17 EDT From: FJPQ@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] Re: spirituality in music << Elizabeth wrote: > > I feel uncomfortable because Christianity is > such a dominant part of our culture, and so being > reminded of that can create a feeling of > differentness, of being outside of something, > that is not very pleasant. > Then Linda said: >That is all I ever meant to discuss when I put my original question to Rabbi Lea Gavrieli. >> I remain unconvinced of this thought that Christianity is actively being foisted down people's throats. My Church (United Methodist) is in a community where it becomes increasingly difficult to exist... the community is largely Muslim, but we are accepting of the changes and try to partner towards positive change for the community. I also live a few towns away from a town where when a Presbyterian church burned down last year, the folks at the synagogue were of the first to offer their sanctuary to these Christians so that they could have a place to worship. If you want to be different, be different...but I can't see how Christians of what ever denomonation are having such influence over people not being able to be different. I just don't see it or hear it in Richard's songs either. Where do you live that these Christians are so "in your face"? Fran :) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 06:30:10 -0700 From: "Sandra J. Smith" Subject: Re: [RS] Re: spirituality in music ><< Fran wrote: > > >I remain unconvinced of this thought that Christianity is actively being >foisted down people's throats. My Church (United Methodist) is in a >community where it becomes increasingly difficult to exist... the community >is largely Muslim, but we are accepting of the changes and try to partner >towards positive change for the community. I also live a few towns away from >a town where when a Presbyterian church burned down last year, the folks at >the synagogue were of the first to offer their sanctuary to these Christians >so that they could have a place to worship. >If you want to be different, be different...but I can't see how Christians of >what ever denomonation are having such influence over people not being able >to be different. I just don't see it or hear it in Richard's songs either. >Where do you live that these Christians are so "in your face"? Fran, I am a Christian, but I often feel that other Christians (particularly born-again Christians) are in my face and trying to force their view of Christianity down my throat. I spend a lot of time on the unofficial Taylor Guitar Forum. There are some truly good people there, engaging in acts of kindness that you just don't hear about anywhere else (example: several hundred members taking up a fund to buy a really nice Taylor for a guy who, but for the forum, is a stranger - just because he had to sell off all his guitars to cope with spiraling medical bills.) A lot of people, perhaps a majority, on the forum are Christians. Some just can't help themselves from proselytizing on the board. Others sign their messages with things like "yours in the RISEN CHRIST" or "I lift you up to the LORD." Some will quote scripture excessively in a thread that just doesn't call for it by any stretch of the imagination. Mind you, I think that most of these people are good, honest people who mean well. But frankly, a lot of them are shoving their born-again, fundamentalist views down everyone's throat. It bothers me as a Christian. I can understand how it would REALLY bother someone who's not a Christian. And I understand that some people might be put off by the frequent Christian references in Richard's work. I'm not; I think it adds to the richness of his storytelling. But someone who's been put off by proselytizing, in-your-face fundamentalist Christians might bristle at some of Richard's lyrics. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 11:59:39 -0400 From: "Shelley DePaul" Subject: Re: [RS] Re: spirituality in music Hey guys, I think the problem here is semantic. It might be better to refer to "those individuals" who either uplift or offend, etc. rather than the 'label' of the particular sect. Because, let's face it you've got both types, and everything in between, everywhere. I think the issue here is human nature, not religion. (And, once again, I think that's what Richard is concerned with) Religions in themselves are innocent and each is a totally viable path to God. It's what the individual does with the knowledge that constitutes a beginning toward approaching some truth regarding the essence of divinity. Once again, though Richard on occasion (Many occasions) uses characters from the bible, I think, theologically, he doesn't use them in a particular Christian context. You'd have to be a whole lot more specific to convince me that there's a Christian 'Theme' (and the key word is 'theme') in any of Richard's songs. The word Christian itself is so vague (Which is another reason we have problems here) because within Christianity there are so many different ideas. The discussion might be more relevant and interesting (It would to me!) If, as a Catholic or Buddhist, or Jew, etc., each of you would be specific