From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V4 #240 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Saturday, August 24 2002 Volume 04 : Number 240 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] guitar threads [Jim Colbert ] [RS] keep on tallkin' ["Susan Koval" ] [RS] RS-Christian Imagery ["Rabbi Lea Gavrieli" ] Re: [RS] RS-Christian Imagery ["Susan Koval" ] [RS] Freudian slip ["Bill Chmelir" ] Re: [RS] On Your Feet Boys - Gallipoli ["Vanessa C. Wills" ] Re: [RS] RS-Christian Imagery [Lisa Davis & Family Subject: [RS] guitar threads > I don't get it. Why do we have to do an "instead". Enough people have indicated that they like the guitar threads/posts, so why is there any remaining talk about eliminating/reducing them. > > Again, if you don't like the thread, hit the delete key. There's not so much volume that a few more posts would be onerous. > > Joe I agree, Joe. While I don't think this is probably the format to drone on endlessly about "gearhead" conversations, like, say, I dunno, scalloped bracing making a difference in clarity and sustain when playing beyond the iron gate in dadgad tuning on a rebuilt harmony with banjo picks, what we've mostly had recently are people enthusiastic about wanting to get started on guitar and looking for tips and advice. They may not be to the point of wanting to join a list exclusively dedicated to guitar stuff when all they might want to do is pick out a few simple tunes or get over those first humps in the learning curve of playing. To me, that's what folk music is about...sharing the music, and passing it on. Yeah, it's sometimes a little off-topic, but geez, like THAT'S never happened before. I say like most things, it's best if we just self-police and just try to think about whether the question is of interest to most of the list. Or how long a thread has gone on. And btw, re: waltzing matilda, Eric Bogle has written some of the finest war-or anti-war, depending on your definition- songs ever. His studio recordings tend to be be overproduced- he had some great live things on vinyl years back, unadorned and raw but quite moving., Fine songwriter. (Although he pulls a 180 and does novelty songs too, which aren't as endearing to me, overall...) Eric is going to be on tour in the states in the fall, which doesn't happen that often. Happy weekend, all! jim colbert somewhere near bellefonte pa ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 08:24:58 -0400 From: "Susan Koval" Subject: [RS] keep on tallkin' >Not to preclude discussions of "...Iron Gate" (or anything else RS) but the >song has come up a few times and our discussions of it and everything else >can be found in the archives A reference to the archives often comes up when newer people to the list start a song discussion, which always seems (to me at least) to discourage new discussions. As a lot of the "old" regulars don't post much anymore, I'd say to the new people - feel free to talk about any song, even if it is already in the archives... :) New insights and questions are always interesting. Sue K ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 09:49:01 -0400 From: "Rabbi Lea Gavrieli" Subject: [RS] RS-Christian Imagery Lisa, funny you should mention it. I have mostly not been bothered by the Christian content of Richard's songs, knowing who he is and where he comes from, and what his professed current position is. Also holding the view myself that we all are essentially worshiping the one nameless deity, and we have our various paths for getting there, (don't get me started on the travesty of killing each other over whose path is more right!). But then, too, I listen to Sunday mass on the radio just to get to hear the homily from someone else's point of view, so I've got some pretty good filtering skills. However, the most recent show of his that I saw at the bottom line, though, did get to me, and I'm not sure if it was the particular cluster of songs, or the fact that I had brought a fellow rabbi to turn him on to RS's music, and suddenly felt self-conscious myself, or if it was the sudden understanding of 'Love, Before You Go', which RS explained that night in a light I had never before heard it, (i.e. God's last few words to Jesus before he comes to spend his time on earth). I guess, ultimately, his music has clear spiritual content, and as a Christian, practicing or not, he can't help but use some of that vernacular to express himself. Living in a seriously Christian country now, I'm guessing it's bubbling to the surface for him more than it did before, especially in a post-9/11 world. As someone who always tries to give the benefit of the doubt, I do not believe he's in any way proseletizing, so I can live with the imagery and enjoy the spirituality, (though I may not again bring colleagues to his shows). Argentina happens to be an especially brutal place for the Jews right now, with plenty of overt and covert acts of anti-semitism and out-and-out hate crimes, many Argentinian Jews are fleeing if they at all have the resources, I've wondered if Richard knows about this particularly