From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V3 #92 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Saturday, March 17 2001 Volume 03 : Number 092 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Re: the other side of fandom [Tom926@aol.com] Re: [RS] Re: the other side of fandom [Lisa Davis & family ] [RS] Re: fandom [Rongrittz@aol.com] [RS] fandom, Cold Missouri waters [Janet Cinelli ] Re: [RS] Re: fandom [SMOKEY596@aol.com] Re: [RS] the other side of fandom [John A Clary ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 09:25:38 EST From: Tom926@aol.com Subject: [RS] Re: the other side of fandom Oh absolutely. You know, the funny thing about being gay is that you meet some really fascinating--and famous, well to a certain extent--people. Trust me, I am no Mr. Gorgeous, but I did date two somewhat famous award-winning writers, both times VERY briefly. Actually the second one I only went out with twice--I dumped him when he tried to drag me into a cab in pouring rain on Broadway at 2am on a worknight. He couldn't understand 1. that I WASN'T dying to jump into bed with him, at least not on a second date and 2. that his being famous wasn't at all an aphrodisiac for me. After that he simply disappeared--well after screaming at me on Broadway whilst trying to drag me into the cab. Up to that point I had thought him very charming and the single most intelligent person I had ever met. I met someone else after that who had professional dealings with him. Apparently the same thing happened: Mr. Charm until he was told No, then he became Mr Petulant AHole. I still admire his WORK tremendously, but I would rather have major dental surgery without novacaine than meet him again. I have absolutely NO desire to meet Richrad in person. Quite frankly I would either have nothing to say to him beyond "Hello I admire your work tremendously" or start an argument over some of his songs. I sorta feel that way about "Ascent." Part of me loves the lyrical grace--the way it encapsulates a very complicated moral argument so succinctly and beautifully. And part of me wants to say Why Does Everything You Sing Have To Be About Incredibly Complicated Moral And Spiritual Problems. I guess it depends on how cranky I am at the time. LOL. I mean, I have spent this week listening to English and Irish colleens sing the most gorgeous traditional songs--partly in honour of St Pattys Day--and because I am making a tape mix of them for myself. Maura O'Connell and Mary Black and Silly Sisters and Linda Thompson and Cathie Ryan and Doloes Keane and Kate Rusby and Niamh Parsons and Mary Jane Lamond and on and on. And even someone like Eliza Carthy will sing something like "Herring Song": And she met a man with a herring to sell... I mean it is just so wonderfully SILLY. Breaks up all those my true love was untrue/murdered/stolen by the Americans and now i am pining away songs. LOL. I guess that is why I love Richard AND Pianosaurus--a pop group from the 80s who released one cd of classic 60s pop jingles all played on authentic children's instruments. Groovy. But ask me again in a few minutes and I will be deeply moved by Mr Shindell's talent for creating songs that deal so gracefully and thoughtfully with deeply profound issues and situations. LOL, in any case, a happy St Pats to ye. And here is my one Irish joke I made up all by myself: "Erin Go Bragh" does not actually mean "Ireland Forver." The actual translation is "Erin, for God's Sake we're Irish Catholics...go put a bra on." :) Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 09:37:43 -0500 From: Lisa Davis & family Subject: Re: [RS] Re: the other side of fandom I totally agree we have no "claim" or "rights" over performers. Furthermore, just because you talk to someone after a show doesn't mean you "know" him, personally. Howver, I'd like to be clear we distinguish SOME people who may be brilliant artists while personal jerks, from, in this case, Richard, who by the accounts of many, many people, from personal experience hanging out with Richard, talking to him, etc., is at least at the friend/acquaintance level (I've never spoken to his ex-wife! :) ), an obviously nice, decent guy, maybe with a bit of an edge sometimes! I've talked to Richard often enough to be perfectly sure that I'd like him and enjoy conversations with him whether or not he'd ever written a line of music. The music just lets you skip over the smalltalk! this doesn't give me any more than any other listener any claims, rights, etc., but if I see a nice, intresting person I may want to make friends no matter who (s)he is. Hell, if I can make friends with people I've never even met live, but only talked to on the internet, I don't see that there is any taboo against making friends with people I've met live, if infrequently ,and also been permitted to hear a few of his innermost thoughts and most important ideas, thanks to music. The point is, performers are just people like anyone else. We don't have some claim to them. But they aren't off-limits either unless and until they say they are. lisa ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 17:20:07 From: "sharon g" Subject: [RS] emelin night 1 the memory of youthe couriertruck song trilogy -story.. sounds like darKeworth willinnext best westernmary magedelene..the sultry lucy versionNOT in order.. cotton dress summer windfishing.. arrowheadnorasonora's death row.. acoustic no band 2xreunion hill . no band..confessionyou stay herewisteriatransit..who is in charge here with band...encore abuelita... little chatter.. stiff audience... some guy in sweats stole the set list at intermissionrichard sounded great.. looked well and Lucy will be with him