From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V2 #177 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Tuesday, July 25 2000 Volume 02 : Number 177 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Mary Gauthier @ FRFF2K ["Dave McKay" ] [RS] Dave and Tracy ["Eley, Bill" ] RE: [RS] "War against silence" review ["Clary, John (CLRY)" ] RE: [RS] folkie success ["Clary, John (CLRY)" ] RE: [RS] folkie success ["Clary, John (CLRY)" ] Re: [RS] "War against silence" review [Vanessa Wills ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 14:50:39 +0100 From: "Dave McKay" Subject: [RS] Mary Gauthier @ FRFF2K My warmest, fuzziest moment of Falcon Ridge weekend was courtesy of Mary Gauthier ... I was in the Patty Larkin autograph queue after getting Mary to sign my Respond CD when a couple came up to her and offered up a copy of her own CD, which they'd just bought in the merch tent, to be signed. Mary noticed that the jewel case was cracked, and asked the couple to give her their address so she could personally mail them a replacement! :-) Nice one, Mary! Dave. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 08:53:27 -0500 From: "Eley, Bill" Subject: [RS] Dave and Tracy Just to add to the Dave and Tracy "love fest", I saw them just the week before at the Woody Guthrie festival (for the first time), and I was mesmerized by them. I don't have any CD's yet (and, no, I can't explain why I didn't rush over to the tent to buy them), but that will happen any day now. Another discovery at the Woodyfest was the Joel Rafael Band. I've listened to their latest CD about a million times in the last week. Anyone else follow them? Bill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 08:10:47 -0700 From: "Clary, John (CLRY)" Subject: RE: [RS] "War against silence" review Norman pondered (perhaps just rhetorically?): >>Just when did it happen that writers of substance were eliminated from having a possibility of mainstream success?<< Some artists still get away with it, but not the Folkies (excepting perhaps the likes of Tracy Chapman, although I've heard complaints that even she's a sell out -- what's wrong with making money anyway?). Maybe it's because Folkies aren't getting cosmetic surgery or showing bare mid-drifts on VH1? Hell, sex can sell anything, even substance. I wish my favorite artists all the success they can get. I want them to be able to eat and have shelter and make more music, but I'm glad we can sorta keep them to ourselves -- that the mainstream doesn't give a rat's ass about them. I'll keep buying their music and concert tickets. j a c ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 08:43:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Deb Woodell Subject: [RS] folkie success John wrote that Tracy Chapman might be considered a folkie success and I would like to add Mary Chapin Carpenter to that list. Yeah, maybe she is more country, or at least viewed that way by the media, but I remember hearing her first on the folk music radio shows in Philly. And I would bet she gets played more on WXPN in Philly than on the local country station. And then there is Jewel. And I'm ready for the onslaught of criticism, but I liked "Spirit" quite a bit. I totally ignored her when her first record came out, but I heard some things from "Spirit," including "Hands," (on 'XPN, in fact), and it was enough for me to get the record. And I agree with John that I wish only success for my fave artists -- however they themselves view success. I certainly think, for instance, Richard's success lies in the creation of such great music. (I know I'd love to write like that!) He certainly can make a career out of performing, so that's success in my book. And how many people get to play on CBS morning TV? Deb __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:18:19 -0700 From: "Clary, John (CLRY)" Subject: RE: [RS] folkie success Deb added: >>John wrote that Tracy Chapman might be considered a folkie success and I would like to add Mary Chapin Carpenter to that list<< I wholeheartedly agree, Deb, and sadly I have heard more "sellout" comments about Chapin than Tracy. I certainly was not saying Tracy is the only one. What about Emily and Amy? Nancy Griffith? I assume we're just talking about this era, but it's nice to see that Janis Ian is being appreciated still. What bugs me about the "successful" ones is that as soon as they start to make some money and gain a mainstream following the traditional Folkie "movement" shuns them and labels them sellouts. Why is that? Is success necessarily anti-folk? Isn't this the very reason many listers were expressing concern about Dar's success recently? To get this back to a Richard focus: I will be very sad if one day the only place I can see Richard is in an arena, but I wouldn't dismiss him as a sellout just because his music finally appealed to an audience of that size. It would be nice to think that 40,000 people in the SF area would be fighting for a chance to see him live (as long as they all didn't try to join the list I s'pose =) j a c ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:34:02 -0700 From: "Clary, John (CLRY)" Subject: RE: [RS] folkie success >>I will be very sad if one day the only place I can see Richard is in an arena, but I wouldn't dismiss him as a sellout just because his music finally appealed to an audience of that size.