From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V4 #252 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Friday, August 30 2002 Volume 04 : Number 252 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Christian Songs? [B Gallagher ] Re: [RS] Re: . . . spirituality from the folkies [Jennifer Powell ] [RS] would a little faith come to harm you? ["Norman A. Johnson" Subject: [RS] Christian Songs? > Subject: [RS] christians vs. pagan > > Sharon wrote, > > "richard did only the christian themed songs.. i walked away with a > definate impression... based on that.. and I know his music. > can you imagine the impression of those new to his music. i would have > thought he was a christian artist and probably stayed away from his music" - -- Careful here. I interpret some of Shindell's "Christian songs" differently. Sure, I agree with some of the points made by Roxy, Shelley, Lisa, Deb, and Rabbi Lea. Next Best Western is a song about all those things, mainly doubt. But hear the punch line - And deliver me, Lord deliver me, Deliver me to...the next Best Western. IMO, some Christians tend to pray for frivolous things - the Yankees, does God care what sports team wins? Also listen closely to The Ballad of Mary Magdalene. 3...I'm sorry if I might offend But I will never see How the tenderness I shared with him Became a heresy...2 Mary Magdalene claimed Jesus9 body. Could the wedding at Canna have been theirs? Scholars say no. The churches portray Jesus as both Devine and human, a man who was tempted but, God forbid... Anyway, RS is being critical of 'organized religion'. In fact at his recent IMAC concert Richard said he wrote MM to, 3piss off the religious right2. Oh and thanks Elaine. You're right, the list has improved with an interesting discussion instead of posts just gushing over Richard's greatness. I think he would enjoy this discussion. 3God's creation innocent... 3Aren9t we all? At first anyway. How 'bout some Peace, Love, & Understanding. - -- Bartley ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:23:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Jennifer Powell Subject: Re: [RS] Re: . . . spirituality from the folkies > Now out of curiosity, what other folkies seem to > write with a similar sense > of spirituality without actually writing songs of > worship? I'm usually a lurker here, but I'll jump in on this one-Ellis Paul's "Angel in Manahattan" is pretty deeply spiritual, more about faith than any real type of religion; David LaMotte is also very spiritual, his song "Butler Street" is a good example of this, that song, in a way is about the tension and difference between organized religion/dogma and actual spirituality, joy and human kindness. In all honesty, LaMotte often wavers back and forth across the line between what I would call "religious" and "spiritual," but I find that it makes the music a little more interesting. Jen Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 13:56:54 -0400 (EDT) From: ffrink@lm.NOSPAM.com Subject: [RS] (RS) Re: Lennon Lyrics (No RS) Quoting "Ronnie de Champs" > Subject: Re: [RS] Re: Lennon lyrics (no RS) > > Mike wrote: > > >I think John Lennon had a song on the Plastic Ono Band record that had > > >lyrics >something like >'I dont' belive in Jesus, I don't beleive in > >Buddha, etc, etc" Maybe the title was 'God'? It's been a while. > Anyway, > >I know he recorded that >record while engaged in Arthur Janov's Primal > > >Scream therapy. > > You're right Mike, title of that song is 'God'. Not that well known as > 'Imagine' offcourse. In the song he mentions a lot of concepts / peopel > he > does not believe in: > > I don't believe in magic > I don't believe in I-ching > I don't believe in Bible > I don't believe in Tarot > I don't believe in Hitler > I don't believe in Jesus > I don't believe in Kennedy > I don't believe in Buddha > I don't believe in Mantra > I don't believe in Gita > I don't believe in Yoga > I don't believe in Kings > I don't believe in Elvis > I don't believe in Zimmerman > I don't believe in Beatles > I just believe in me...and that reality > > Ronnie > > ___ Isn't that last line "I just believe in me....Yoko and me...that's reality" (just from a twisted memory) Ronnie, don't I see you on the RT list? Always home, Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 14:34:10 -0400 From: Elwestrand Subject: [RS] Spirituality and the individual What I like about RS's spirituality songs is that they are about the individuals relationship to his maker/spirituality. Not what any of us should be doing. There is nothing preachy about any of his songs. Each one is a Job like figure, questioning, confronting