about , maybe one particular aspect of your faith and show how Richard portrays it. I would find that fascinating, and we might find in the process that our themes have much more in common than we realized! Or, talk about how, as a human being, you can relate to any of the characters - religion aside. (Geeze, can you tell I'm an English teacher) O. K. class, convince me. : ) Shelley P. S. See now, as I think, I'm already convincing myself because the idea of "God is Love" is definitely a theme of many Christian sects - as well as b'zillions of other religions. (That's one theme of "Love Before You Go". Don't you think?) Message ----- From: "Sandra J. Smith" To: Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 9:30 AM Subject: Re: [RS] Re: spirituality in music > ><< Fran wrote: > > > > >I remain unconvinced of this thought that Christianity is actively being > >foisted down people's throats. My Church (United Methodist) is in a > >community where it becomes increasingly difficult to exist... the community > >is largely Muslim, but we are accepting of the changes and try to partner > >towards positive change for the community. I also live a few towns away from > >a town where when a Presbyterian church burned down last year, the folks at > >the synagogue were of the first to offer their sanctuary to these Christians > >so that they could have a place to worship. > >If you want to be different, be different...but I can't see how Christians of > >what ever denomonation are having such influence over people not being able > >to be different. I just don't see it or hear it in Richard's songs either. > >Where do you live that these Christians are so "in your face"? > > Fran, I am a Christian, but I often feel that other Christians > (particularly born-again Christians) are in my face and trying to > force their view of Christianity down my throat. > > I spend a lot of time on the unofficial Taylor Guitar Forum. There > are some truly good people there, engaging in acts of kindness that > you just don't hear about anywhere else (example: several hundred > members taking up a fund to buy a really nice Taylor for a guy who, > but for the forum, is a stranger - just because he had to sell off > all his guitars to cope with spiraling medical bills.) A lot of > people, perhaps a majority, on the forum are Christians. Some just > can't help themselves from proselytizing on the board. Others sign > their messages with things like "yours in the RISEN CHRIST" or "I > lift you up to the LORD." Some will quote scripture excessively in a > thread that just doesn't call for it by any stretch of the > imagination. > > Mind you, I think that most of these people are good, honest people > who mean well. But frankly, a lot of them are shoving their > born-again, fundamentalist views down everyone's throat. > > It bothers me as a Christian. I can understand how it would REALLY > bother someone who's not a Christian. And I understand that some > people might be put off by the frequent Christian references in > Richard's work. I'm not; I think it adds to the richness of his > storytelling. But someone who's been put off by proselytizing, > in-your-face fundamentalist Christians might bristle at some of > Richard's lyrics. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 13:38:45 -0400 From: patrick t power Subject: [RS] Richard and The Bible Richard is a voracious reader whose imagination is stirred by the imaginations of others. That he spent time in seminary has no doubt given him plenty of fodder for his work. Unlike so many people who read The Bible and take every passage as a literal message from some deity, Richard is able to see beyond the literal-ness of "the word" and create his own story, with his own dialogue, his own outcome (or not), . . . all based on his own experiences as a human being. The Bible is replete with people whose stories are barely told. Richard does in song what Anita Diamant did with her book "The Red Tent", in which she created a lifestory about Dinah (Jacob's only daughter), who -- in The Bible -- barely rates as a footnote. I was raised a Catholic and went to Catholic schools for twelve years, but I don't subscribe to any particular religious beliefs at this time. However, I am *intrigued* by the lives of the saints as well as other religious figures. My lack of "faith" hasn't kept me from being interested in reading such books as Thomas Cahill's wonderful Hinges Of History series ("How The Irish Saved Civilization", "The Gifts Of The Jews" and "Desire Of The Everlasting Hills: The World Before and After Jesus"). Links to excerpts of these books can be found at Amazon. I've shortened the links for them here. "How The Irish Saved Civilization: The Untold Story of Ireland's Heroic Role from the Fall of Rome to the Rise of Medieval Europe" http://shorterlink.com/?BYMGCH "The Gifts Of The Jews: How a Tribe of Desert Nomads Changed the Way Everyone Thinks and Feels" http://shorterlink.com/?429PP3 "Desire of the Everlasting Hills: The World Before and After Jesus" http://shorterlink.com/?REPRNV Pat ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V4 #256 ***********************************