From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V2 #320 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Wednesday, November 8 2000 Volume 02 : Number 320 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Fan-Tasticks [RockinRonD@aol.com] [RS] Amendmentz [Vanessa Wills ] Re: [RS] Fan-Tasticks [Deb Woodell ] Re: [RS] Fan-Tasticks [Katrin.Uhl@t-online.de] [RS] RE: shindell-list-digest V2 #318 ["Timothy Bruce" Subject: [RS] Amendmentz In the light of day, and with yet another cup of coffee working its way up to my brain, I thought I'd revise my earlier comments. What I *meant* to say, was that what gets interpreted as mystery and cool detachedness in men is often more likely to be interpreted as cold detachedness in women. That's all. Richard is without a doubt, one of the nicest entertainers I have met in my albeit short span of existence, and I certainly don't want to appear as though I were saying anything to the contrary, because it wouldn't be true. Richard doesn't *have* to come out after every show and greet his fans, but he does, and he's interested in what every fan has to say. That is rare and great in a performer who touches as many people as deeply as he does. He has been nothing if not extraordinarily kind to me, considering that like RonG said, he doesn't owe any fan anything more than quality albums for their money and a good show for the ticket price. I think the reason that the line is hard for some to draw is because people don't just engage with the music on some removed, intellectual level--it often does have a real and important effect on the personal lives of those who consume it. So sometimes it's hard to talk to the person who changed your life and treat them like a stranger. But you have to. Also, in my second post, I was just trying to get at the point that some entertainers take being stalker-weary to an extreme of being fan-weary in general. It's a little disheartening when a performer decides that you're too big a fan of their *music* when you haven't taken or even come close to taking any of those stalker-ish steps RonG listed. So like I said, Don't look at me funny because I have all of your CDs. It's important for both fans *and* artists to realize where fandom ends and stalkerism begins, but I understand that in a world like ours, ya gotta watch your back. I imagine some people will still disagree with me, but at least now I think I've described my position better and in less crack-high terms. . . Peace, Love, and Mischief, Vanessa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 07:43:00 -0800 (PST) From: Deb Woodell Subject: Re: [RS] Fan-Tasticks I also am fascinated by this topic. My full-time job is as a sports copy editor at the Philadelphia Daily News, but occasionally, when someone I like is coming to town, I get to do interviews and write advances. I know the idea is objectivity, but, frankly, that is a myth; I think journalists must recognize their biases and write impartially. Except of course, when someone I like comes to town, when my partiality helps me ask better questions, which usually translate into better answers, which help me write a better story. (Like all those people at CBS who love Richard, Dar and Lucy.) I also think my interviews help forge a certain kind of bond that is not friendship, but still more than the usual professional kind of relationship, perhaps because I am not out to *get* the person, just *get* a great interview and write a great story. That relationship, over time, has grown a bit with one particular performer, but I still felt it necessary to keep the relationship more or less one of professional courtesy. However (here's where it gets interesting), through an entirely different connection, via our common enjoyment of this particular artist, as discovered on a different email list, I became friends with someone to the point I consider her my best friend. And through circumstances completely unrelated to our friendship, my best friend now does the web site for that performer we both like, has stayed in the performer's home, and has hosted that performer in her home. So the social context becomes different altogether. But I think the right decision for me is that I no longer feel I can write about this person, since I believe that *does* stretch the bounds of impartiality. Not necessarily in reality, but appearance. But I don't consider myself a stalker. However, I've heard this person -- not the fan level of Britney Spears, by any stretch of the imagination -- has had people follow her to the motel and wait outside all night. Deb __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: 08 Nov 2000 15:52 GMT From: Katrin.Uhl@t-online.de Subject: Re: [RS] Fan-Tasticks > That crazy drunk woman at Fez about a year or so ago who jumped up > on stage and started singing with him is a case in point. What I saw that > night was a very spooked Richard Shindell in retrospect he seems to have taken it with good humor though. he was laughing and making jokes about it back in January already. Katrin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:52:38 -0600 From: "Timothy Bruce" Subject: [RS] RE: shindell-list-digest V2 #318 >>It got me to thinking a little bit...about fandom. I could certainly not be accused of stalking Richard or Dar, but Lucy is another matter. I really think she genuinely likes us fans and appreciates the continuing support we offer above and beyond buying "the products". One spends a good couple of meet-and-greets with her and you find yourself feeling strangely connected--in my case like a sibling relationship. And if her car broke down I would call in sick to work and offer drive her to the next gig. But, realistically, she lives in the largest metropolitan area in the country and has been in the "popularity business" for years. She's probably got more "real" friends than she can manage as it is....Still, she exudes the vibe that "You can be my friend, too." And the blurring of that line is what turns the fan into the fanatic.<< Generally a very nice discussion about a fascinating thread.....but please let's not paint me as a Lucy "stalker" quite yet! It was a rhetorical statement I made about myself. No-one has even hinted that I STALK Lucy...not even my wife, who you'd think would be the first in line! But a warm connection is indeed there and I'm sure not going to cross any boundaries and risk losing it. It may be due to the fact that we are almost exactly the same age, just passed through 40 together, both grew up in the upper Midwest, both interrupted our higher education to follow our musical muse, both starved the muse later to try to establish a professional career, and both feel the muse calling again to be true and follow our bliss. It's just that she broke out and did it and I feel somewhat constrained. (Oooh yah, then again there's that certain lack of natural guitar-playing ability and aversion to practice on my part that might be a factor as well!) This certainly hints of living my musical life vicariously, doesn't it? (Another mark of a stalker?) More precisely, it's living my folk guitar singer-songwriter life vicariously because I still perform at parties and in public on other instruments at least 2 or 3 times a month. I've detected a few similar parallels with Richard, too, but have never seen fit to bring them up at a meet-and-greet. One was his struggle to learn to sing and play guitar at the same time, which was mentioned at last weekends show in regards to "Just An Old Hobo". I also know what it's like to have carved out a musical niche somewhere, then become a parent of small children with a resident alien who every month or so reminds you how badly she wants to move back to "the old country", (most recently threatened in the event that the Republicans succeed in taking over the government of this country. (I try to tell her, "Hey! Human sacrifice went out with the Aztecs! I don't think that's going to affect the outcome!) So is this "vicariously experiencing" a bit of a performer's rise to greater appreciation and prominence a warning sign? Methinks not.... ETimothy ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V2 #320 ***********************************