desperate situation and if he did know, would he ever want to address it? Anyway, just my own take on it, I'm certainly interested to hear what others have to say about this! Best, LG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 10:52:24 -0400 From: "Susan Koval" Subject: Re: [RS] RS-Christian Imagery I'm amazed by the implications in the last couple of emails from Lisa and Lea that Richard's music should not reflect Christian imagery and that they would be uncomfortable exposing their Jewish friends and colleagues to it. Why should there be any objections to hearing someone else's point of view? You don't have to agree with it. You don't even have to listen to it! If I listen to music from someone who was Jewish or Muslim or Buddhist and their beliefs were reflected in their music that's OK with me. Sue K ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:54:25 -0600 From: "Bill Chmelir" Subject: [RS] Freudian slip Lisa, It had crossed my mind that "on your KNEES boys" could have been a Freudian slip. I'm sure the boys would have chosen whatever you had in mind ;-) rather than what Richard did. > The correct line in Courier is: > > "on your FEET boys > make your peace boys" > >Yes that was accidental. I know its feet (is my job getting me >that down that I made that particular freudian slip? - or maybe >I had other things in mind for the boys ;-)! Have a great day, Bill - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.380 / Virus Database: 213 - Release Date: 7/24/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 17:42:55 -0400 (EDT) From: "Vanessa C. Wills" Subject: Re: [RS] On Your Feet Boys - Gallipoli AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!! I _love_ TOFOG. It is so great to hear someone else on the Shindell list praise them. "Memorial Day" is a beautiful song, and it added a little bit of extra resonance for me when Russell wore his grandfather's medal while accepting an Oscar for his work in Gladiator. - --V On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Deb Woodell wrote: > I also quite like TOFOG's (aka Russell Crowe's) > "Memorial Day" about a soldier coming home. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 16:39:47 -0600 From: Sean La Roche Subject: [RS] ANOTHER ARTIST And I thought I'd make one post to the list and get out of town the other day. Anyway--somebody I was close to died last night. I finally had a chance to put some music on just now. I don't know why--I was drawn to the PAUL SIEBEL compilation--if one can call it that-he only put out two albums! And I've noticed that it is OK to mention other poet/musicians besides old Richard here, so I just want to share my love of Paul's music. Many people have covered his songs--and even if you know Bonnie Raitt's version of "Louise" I'd like to suggest that if you have, or do get, the CD listen to the original--if only for the keyboards. The album is on Philo (Rounder) and was released in 1995--Philo 1161. Dirty Linen did a nice story on Paul several years ago--at that time he was working in a bakery in Easton, Maryland. He is a relatively unknown treasure. Thanks again for giving me the space to share this stuff!! Sean - -- Sean La Roche 505/262-2969 New Mexico laroche@swcp.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 01:25:16 -0700 From: Lisa Davis & Family Subject: Re: [RS] RS-Christian Imagery You misunderstand. First off, the very idea that I would suggest, even for a second, that Richard's music "should" or "should not" reflect anything one way or the other, is absurd! As if! Anyway, the point is that in a Christian-dominated country there is always anxiety from non-Christians that Christians who make repeated overt and repeated reference to the particular features of their religion may be proselytizing or at the very least, speaking only to a select group of listeners, the in-crowd. (There is a whole category of "Christian" music that markets itself as such, and is speaking to a particular audience.) Obviously, I'm a major Richard fan and don't feel that way about his music. In fact, I think early on this ATTRACTED me to Richard's music simply because it made clear he was dealing with difficult spiritual issues, that interested me. (I'm thinking of Sea if Fleur-de-Lys and Nora in particular -- the idea of a singer discussing what was and was not "sin"!!) But not every listener, especially a new listener, would feel that way if their first exposure was a subgroup of songs each of which had such overt references. My dad, who is of Jewish background and as hostile to proselytizing as anyone, loves Richard's music too, but I don't think I would have chosen to play him e.g. Ascent, Transit, Love Before you Go (with intro), "Shades of Black, shades of blue," etc. as his first taste. I love all Richard's songs but I do think, based on my last listen, that UNLESS he wants people to think his focus is narrower than I believe it is, he might want to mix things up a bit when choosing his set-list. Lisa Davis ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V4 #240 ***********************************