<< I should have added, if Richard's audience grew to that size here in my neck of the woods, it would be a positive reflection of my neighbors' taste, emotional development and maturity rather than reflecting negatively on Richard's writing. j a c ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 14:06:24 -0400 From: Vanessa Wills Subject: Re: [RS] "War against silence" review John Clary pondered, while pondering the lack of credibility that seems to come with commercial success as far as folk musicians are concerned: > Maybe it's because Folkies aren't showing bare midriffs on VH1? > Hell, sex can sell anything, even substance. Do you think Richard would try that? Now there's something I'd pay to see. ;-) Seriously, though, let me tell you why I am skeptical of successful artists, and no this is not a justification that I'm offering, but perhaps a rationalization. If an artist is extremely successful or gets much mainstream play, I tend to assume that they are not very good. This is because in general, for music to be relatively successful (and we're talking Warner Bros. $$, not like, the kind of money even an artist like Ani Difranco makes), it must appeal to the lowest common denominator. If I learn about an artist from the 12 year olds are bouncing along to his music, wearing her t-shirts, etc., I'm a lot less likely to investigate that artist than I would be if I had learned about them from one of my friends at college who works at the radio station, and/or is highly intelligent. Also, I see the drivel that gets played on MTV or VH1, and I assume that the people who decide to play Britney Spears can't have much taste, principles, musical knowledge, etc. So if I had heard Richard Shindell's name from a list of VH1 videos, and hadn't heard the music but knew it was popular among the teeny-bopper set, I wouldn't really go out of my way to find out what it was like. After, all it would be the kind of music that gets played on MTV, and that 12yo's like. The problem is that for a long time, I figured the Indigo Girls couldn't be very good, because they get played on mainstream radio. I was wrong. I think it's not so much that success cancels out the goodness of a particular artist or her music. It's just that if they're that successful, it's generally *because* their music ain't all that good. It has a beat you can move to and a half-naked 17 year old writhing around a fake set. So if an artist is hugely popular, I usually don't think it's worth my time to look into their stuff, when there are so many artists that I hear about from people like you guys on the discussion list, and I have yet to be disappointed by any of the recommendations you guys have made that I followed up on (think Peter Mulvey, Mary Gauthier, Dave and Tracy, etc., etc.). Of course, if I were to already like an artist, and then they became popular, I'd be a little sad, but also very happy, for all the obvious reasons. I don't think I'd label them a sell-out, though--that is, of course, unless they really did sell out for their success. Peace, Love, and Mischief, Vanessa - -- "Sometimes, you gotta do what you gotta do, and hope that the people you love will catch up with you." --Mary Gauthier, "Drag Queens in Limousines" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:38:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Thom Bassett Subject: [RS] Is there a doctor in the house? I just purchased copies of C3 and SNP during my lunch hour. Now I need a medical excuse sufficient to allow me to go home early to play them. However, said medical condition must allow me (a) to cycle home in mid-90s temps (my biking addiction won't allow otherwise) and (b) to return to work tomorrow hale and hearty. Any thoughts? Thom "Bears are made of the same dust as we, breathe the same winds and drink the same water. A bear's days are warmed by the same sun, his dwelling overdomed by the same blue sky, and his life turns and ebbs with the same heart-pulsings as ours." - John Muir _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V2 #177 ***********************************