From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V3 #364 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Wednesday, October 17 2001 Volume 03 : Number 364 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [RS] By Now, pay later [Rongrittz@aol.com] Re: [RS] By Now, pay later [Vanessa Wills ] Re: [RS] Re: Young doe in the high beams. ["Kristen Myshrall" ] [RS] Peeling back the layers. [Rongrittz@aol.com] [RS] Submitted for your approval ["Gene Frey" ] [RS] Re: shindell-list-digest V3 #361 [LBECKLAW@aol.com] [RS] Re: bye now [LBECKLAW@aol.com] [RS] Re: 45 minute traffic lights [LBECKLAW@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:27:34 EDT From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] By Now, pay later >> But, keep listening after Richard stops singing. The music goes on for about another minute, and gets even creepier, breaking down until you are almost breathless. << Oh, baby, yes. Ironically, I was doing that on the way to work this morning . . . I kept turning the volume up as the song faded out, and let myself imagine what was going on in that car as the music played. And I think I need a shower right about now. RG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:35:48 -0400 From: Vanessa Wills Subject: Re: [RS] By Now, pay later AHEM!!!! RockinRon, you better see if you can get a two-for-one deal on that therapy you promised to pay for. :-P Rongrittz@aol.com wrote: > >> But, keep listening after Richard stops singing. The music goes on for about another minute, and gets even creepier, breaking down until you are almost breathless. << > > Oh, baby, yes. Ironically, I was doing that on the way to work this morning . . . I kept turning the volume up as the song faded out, and let myself imagine what was going on in that car as the music played. > > And I think I need a shower right about now. > > RG - -- "I still confuse mowing down with getting through." -Jeff Lang, "throw it all," from _Cedar Grove_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:46:28 -0500 From: "Kristen Myshrall" Subject: Re: [RS] Re: Young doe in the high beams. No no no no no.....i won't except that sweet Richard could *gasp* think those things.....now I see each of those characters in a different way as well...no evil in my mind....damn i really am too innocent Kristen - ----- Original Message ----- From: Rongrittz@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 8:05 AM To: shindell-list@smoe.org Subject: [RS] Re: Young doe in the high beams. >> Richard...he's to sweet...he can't write evil....can he?? << The sinister INS agent in "Fishing." The guy on death row in "Ascent." "By Now." Damn straight that guy can write evil. RGGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:52:29 +0200 (MEST) From: Katrin.Uhl@t-online.de (Katrin Uhl) Subject: Re: [RS] By Now Charlie Hunter schrieb: > What I love about the skill > of the writing is > that the listener, once he/she figures out that something > is 'off' about the > narrator, can go back and unpeel the menace - or at least > willful disregard > for safety - of the narrator. you are so right! One of Richard's best qualities as a songwriter is to not be obvious. Which is, I'm sure, much harder than to be obvious. I still like Nick Cave though. I haven't heard much of his stuff for 15 years, and his dark, sinister songs spoke perfectly to my teenage slef back then. Have to give the new album a good listen before I make up my mind. But do you know the song Johnny Cash covers, I assume Nick sings it too, but I only know the cover, about the electric chair. Maybe that's an exception to the obvious=less artful rule. Katrin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:15:05 -0400 (EDT) From: vcwills@Princeton.EDU (Vanessa Christina Wills) Subject: Re: [RS] By Now Katrin, you're talking about "The Mercy Seat." And my god, nick's version is soooo much better. Johnny's sounds empty and emasculated compared to the nick cave version. I definitely urge you to check it out. :-) - --V ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:22:53 -0700 From: Lee Wessman Subject: [RS] Re: shindell-list-digest V3 #363 I think Charlie and Vanessa have hit it squarely with their remarks about "By Now." I particularly agree with Charlie's comments about how "what gets left out" is as important as what gets left in. That's an essential dividing line, for me, between a worthwhile and deftly written movie/book/play/song and a hack job. The reason it's so engaging -- this sense of an artist dropping clues about the meaning of things as we go along -- is because that's the way life unfolds. We don't have the luxury, day to day, of seeing the big picture. We accumulate our understanding of what's happening to us. We pause all the time to try to deconstruct, to figure out how we might have known what was about to happen, how we could have behaved differently