and wanting to believe. I think he uses Christian ideology because he knows it The only song that is slightly judgemental, IMHO is Transit. In this song the contrast between the "unwashed masses" about to get a mass final baptism, and Sister Maria, a woman of implicit faith, is drawn very clearly. Its fairly obvious whose got it together. But, because the song has so much irony and humor, I can't take it too seriously. Lisa ________________________________________________ Get your own "800" number Voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 18:21:16 -0400 From: "Norman A. Johnson" Subject: [RS] would a little faith come to harm you? >> Now out of curiosity, what other folkies seem to write with a similar sense of spirituality without actually writing songs of worship? << Jennifer Powell: >> I'm usually a lurker here, but I'll jump in on this one-Ellis Paul's "Angel in Manahattan" is pretty deeply spiritual, more about faith than any real type of religion<< I agree. Even though I am an agnostic with atheistic leanings, that song really gets to me. I also agree with Ron's comment about David Wilcox. I'd add Dar Williams- most of the songs on The Green World are about spirituality in one form or another- from activist left-wing Catholic ("I had no right") to messiahistic Judaism ("And a God Descended") to non-attachment Buddhism ("What Do You Love More than Love")-- and I haven't even mentioned "After All". Norman ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:36:21 -0600 From: "Bill Chmelir" Subject: [RS] Imagine life so boring "Imagine no possessions It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too" - - ---John Lennon Speaking of religion, this will probably be considered sacrilege by some on the list. I've always liked Imagine and most of John Lennon's music. However, after reading the lines above rather than listening to them, I've reappraised Imagine. I can't help thinking what a boring world Lennon's imagined world would be. Give me a break John. You were a great musician, and I know you were a dreamer, but your lyrics in Imagine imply you were skipping around in lala land in the early 1970s. I'm sure that many of the same people who thought that George H.W. Bush was out of touch with America because he wasn't aware of bar code scanners at the supermarket think that Lennon's lyrics in Imagine are absolutely brilliant. Imagine could appropriately serve as an anthem for people everywhere who are completely out of touch with reality. If Lennon believed in the lyrics he wrote, he hardly believed "in that reality" or any reality. Personally, I like having things in life worth dying for. Imagine a life so devoid of meaning you have nothing worth risking your life for. A life devoid of true passion. What about the freedom for those you love to pursue happiness? Aren't they worth risking our lives and possibly dying for? I think so. Killing and religion, John? The 20th century saw secular regimes (USSR, China, Cambodia, etc...) murder multiple times more people in the name of the state (about 100 million) than have been killed in the name of religion through all of time. If Lennon wished to indict the greatest evil of his lifetime he should have changed that line to "and no communist states too". I'm not a religious person, but I recognize that the world would be a darker place for the vast majority of it's population without religion. Religion is a very good thing in the lives of billions of people. I suppose it would be easier for me to understand John's espousing the virtues of no need for possessions if I lived in a Brownstone on the upper east side. Lennon had more talent on his left pinky toe at age 18 than I have in my whole body at age 29 and so financial reality is an issue for me but was not for him around the time he wrote Imagine. The thing I love most about Richard's songs is that they deal with real people in real life situations. They involve real struggle, real fear, real love, real beliefs. I guess I'm grounded in and enjoy reality. John Lennon was a great musician. His death was very sad and horrible. But if I read the above four line excerpt from Imagine and didn't know that he had written it, I would think the author was either just being silly or that the author was a child. Maybe a grown up who had been doing too much acid. Ahh... Altered reality.... Maybe that's it. Peace Bill - Somewhere Near the surface of Planet Earth - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.380 / Virus Database: 213 - Release Date: 7/24/2002 ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V4 #252 ***********************************