tonight.. the band sounded better than the last one.. i liked lisa on the fiddleDenny was the *star* last night.. i had no plans to go.. a ticket came my way.. and i went to make history - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 12:21:20 EST From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: [RS] Re: fandom >> The thing I have foudn is that you are usually better off not getting to "know" the artists you admire. When you do, you find out that they, like everyone else, have feet of clay and it can be really disappointing. Something about real life not living up to the art. << Amen to that. A few short years ago, I had the unfortunate "pleasure" of having some interaction with one of my musical idols, a 70's/80's singer/songwriter. It started out nice enough, but then took a turn for the bizarre as it became clear that he was a sick, lying, manipulative jerk. And what it wound up doing was poisoning his music for me, because I could no longer accept any of his songs as being honest or meaningful. So if he'd just stayed a "performer" and we'd maintained our distance, things might have been different. But he became a "person," and when I realized I didn't admire or respect the "person," I could no longer admire or respect the music. His loss, because I think he's down to about 17 fans at this point. Which is why I pretty much limit my interaction with Richard to guitar stuff. I don't care to know him "personally," necessarily. I mean, I'm not saying I wouldn't like to talk to him for hours about guitar playing, but I'm not about to push myself into his life. I don't bring him gifts, I don't want to know his parents . . . I'm just happy to listen to the music. RG ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 12:42:20 -0800 (PST) From: Janet Cinelli Subject: [RS] fandom, Cold Missouri waters This fandom thread is very interesting but just because someone brings a small gift doesn't mean they're a fanatic, does it? Besides, the few times I have seen Richard, he seemed genuinely happy to talk to his fans and not at all standoffish, but after reading about the idiot who wouldn't let go of his hand, I can understand if he was. I hope this doesn't happen to him too much and makes him leery of all his fans! THere is an interesting program on the history channel today that talks alot about the fire in "COld Missouri Waters". Too bad they didn't play the song to go with the piece. Janet Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 15:56:16 EST From: SMOKEY596@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] Re: fandom >>>.B It started out nice enough, but then took a turn for the bizarre as it became clear that he was a sick, lying, manipulative jerk. <<< As are some of his *fans*, no doubt. I'm sure that the performer takes much more risk than the fans in this type of situation, given that the number of weirdos in the crowd clearly outnumber him. SMOKEY "Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"bG.W. Bush Florence, S.C., Jan. 11, 2000B ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 13:08:02 -0800 From: John A Clary Subject: Re: [RS] the other side of fandom >> And part of me wants to say Why Does Everything You Sing Have To Be About Incredibly Complicated Moral And Spiritual Problems. I guess it depends on how cranky I am at the time. LOL. << Tom, your post just cracks me up. So, I guess Lazy is probably your most favorite of Richard's songs. No moral or spritual battle here: go to work or make love all day? Hmmm. As for fandom, it may have been the music that introduced me to Richard and indeed my first encounter with him was me being nothing more than an adoring fan lavishing him with praise, but since that first show I have gotten to talk to him on a deeper level about things we have in common. I honestly like him as a person based on those conversations. We have many things in common. I have no delusions about persuing him as a friend, but that has everything to do with geography and available time. Of course his talent is part of the dynamic between us, he inspires me, but so do all the people I count as my friends. If I applied Ron's thoughts about giving an artist professional distance and never entering into their personal space, I would not be able to have this really cool friendship with Ron. Ironic, eh? Just 'cause Ron and I aren't professional artists, doesn't mean it is more acceptable for us to have friends that appreciate our talent. So what if Richard is a "Star?" He's still a person and it makes me feel good that he remembers me. I believe that if we bumped into each other outside of the concert context he'd still remember me. When he was first trying out that CFox guitar, he handed it to me backstage and asked me to play it and offer my opinion on it's sound and playablilty -- as a guitar player, not some crazed fan. I think there's nothing wrong with Richard's fans entering into his space this way if they're invited to do so. Does this mean that I'm his "special friend?" No but it does add to my enjoyment of his music very much. And I'll never bring him brownies but then again, I've tasted my brownies =) I'll stick to what I know and do best. I try to make contact with the people that move me, famous or not. It's just how I am. And as long as Richard wants more from his fans than clapping and song requests and CD purchases, I'll indulge him. Will it make me sad when he no longer comes out after a show to talk to us? Not really. It's his choice after all. - -- john andrew clary "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." ~Hunter S. Thompson ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V3 #92 **********************************