From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V3 #86 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Wednesday, March 14 2001 Volume 03 : Number 086 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Heaven Sent [RockinRonD@aol.com] [RS] Ascent [Roxylee ] [RS] SOTW:verbose [Ocean Leighton ] Re: [RS] Heaven Sent ["L. Davis" ] Re: [RS] SOTW:verbose [Rongrittz@aol.com] [RS] SOTW-Extra-verbose [Elwestrand ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:20:13 EST From: RockinRonD@aol.com Subject: [RS] Heaven Sent To me, "Ascent" is an ages old biblical story of someone who sinned all his life only to confess his sins at the time of his execution, ask forgiveness from God and then be granted entrance into heaven. In the Catholic faith, even one who never went to church and sinned all his/her life without confessing, all that person need do is make an act of contrition and he/she is granted absolution by a priest, which means they are going to heaven rather than hell. Richard may have been inspired to write this song during a time of some serial killer (Ted Bundy comes immediately to mind) being executed--God knows we've had more than our share of them of late. But I do think it is interesting to view this as a sequel to "By Now" because it makes the song even grizzlier and more foreboding than it already is. Ewwww is right. Oh, and yes, I do like this song alot. I don't even want to think why. RuminatinRon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:48:08 -0500 From: Roxylee Subject: [RS] Ascent Since this is a song about a man being saved, my reply includes scripture about salvation. If anyone is offended by Christianity, just delete now. My impression is that the guy realized, the night before his execution, that he was in dire need of forgiveness from Jesus, the Savior, and he has truly repented of his sins. >I have no explanation >I cannot be of help >But you see my situation >I don't recognize myself To me, this suggests he was transformed, translated over from darkness to light. He doesn't recognize himself because he is born again, a new creation in Christ Jesus. He was miraculously delivered from sin, and is totally new. >There was never any warning >There was never any sign >It's just that I woke up this morning >And eternity was mine This seems that he was praying just before falling asleep, and God answered his prayers, only he didn't realize it until he woke up. >Search my family history >And analyze my dreams >Expose my contradictions >Reduce me to the mean >What you find might be revealing >It might very well be true >But you don't know what you're dealing with >You haven't got a clue To the natural mind, none of this makes any logical sense, but the scripture states: 1Co 1:18 For the word of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us who are saved it is the power of God. >God knows I don't deserve this >After all the pain I've caused None of us deserve divine forgiveness, but it is freely given to all who repent and turn away from sin to obey God. >But do me one last service >Before I take that walk >Before my soul flies from this chamber >And heaven beckons me across >Read me what the Savior said >To that thief upon the cross Lu 23:43 And he said to him, Truly I say to you, Today you will be with me in Paradise. He knows he was transformed, but needs to hear the promise to give him courage before going to his death. That's my interpretation as a believer. Peace, Roxylee ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 06:53:35 -0800 From: Ocean Leighton Subject: [RS] SOTW:verbose I've listened to this song many times, always noting the passing melodic feeling in monotone. This song does not capture [for me] the incisive nature of "Fishing" or "By Now". It seems more like a conceptual overview. I was surprised to read this song is about a man taking his last breaths of life before execution. I had lost some of the words in the music...I would always hear (explanation to follow): "But you see my situation, I don't recognize myself it happened without reason... I have no explanation... There was never any warning There was never any sign It's just that I woke up this morning And eternity was mine ...you don't know what you're dealing with you haven't got a clue... God knows I don't deserve this After all the pain I've caused But do me one last service Before I take that walk Before my soul flies from this chamber And heaven beckons me across Read me what the Savior said To that thief upon the cross" In these words I heard Jesus lamenting before he rose from the cave after three days and "ascended into heaven". (I'm not actually of Christian orient, but I know RS makes reference in some songs to this belief...the most interesting being the Ballad of Mary Magdalene.) And he's saying, he just doesn't understand why the persecutors completed their deed. I saw it as him having caused pain for his followers, friends...and he would like forgiveness for something he had no control over, something that happened without warning, reason, or explanation. (SPOILER HERE) As happened in the film "Dead Man Walking" [poignant], the murderer, in the 11th hour, confessed. The person in this song does not take responsibility for actions...just wants absolution without admittance. It's funny to me how interpretation can be so different from perhaps, the original meaning. As I've been listening to Ascent (over and over) I'm struck by the appropriateness of the following song. A little more humble despair... about Wellfleet on Cape Cod where I used to live and gaze out across the Atlantic Ocean... missing the Blue Divide in Ohio- Ocean "If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are." ~Zen proverb ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:59:13 -0500 (EST) From: "L. Davis" Subject: Re: [RS] Heaven Sent Richard says he wrote it after seeing a late-night movie on this topic -- can't remember the movie or the theme, just about someone on death row. I know we're not supposed to read all these songs as some sort