From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V3 #119 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Thursday, April 5 2001 Volume 03 : Number 119 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Re: The Courier [Tom926@aol.com] [RS] Seeing Things [RockinRonD@aol.com] [RS] SOTW: the courier [jcolb ] Re: [RS] Re: The Courier [Elwestrand ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 04:57:25 EDT From: Tom926@aol.com Subject: [RS] Re: The Courier Jim I think hit upon a very important point: Jean Ritchie once made a statement to the effect that the most effective songs (she was referring to environmentally- aware songs, but the same sentiments would apply to anti-war) often aren't the ones that bash you over the head, they're the ones that sneak up behind you and really get you thinking. So much of the anti war poetry and songs of the 60s absolutely no longer speak to us because, having bashed us over the head, they had no more life left in them. I am pretty ambivalent about "Sparrows Point" as a whole. Lovely, lovely songs, crappola production. "The Courier" is actually one of the few songs on here that does have a lovely arrangement--Larry's violin is the crowning touch (though I wonder what Jane Scarpatoni and her luscious cello could have done). Lyrically, it is an interesting perspective (and it reminds me of the ONLY movie with Mel Gibson I have ever liked--"Gallipoli."). But the song also reminds me of something Virginia Woolf said in "A Room of One's Own" about fiction writers: one either writes journalistically from the outside in or psychologically from the inside out. And this song definitely is journalistic. This is not to say that both approaches don't have their merits. Maybe what disturbs me about this is the lack of a position for a better word. Now I don't want to be beat over the head with a war, war is stupid (to quote that great philosopher, Boy George) message, but "The Courier" is JUST descriptive, JUST surface. The last time we discussed this I went back and reread the WWI poets (LOTS of great websites about them here). And I think I have the same problem with Wilfred Owen as I have with TC: the surface descriptions don't reveal any resonating depths. At least for me. I think that is why my favorite, by far, of the WWI poets is Isaac Rosenberg. And the worst is Rupert Brooke (though, my, he certainly WAS pretty). So I know that I have probably raised the hackles of RG at least (though I still love reading what you have to say RG). Maybe I feel so cranky about TC because I have a cold coming on. LOL. Ask me about this again in a few days and maybe I will feel differently. Tom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:52:31 EDT From: RockinRonD@aol.com Subject: [RS] Seeing Things "Courier" is also one of my favorite RS songs and, in my opinion, a classic example of his best writing. Like so many other of his signature songs, "Reunion Hill," "Sparrows Point" and "Arrowhead" come immediately to mind, "Courier" conjures images in my head the minute it begins. It's almost as if a little movie begins screening in my mind's eye--I see the war torn battlefields, the hilly and tree-lined lanscapes, I see the soldiers in ragged clothing, the haze, the injured, the fires...by God, sometimes I can even smell wood burning and the stink of sulphur. I've always felt that this song, along with a few others, could easily be the basis for a one act play or documentary or even a full length movie. Ultimately, "Courier" is a short story put to music isn't it? And when Richard performs the song, it's almost as if he had experienced what he's singing about--as an actor would in a play or film. It's these qualities, in my view, that truly stand Richard and his work apart from the rest. RockinRon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 09:10:06 +0000 From: jcolb Subject: [RS] SOTW: the courier > I believe he IS talking about knights in armor. I think Richard is depicting > how war occurs across time and across places, but that some things stay the same > - - getting commands to the troops, getting messages to loved ones. It's > extremely interesting how COMMUNICATIONS have changed over time. Hundreds of > years ago it could take months or years to find out who won a battle, today you > know almost before the soldiers do thanks to CNN... It would be interesting to > add a Gulf War verse to the Courier. Interesting how i sometimes miss the obvious... now with a third point of comparison (present or future0 it probably would not have been lost on me. jim, feeling dumb ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 15:11:11 -0400 From: Elwestrand Subject: Re: [RS] Re: The Courier Tom wrote: Now I don't want to be beat over the head with a war, war is > stupid (to > quote that great philosopher, Boy George) message, but "The Courier" is > JUST > descriptive, JUST surface. Well first off I don't agree that it is entirely "surface" as Tom puts it. We know that at least one of the couriers is injured and I think that there is alot of information implied if you care to use your "imagination" :-)! I do think though that being on the "surface" is intrinsic to being a successful courier. It is not the job of the courier to think about what he is doing or consider the moral implications of the orders he carries. He must assume that these issues have been considered by his superiors. This is the story of someone who's job is not to question, but to go forward. Actually I think this is why the song resonates with so many, because it is really a song of faith. Most of us have not had to charge the battlefield, but many of us have had to be strong in the face of very difficult situations with very little to go on except our belief in our role in the greater good. One other thing about the song I like is that Richard spotlights an occupation we might not think much about and makes it both interesting and noble. He's kinda good at this songwriting thing! E ________________________________________________ Get your own "800" number Voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V3 #119 ***********************************