to change the outcome. And we hope that by reviewing how we got into our current circumstances, someday we will gain enough wisdom to have greater control over our circumstances in the future. It's the study of our own personal history that consumes most of our lives. "By Now" and so many other Richard songs are great because they are ambiguous on their surface, particularly on first listen. But when you do understand what the plot is about, you can go back and listen again. You can peel back the lyrics, one by one, looking at what they suggest. And you see that Richard's song pulled you along, just the way life pulls you along. Yours truly, lee p.s. I did see Richard sing this lyric as "bye now" (as in goodbye) once upon a time (Sorry to those who have heard this one before.) He was playing a little art gallery in Carmel back when Sparrow's Point was his only record and he was waiting for Blue Divide's release. The total audience was maybe 20 people. A drunk wandered in off the street, sort of staggered around for a little bit, and then staggered out. Richard very deliberately timed the chorus of "By Now" and sang the line straight at the drunk as he left. "Bye now." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 13:08:09 EDT From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: [RS] Peeling back the layers. >> "By Now" and so many other Richard songs are great because they are ambiguous on their surface, particularly on first listen. But when you do understand what the plot is about, you can go back and listen again. << Another good example is "I Saw My Youth Today." On first listen, you immediately assume (well, I did) that he's talking about a son from a previous marriage. But then, but then, but then . . . could he be talking about running into himSELF as a child, i.e., his OWN youth? That's why I can listen to RS songs over and over, and see him over and over. It's like seeing a good movie or reading a good book multiple times. You can keep peeling back the layers and getting more layers . . . finding new and amazing things along the way. RG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 13:26:38 -0400 From: "Gene Frey" Subject: [RS] Submitted for your approval Hey you guys, Ron G. wrote: >>Another good example is "I Saw My Youth Today." On first listen, you immediately assume (well, I did) that he's talking about a son from a previous marriage. But then, but then, but then . . . could he be talking about running into himSELF as a child, i.e., his OWN youth? << I know I posted this about a year ago, but this is exactly what I thought. In fact, it reminded me of the second greatest Twilight Zone ever - Walking Distance, featuring Gig Young as a stressed out Ad Exec who takes off on a drive. (It's been a while, so forgive any detail errors.) He stops at a gas station for a fill up and a tune-up, sees a sign saying that he is a mile and a half from his old hometown (hence the title) and goes for a walk. When he gets there, he realizes it's his old hometown, all right, but it's the time when he is around 12 years old. He does see himself, and his parents, and there is an excellent twist at the end. My favorite Zone ever is 'A Stop at Willoughby,' about, of all things, a stressed out Ad Exec. Either Serling has some issues here, or I do. Gene F. (who, while not an ad exec, is in a push business. Push push push) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 13:37:44 EDT From: LBECKLAW@aol.com Subject: [RS] Re: shindell-list-digest V3 #361 Yes! We have a winner! It twas "Roan Inish" --a magical little movie I saw at least 5 years ago. For some reason, it's stayed with me long since. And as reported, Castaway instantly brought this movie to mind, although there can't be a real connection, since Sparrows Point is nearly 10 years old, and the movie was out about 1995. Thanks very much for solving this mystery for me. Can't say whether it's age, sleep deprivation, or Sparrows Point, but lately my memory is lapsing more and more. Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 13:41:44 EDT From: LBECKLAW@aol.com Subject: [RS] Re: bye now Mark, Until you made this admission (re: being a poor misguided soul), I was starting to work on a theory that only women were misreading By Now as an upbeat, friendly song. Now I'll have to reformulate, but I can't tell you how good it feels to not be the sole misguided soul. Our numbers are growing, our hearts are pure, our coffee is strong. And who knows? Maybe we're right. Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 13:44:17 EDT From: LBECKLAW@aol.com Subject: [RS] Re: 45 minute traffic lights Norm, LOL! Unfortunately, my wild and wide-ranging mood swings are not limited to traffic light stops. The good news is: I have tinted windows. Laura ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V3 #364 ***********************************