of key to Richard's own spiritual thoughts and so on, but you just can't help noticing a "grace" theme/debate, "we are saved by grace alone" (Easy street) and Ascent, and Transit, then there is always "I wish I could believe" -- I guess as I get older I'm appreciating more that one can struggle with and play with these ideas without ever necessarily finaly resolving the issue within yourself. And that the idea of "grace," the promise of Jesus that if you believe you will be saved, will have eternal life, that so impressed me during a brief high-school converseion period, is at the very least, a STORY that is so powerful and absorbing that it will inevitably serve as inspiration for a spiritually-interested story-writer like Richard. Let's not forget "beyond the iron gates." Sometimes I almost feel as if Richard is having us on and is really a lot more "christian" committed than he'd have us believ4e -- maybe thinks it isn't politically correct. Or maybe old habits die hard. Or maybe you can take the boy out of the seminary but you can't take the seminary out of the boy, which is my theory about Richard. (Add to that Buddhist monastery, since he was in one of those too.) What makes Richard's songs so interesting is that on the one hand, they are vivid personal stories, without taking a position, but on the other hand, you can "read" them as intellectual debate! And because there isn'ta clear "answer" we all get to agonize over them and take more out of them, some of which we put in. Like Hamlet! lisa davis (work is a little slow this morning) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:08:41 EST From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] SOTW:verbose >> As happened in the film "Dead Man Walking" [poignant], the murderer, in the 11th hour, confessed. The person in this song does not take responsibility for actions...just wants absolution without admittance. << Ironically, I've heard Richard say on a couple of occasions that someone missed the boat by not having "Ascent" be on the "Dead Man Walking" soundtrack. Can't say that I disagree with him. But it does seem to underscore the fact that the song is, indeed, what we think the song is about, rather than something hidden, deeper, or different. RG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:58:55 -0500 From: Elwestrand Subject: [RS] SOTW-Extra-verbose I think I see this song from a slightly different angle than most. Blue Divide was the last Richard album I purchased. About the same time of the purchase a friend of mine dropped dead. We were all stunned. And actually I went to four funerals in about six months. I think despite the narrator being an alleged criminal, the chorus applies beautifully to anyone who dies. "There was never any warning There was never any sign It's just that I woke up this morning And eternity was mine" This verse was really comforting to me. Yes my friend is gone, but now she has eternity. Not only that but, now she knows more than I will ever know while I am alive. I think that the chorus is the speaker speaking from the afterlife and that the verses are before his/her death. I think the speaker is saying that not only don't we have a clue about who they were when they were alive or how it felt to be them, but also that we have no clue about what it means to be face-to- face with death(and possibly what it means to be the cause of someone's death).Maybe what I really like about it is the line "you haven't got a clue." Don't make assumptions that you understand the motives for his/her behavior. If you haven't lived his/her life you never will. Don't insult them by trying - it is not that simple. I also think that the speaker has the same world weary voice of the speaker in Waiting For the Storm and You Stay Here. He is too worn out to be afraid. He just wants to hear a comforting prayer and leave this world. I also don't think he necessarily repents either. He admits to "all the pain I've caused." But we don't know what that means. What exactly did he do? We don't know. A non-criminal person could utter the same words. I think that's the beauty of Richard's songwriting. We don't know what he did or didn't do. We only know he feels guilty enough to not fight. I do not think this song is a sequel to "By Now." I think the perpetrator in "By Now" is a calculated serial offender. I get the impression that whatever this person did, it was not calculated, but a crime of passion: "It happened without reason It happened just like that I've no more information Beyond the simple fact." If anything I think it would be more likely about a protagonist like the one in "Sonora's Death Row." There is something really haunting and beautiful about this song. It is interesting to me because I HATE By Now. Richard's voice and the quiet music are amazing on this track. Looking forward to hearing more of you ideas on this song. E ASCENT I have no explanation I cannot be of help But you see my situation I don't recognize myself It happened without reason It happened just like that I've no more information Beyond the simple fact There was never any warning There was never any sign It's just that I woke up this morning And eternity was mine Search my family history And analyze my dreams Expose my contradictions Reduce me to the mean What you find might be revealing It might very well be true But you don't know what you're dealing with You haven't got a clue There was never any warning There was never any sign It's just that I woke up this morning And eternity was mine God knows I don't deserve this After all the pain I've caused But do me one last service Before I take that walk Before my soul flies from this chamber And heaven beckons me across Read me what the Savior said To that thief upon the cross There was never any warning There was never any sign It's just that I woke up this morning And eternity was mine ________________________________________________ Get your own "800" number Voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V3 #86 **********************************