From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V2 #318 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Wednesday, November 8 2000 Volume 02 : Number 318 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Spring on my mind -- and a review of 11/3 St. Paul ["Timothy Bruce" ] Re: [RS] Spring on my mind -- and a review of 11/3 St. Paul [TRNMT@aol.co] [none] ["Adam Watson" ] Re: [RS] Spring on my mind -- and a review of 11/3 St. Paul [Rongrittz@ao] Re: [RS] Spring on my mind -- and a review of 11/3 St. Paul [Vanessa Will] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 10:18:23 -0600 From: "Timothy Bruce" Subject: [RS] Spring on my mind -- and a review of 11/3 St. Paul >>the song "Spring" was in my mind this afternoon as I finally got in most of the fall bulbs, which I hope will be offered up in, say, April or May.<< I brought my copy of the four-song promo of "Spring" for Richard to sign last Friday night. Reason? Because it's Spring in Argentina!! He dated it 11/03/2000 and added "Happy Spring!" Here are the set-lists. (Better late than never, right?) 1) Mayday Cafe 2) Cool in the Backseat (?) 3) I Know What Kind of Love This Is (A long, long meander into politics....somewhat humorous....solidly Democratic!) 4) Snowman 5) Jeremy Newborn Street 6) In the Hush Before the Heartbreak 7) Taxigirl 8) Mr. Right Now 9) A Hundred Names 10) Best Black Dress 11) Angela (This Town Is Wrong?) (Standing ovation) (E) Easy People As mentioned before, the equipment gods were looking upon Richard and Radoslav quite differently that day. Rad got a beautiful black grand piano and Richard had to borrow Nerissa's guitar because the airline had almost, but not completely, lost his guitar. He related that he had just succeeded in consoling himself that his misfortune was actually an opporuntiy as he is not overly impressed with his current guitar (which was new and expensive). In his musings, he had all but spent the compensation money on a new guitar. Then the airline called and said they'd located his. 1) Confession 2) Just An Old Hobo 3) Wisteria 4) Ballad Of Mary Magdelene 5) Fishing 6) Are You Happy Now 7) Abuelita 8) Sitting On Top Of The World 9) You Stay Here 10) Sparrows Point 11) Transit (E) Sing Me Back Home This report almost did not get written. I was talking to a couple of young women during the break and one related how the other was a huge Richard fan. I couldn't help but inquire if she were a lister. The two of them picked up on that thread to express how they thought "lists" were scary and likely populated by stalker types....but.....then again...I wasn't one was I? It got me to thinking a little bit...about fandom. I could certainly not be accused of stalking Richard or Dar, but Lucy is another matter. I really think she genuinely likes us fans and appreciates the continuing support we offer above and beyond buying "the products". One spends a good couple of meet-and-greets with her and you find yourself feeling strangely connected--in my case like a sibling relationship. And if her car broke down I would call in sick to work and offer drive her to the next gig. But, realistically, she lives in the largest metropolitan area in the country and has been in the "popularity business" for years. She's probably got more "real" friends than she can manage as it is....Still, she exudes the vibe that "You can be my friend, too." And the blurring of that line is what turns the fan into the fanatic. Big Lucy show just announced: Red House Records presents Lucy Kaplansky Saturday, December 2nd at the Cedar Cultural Center in South Minneapolis. That makes Dar in October, Richard in November, and Lucy in December. BINGO! Timothy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 19:59:09 EST From: TRNMT@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] Spring on my mind -- and a review of 11/3 St. Paul In a message dated 11/7/00 11:14:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, timothybruce@aeromix.com writes: << He related that he had just succeeded in consoling himself that his misfortune was actually an opporuntiy as he is not overly impressed with his current guitar (which was new and expensive). In his musings, he had all but spent the compensation money on a new guitar. Then the airline called and said they'd located his. >> The C Fox guitar? NT ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 02:49:26 GMT From: "Adam Watson" Subject: [none] To all, The show last night in Lawrence, KS was unbelievable...better than the first time I saw hime, but perhaps that is because I am a bigger fan. I took a friend who had never seen Richard before, and she was surprised I would drive 3 hours to see a folk singer playing in a church...but I know she now understands...The opening act, Brian Joseph, was entertaining, made me think of Ben Harper a little...my friend thoroughly enjoyed Joseph's set, but after Richard played she commented that "Richard put him to shame"...not to put down Joseph. He played the title tracks of all 4 albums, The Hobo Song, Lazy, Cold Missouri Waters, encored with Ballad of Mary Magdalene, and many others. I thought Next Best Western was particularly wonderful...Lorkovich was great as always. So there's my two cents, I didn't write down the set list as I feel it would have detracted from my experience, and I'm a far cry from a reviewer of music. I hope everyone enjoys the shows they are soon to attend. Have a good one. Adam Watson _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 00:41:42 EST From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] Spring on my mind -- and a review of 11/3 St. Paul >> It got me to thinking a little bit...about fandom. I could certainly not be accused of stalking Richard or Dar, but Lucy is another matter. I really think she genuinely likes us fans and appreciates the continuing support we offer above and beyond buying "the products". One spends a good couple of meet-and-greets with her and you find yourself feeling strangely connected-in my case like a sibling relationship. And if her car broke down I would call in sick to work and offer drive her to the next gig. But, realistically, she lives in the largest metropolitan area in the country and has been in the "popularity business" for years. She's probably got more "real" friends than she can manage as it is....Still, she exudes the vibe that "You can be my friend, too." And the blurring of that line is what turns the fan