From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V2 #360 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Monday, December 4 2000 Volume 02 : Number 360 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Re: Mary Magdalen [Tom926@aol.com] [RS] Mary Magdalen [patrick t power ] Re: [RS] Re: Mary Magdalen ["Julia A . Case" ] Re: [RS] Re: Mary Magdalen [Rongrittz@aol.com] Re: [RS] Re: Mary Magdalen ["Julia A . Case" ] Re: [RS] Re: Mary Magdalen [Loracevoll@aol.com] Re: [RS] Re: Mary Magdalen [cyrano@best.com] [RS] Oh My G*d! ["Dupas, Edward (E.M.)" ] [RS] G-d and this list ["jenna faith strizak" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 05:42:21 EST From: Tom926@aol.com Subject: [RS] Re: Mary Magdalen regarding Norman's post: << I would say that Richard's song is a response to Kazantzakis rather than being based on his works. _The Last Temptation of Christ_ focuses on the development of Jesus' character. He starts off as a real wimp, BTW. Mary is seen through his eyes. Richard's song is Jesus seen through Mary's eyes. >> Well Norman, Richard attended a seminary and I am sure he is well aware that the question of whether Mary Magdalen and Jesus were lovers/married has a very very long history that predates the Kazantzakis book. I am not by any means Mr. Theologian, but I remember when my friend Rosemary wrote a very beautiful poem about Mary washing Jesus' feet with her hair, she told me that the idea of Mary being the lover/wife of Jesus had been debated in theological circles for many years. As a gay man who has left the Catholic Church (hey, why be a member of an organization who thinks child molesters are nicer people than you?), I have some serious questions with the theology *of the Church.* The fact that the Bible and its various books was in fact "voted" on (and the Gnostic Gospels, for instance, were dropped after the vote), makes me wonder if there is something to the story. According to this tradition, Jesus was of the House of David and Mary of the House of Abraham (don't quote me on this--it could be someone other than Abraham). Their marriage would unite the two royal houses of Israel again. And that they were married and the Romans knew of their heritage and executed Christ on the pretext of heresy when they were really trying to stop the uniting of the two royal houses and the political implications of that. No wonder Richard was so tuned into Mary Magdalen: she is both spiritual and political grist. I know that Amazon has a book for sale on the subject but I can't remember the title. Oh and I still think Richard should cover the Magnetic Fields song "Abigail, Belle of Kilronan": Abigail can you feel my heart in the palm of your hand and do you understand why I can't stay Abigail an evil wind is blowing through the land and they need every man to drive it away When I come home if I come home you'll be a grown woman When I come home if I come home don't be alone, Abigail, Belle of Kilronan Abigail 's gonna be the beauty of County Galway and she will live always in a world of love Abigail I'm off to the war but you can be sure I will know you're what I'm fighting for... (repeat) It really is a beautiful ballad out of the WWI tradition. MF does it with electronic instruments, but I bet RS could do it with guitar, uillean pipes and drum. Tom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 07:25:03 -0500 From: patrick t power Subject: [RS] Mary Magdalen Tom noted: <> There remains debate about whether or not Mary Magdalene was THE Mary who washed Jesus' feet with her tears. There were a number of Marys in Jesus' life at that time -- his mother, Magdalene, Martha's sister and another one who was indeed a prostitute. Pat ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 09:07:06 -0500 From: "Julia A . Case" Subject: Re: [RS] Re: Mary Magdalen the ballad of Mary Magdalen is my FAVORITE Richard song... I listen to it often... my favorite line is "It was either his career or mine..." Julie - -- [ Julia Anne Case ] [ Ships are safe inside the harbor, ] [Programmer at large] [ but is that what ships are really for. ] [ Admining Linux ] [ To thine own self be true. ] [ Windows/WindowsNT ] [ Fair is where you take your cows to be judged. ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 10:36:08 EST From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] Re: Mary Magdalen >> my favorite line is "It was either his career or mine..." << I like that line, too, but it always bothers me when people who are hearing the song for the first time laugh at that line. Maybe it's nervous laughter, I don't know, but I was reminded of it yesterday when I was listening to the "Scenes From a Blue Divide" promo CD with the live version of "Mary Magdalene," and people just cracked up at it. It's similar to the way they laugh at the "They could barely move" line in Dar's "Mortal City" or the "I'm glad he didn't check" line from "When I Was a Boy." Hey, this is serious stuff. RG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 11:39:54 -0500 From: "Julia A . Case" Subject: Re: [RS] Re: Mary Magdalen Quoting Rongrittz@aol.com (Rongrittz@aol.com): > I like that line, too, but it always bothers me when people who are hearing the song for the first time laugh at that line. Maybe it's nervous laughter, I don't know, but I was reminded of it yesterday when I was listening to the "Scenes From a Blue Divide" promo CD with the live version of "Mary Magdalene," and people just cracked up at it. > Have you heard the Dar cover of the song? She does a GREAT job... Julie - -- [ Julia Anne Case ] [ Ships are safe inside the harbor, ] [Programmer at large] [ but is that what ships are really for. ] [ Admining Linux ] [ To thine own self be true. ] [ Windows/WindowsNT ] [ Fair is where you take your cows to be judged. ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 12:06:33 EST From: Loracevoll@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] Re: Mary Magdalen In a message dated 12/04/2000 7:41:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, Rongrittz@aol.com writes: > > It's similar to the way they laugh at the "They could barely move" line in > Dar's "Mortal City" or the "I'm glad he didn't check" line from "When I Was a > Boy." > > Hey, this is serious stuff. > No, I think Richard and Dar put it there to break the tension. There's no way you write a line like, "glad he didn't check" and not expect people to laugh. And Richard *may* have put the career line in there to break up a song that will make a lot of people uptight. But then again, I would never claim to know RS's songwriting M.O. ..... .....Carol ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:24:19 -0800 From: cyrano@best.com Subject: Re: [RS] Re: Mary Magdalen > > It's similar to the way they laugh at the "They could barely move" line in > > Dar's "Mortal City" or the "I'm glad he didn't check" line from "When I Was > > a Boy." > > > > Hey, this is serious stuff. So is child molestation. Which doesn't stop Dar Williams from writing a song like 'Fliny Kind of Woman' which is not entirely dire and grim. So is death. Which doesn't stop me from laughing at some of Doc Holliday's black humour in the film 'Tombstone'. So is religion, and the idea of G*d. Serious subject matter does not negate the existence of things one might find amusing. Personally, I think that the 'his career or mine' line is funny, and not just the first time through. It's not Three Stooges poke-in-the-eye funny, nor is it Jim Carrey talk-with-my-ass funny. It's a funny that softens pain just a little. And in a serious subject matter, sometimes that's not only a welcome thing but a neccessary thing. - ------- cyrano@best.com I brought some orphans with me. Wanna see 'em? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 13:33:37 -0500 From: "Dupas, Edward (E.M.)" Subject: [RS] Oh My G*d! Alright. What is the reason for leaving out the middle letter in the word "God?" I have seen some of you doing it and have to admit I am ignorant about why this is done. Will someone please clue me in on this email etiquette? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 13:57:08 -0500 From: "jenna faith strizak" Subject: [RS] G-d and this list >>What is the reason for leaving out the middle letter in the word "God?" I have seen some of you doing it and have to admit I am ignorant about why this is done. Will someone please clue me in on this email etiquette?<< It's not email etiquette, it's Jewish etiquette. In that tradition (I don't know of any other specific traditions in which this is true also), writing the word in its entireity is considered disrespectful, and so the middle vowel is omitted so it can still be understood. Even in non-secular contexts, there are some names for G-d which are never written out, and are replaced by other letter combinations that still refer to G-d. I think I'm remembering this correctly from Hebrew School... :-) And while I'm posting, can I just say how much I really really really love this list? I rarely speak up here, and it's not really for lack of anything to say. It's just that you guys say it all so eloquently that I enjoy reading everyone's mature, thoughtful and insightful discussions so much that I rarely feel the need to pipe up. I'm on quite a few lists, all the usual folkie subjects, and I know I can always turn to this one for some intelligence. Especially when I am procrastinating. - -jenna who is now going back to writing a paper about Elvis, and can find no way to work Richard content in except to say that a cover of "In the Ghetto" might be cool in a weird kind of way ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V2 #360 ***********************************