From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V3 #59 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Saturday, February 24 2001 Volume 03 : Number 059 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Re: To Sharon, Sinead O'Connor & More on 2000... [Tom926@aol.com] [RS] More on Senile Grammies [RockinRonD@aol.com] Re: [RS] Old as the Hills [Deb Woodell ] Re: [RS] More on Senile Grammies [SMOKEY596@aol.com] Re: [RS] More on Senile Grammies [Rongrittz@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 05:44:47 EST From: Tom926@aol.com Subject: [RS] Re: To Sharon, Sinead O'Connor & More on 2000... Sharon, I just discovered Fairground Attraction this year and am majorly in love with Eddi Reader. Now SHE and Richard would be a VERY interesting duo combo. Which of her solo albums is the best? I am alas on a very very strict budget these days, so I have to be careful what to buy. Oh and I forgot to add Sinead O'Connor's album to the list for 2000.Best thing she has done in ages. She is a kook, but that--and that amazing voice--is what makes her so interesting.Hmmm, she and Richard are both ex-Catholics who left the church, both have strong Celtic influences running through their work, both are socially progressive (remember "Black Boys on Mopeds"--one wonders if they were on the Turnpike with our dear nun)....hmmm, I smell duet here. And as a followup to 2000 comments, I will stick to my guns on that one. Every year around the time the Village Voice's Pazz & Jop poll comes out (which is the most interesting of the critics polls being a poll of hundreds of professional critics--this year Richard was in 782nd place with Dar's Album in 544th. Richard's Wisteria got one vote for single of the year. You can access the whole thing at http://villagevoice.com/specials/pazznjop/00/index.php3 As the poll skews toward hipper than thou types these are pretty amazing showings), I make up my own lists of top tens. Last year, for instance, I "shortlisted" 37 cds for the top ten; in 1998, 29 cds; in 1997, 26. This year was the first time when I couldn't even come up with ten. Now I am not saying that there wasn't a lot of GOOD music in 2000 but, IMHO, there weren't a lot of GREAT *ALBUMS* last year which were consistently wonderful all the way through. So that is why I thought it would be such a wonderful idea to compile all the top ten lists that came in...so I can check out what I missed. I trust the opinions of people on here far more than I would an ordinary critic, because we all have similar tastes--we love quality singers/songwriters for whom the song comes first and not the video. I have been unemployed most of the year and didn't have a lot of disposable income, so I couldn't check out alot of people (I am still missing Amy Rigby's new one for example). I thought such a list would be a good "buying guide" for the future. And hey, I am a gay, Irish New Yorker...we love good intellectual debates. LOL. Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 08:27:55 EST From: RockinRonD@aol.com Subject: [RS] More on Senile Grammies One more word on this Grammy crap...if this organization is so unaware that they don't recognize that there is a genuine, legitimate music category called Singer/Songwriter, then there is just no point in ever taking them seriously. Ever. And how could there be a Music Awards without recognizing the Folk category? I firmly believe that the Acoustic Music community ought to create its own awards. There's just too much talent out there that goes unrecognized. Ron ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 08:02:39 -0800 (PST) From: Deb Woodell Subject: Re: [RS] Old as the Hills Elwestrand wrote, > Well at the ripe old age of 32, I finally had to > give up on the > radio station of my youth, KROQ in LA. See the > problem was I > didn't like ANYTHING they played anymore. But one > day it all > became clear to me why; I am not a fifteen year old > boy! So I > cut the chord I had begun in fifth grade. > I will have to say though that it is comforting to > no longer > follow popular music much. I know that my singer > songwriters may > go in slightly different directions occasionally, > but they will > never sacrifice quality altogether. Yeah, I cut that chord years ago, myself. About 21 years ago, I had a brief stint in owning a record store and I listened exclusively to rock stations (Journey, Boston, Heart, etc.), but maybe 10 years ago, I cut that chord. I jumped into what was probably the last decent stretch for country music (for me, anyway), when they occasionally playd a Mary Chapin Carpenter or Rosanne Cash, and I even kind of got into Travis Tritt, Marty Stuart (some of the hatless) guys), but gravitated to whatever they call this (singer-songwriter/Americana), mixed with a liberal dose of NPR. That dose is a bit less, but still a decent part of my diet. I agree, it is comforting to cut ties with the more popular stuff. I don't really like being part of what everyone else likes anymore. I couldn't tell you 3/4 of the nominees for any of the Grammys, but since I work at a newspaper and they post the folk, blues and country (there are still some good ones) winners in advance, I know by 7 pm if my choices win the prizes. Yay, Emmylou!! And don't have to wait all night to see if something I have no clue about wins. So, Elwestrand, you're not getting older, you're getting better. Or, as we like to say on the Darlist, you're aging well! Deb ===== You can take the rock band away from the girl and think you've tamed her. But, she'll just pick up an acoustic, give you that innocent little girl grin, quietly laugh and say? "Nevah!" Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 11:39:26 EST From: SMOKEY596@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] More on Senile Grammies >>>And how could there be a Music Awards without recognizing the Folk category? <<< Dave Alvin won for best traditional folk album, and Emmylou won for best contemporary folk album. I know, it's not enough, and I agree that there should be another type of awards program out there...for REAL music. :-) SMOKEY "The memory is a useful thing, store the good stuff in the easy to reach places, put the rest in the attic with the cobwebs where it belongs..." - -Ellis Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 11:56:59 EST From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] More on Senile Grammies << One more word on this Grammy crap...if this organization is so unaware that they don't recognize that there is a genuine, legitimate music category called Singer/Songwriter, then there is just no point in ever taking them seriously. Ever. And how could there be a Music Awards without recognizing the Folk category? >> Well, that opens up a big can of Pandora's worms now, doesn't it? I'm sure we're all well aware of the question that comes up periodically on lists like this one: "What is Folk music?" And WE can't even come up with a suitable answer. What's more, *I* can't even convince myself that there's a legitimate music category called "Singer/Songwriter" anymore than we can truly identify "Folk music." Theoretically, isn't anyone who writes their own songs a Singer/Songwriter? So, would Eminem qualify? Or is it just anyone who plays acoustic guitar? Does that leave out keyboard players? Is it the singer/songwriter or the style of the music that would determine eligibility? Is Patty Griffin's "Living With Ghosts" a Folk album and "Flaming Red" Rock, while Bruce's "Born to Run" Rock and "Nebraska" Folk? What differentiates a Country singer who plays an acoustic guitar from what you'd consider a "Folk" singer who plays one? What about "Folk" singers who don't write their own songs? Just for fun, I grabbed a handful of issues of _Performing Songwriter_ magazine from my basement, to see if I might spot some sort of thread that would tie together these artists to the point where you could give an award for what they do. And the eight issues I grabbed had the following "singer/songwriters" on the cover: Ani DiFranco Tom Petty Goo Goo Dolls Lenny Kravitz Ray Charles Tom Waits Babyface Emmylou Harris See the problem? The "Contemporary Folk" Grammy category that was established years ago, while taking great steps in the right direction, muddies the discussion even further. Johnny Cash and Emmylou Harris . . . Folk music? In what bizarre, alternate universe are they Folk? Go into 99% of the music stores in the WORLD and you'll find them in Country. I know, music stores certainly aren't a measure, but we've gotta start somewhere. And in MY local store, Cash/Harris are Country. Of course, the Indigo Girls and Shawn Colvin are in the Rock section, so go figure. Seems to me that when we've all had discussions like these in the past, the one thing on which we've agreed is that the one thing that all Folk music has in common is a certain sense of "heart." But how do you put your finger on what that is to the point where you could give an award for it? Look, I'm playing devil's advocate, and I know what you're saying: you want there to be a place where the Richards and Lucys and Dars and Cheryls and Daves can be given their due. But the Grammies ain't it. And to your last point: >> I firmly believe that the Acoustic Music community ought to create its own awards. There's just too much talent out there that goes unrecognized. << Unrecognized by whom? I would argue that the Acoustic Music community *absolutely* recognizes its talent. Because that community is US, and I don't think WE need a special award for Richard or Dar or Lucy in order for their contribution to our sense of "What Makes Good Music" to be validated. And for the Great Unwashed, you think the fact that some obscure performer named Richard Shindell won some obscure award called, oh, the "Neffy" would make them run out and buy "Somewhere Near Paterson?" Not likely. If they don't get it By Now, they never will. RG ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V3 #59 **********************************