into the fanatic. << Just wondering . . . what do you do that makes you think you're a Lucy stalker? Show up at her house uninvited? Call her at home? Or is it just a matter of you seeing her whenever she comes to your town? Look, I've seen Richard Shindell in concert over 35 times in the last five years, but I'd no more consider myself a Richard stalker any more than I'd consider someone to be a New York Mets stalker if they'd gone to 35 Mets games in the last five years. But I find the issue of fan/fanatic/stalker to be absolutely fascinating. To me -- and I know I'm opening up a can of Pandora's worms here, because it will be perceived as an indictment of many people 'round these parts -- the line starts to get crossed when you start trying to insinuate yourself into the artist's personal life. When you shower him/her with gifts at every show. When you expect the artist to greet you by name, and are disappointed when they don't. When you feel that a list such as this gives you carte blanche to discuss the artist's private life. Basically, when you want more of the artist then just his/her music. I expect nothing from Richard Shindell other than to put out a CD every few years and to give me my money's worth when I see him in concert. Period. But I find something you said to be both interesting and frightening, unless I'm misreading what you're saying . . . and that's your point that it's LUCY'S fault that fans become fanatics become stalkers, simply by exuding a "you can be my friend" vibe. Perhaps she'd be wiser to adopt Richard's more distant, more aloof, less "chummy" approach. Because -- believe me -- I've seen what happens when fans allow themselves to cross the line with celebrities, to expect more than what's offered on a CD, just because the celebrity opened the door a crack. And it ain't pretty. RG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 02:17:57 -0500 From: Vanessa Wills Subject: Re: [RS] Spring on my mind -- and a review of 11/3 St. Paul Hmm, in the name of procrastination, I, Vanessa, shall post for the first time in too long a time. Rongrittz@aol.com wrote: > Look, I've seen Richard Shindell in concert over 35 times in the last five > years I definitely thought you'd seen him more times than that. Am I in the danger zone because that number seems only slightly more frequent than what should be standard? ;-) (Note: That is a rhetorical, hopefully humorous, question). > [You cross the line] When you shower him/her with gifts at every show. OK, yes--maybe if you do it at *every* show, that would be weird. But aren't there people on the list who bake goodies for various Cry3 members? That's just cute, it's not stalker-ish. And I gave Richard a very small, not ostentatious, non-threatening housewarming gift last time I saw him (Falcon Ridge). I don't think that was weird, and I've never seen Richard be particularly good at pretending he's happy about something that he's not (not that I'm claiming to know him so well, or anything, since I probably haven't spoken to him for a total of more than 2 or 3 hours in my life). So, I would definitely agree with you, as long as we stick to the very narrow constraints of your statement--that is, if you do give gifts excessively, or gifts that are so extravagant that they are likely to engender a sense of obligation to the giver. Shoo, I'd be pretty scared if someone stuck a gift in my face every time I saw them, too. > When you expect the artist to greet you by name, and are disappointed when > they don't. I agree with the first part--particularly when you express that expectation to the artist. I once saw Duncan Sheik get harassed by a fan for at least three or four minutes because he did not remember her name. It was sad--especially since this is a guy who really does make an effort to reach out to his fans, and I could tell the episode pained him somewhat. However, one can scarcely be blamed for feeling that the experience of a concert might have been just a little bit cooler had (fill in the blank) remembered your name. But I think you're right, you shouldn't feel slighted if they don't, and if you do, you need to reevaluate. > I expect nothing from Richard Shindell other than to put out a CD every few > years and to give me my money's worth when I see him in concert. Period. I think that makes good sense, as a rule. And every time I get the chance to talk to Richard for a couple minutes after a show, I am pleasantly surprised that he remembers my name (I know, that's weird after seeing him--well, several times). But it just always makes sense to expect less in these cases. You're less likely to be disappointed if you don't expect the artist to remember the names of you, your kids, and your grandma's birthday. > But I find something you said to be both interesting and frightening, unless > I'm misreading what you're saying . . . and that's your point that it's > LUCY'S fault that fans become fanatics become stalkers, simply by exuding a > "you can be my friend" vibe. I don't think he's saying that it's Lucy's "fault" per se, insofar as that terminology implies a necessary assignment of blame. But there does appear to be some cause-and-effect there--when you try to make people feel like they are close to you, they just may start to feel as though they are close to you. > Perhaps she'd be wiser to adopt Richard's more distant, more aloof, less > "chummy" approach. OK, people, attack me all you want, BUT: it seems to me that if Lucy, or most any other woman, acted the way Richard did when meeting new fans, responded to their enthusiasm and adoration with the same apparent indifference (stress on the word "apparent"--I have no doubt that Richard is interested in the connection he makes through his music), and greeted the world with the same air of cool appraisal, most people would not use terms even as benign as "distant," "aloof," or "less chummy" to describe her. They would call her a cold bitch. (No, Ron, I don't think *you* would--but for most people, I think the generalization stands). What's good for the gander, in this case, ain't so good for the goose. > Because -- believe me -- I've seen what happens when fans > allow themselves to cross the line with celebrities, to expect more than > what's offered on a CD, just because the celebrity opened the door a crack. Ya damn straight. Peace, Vanessa ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V2 #318 ***********************************