From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V2 #107 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Tuesday, June 6 2000 Volume 02 : Number 107 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Speaking of Martin's ["Eley, Bill" ] [RS] Taylor vs. Martin [Elwestrand ] Re: [RS] Guitar miracles are possible! [ptpower@juno.com] Re: [RS] Speaking of Martin's [ptpower@juno.com] RE: [RS] Taylor vs. Martin ["Clary, John (CLRY)" ] RE: [RS] Taylor vs. Martin ["Clary, John (CLRY)" ] [RS] Falcon Ridge Camping [Graham Gudgin ] [RS] More guitar stuff. [Rongrittz@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 10:35:43 -0500 From: "Eley, Bill" Subject: [RS] Speaking of Martin's Since no one on the list seems shy about discussing Martin guitars, I have a question. I'm learning the guitar, and I've always thought that I'd get a Martin eventually (just because). I can't find anywhere (even in the catalog on the website) a description of the different series, and the different guitars in each (other than the raw specs). I get a different answer every time I talk to someone at a music store. I know they differ in size (?), materials, cost, etc., but how does one select the series (and the guitar in that series)? Are the different series meant for different styles of music? I suspect the answer is probably "The one that feels and sounds best to you", but maybe there's more to it than that. Sorry if these questions appear basic (or even stupid) - I've already admitted to being a beginner :-). Thanks for any input. Feel free to reply off-list if you don't feel this is an appropriate topic. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 16:14:36 -0400 From: Elwestrand Subject: [RS] Taylor vs. Martin Well, I am really ignorant of this "best possible guitar" subject, but several people I know have told me that Martin is not the best anymore and Taylor is a better company now. The list seems anti-Taylor. What do you guys think the differences are between Taylor's and Martin's? And are your love of Martin's "folkcentric" i.e.- they are the best guitars for folk? And leave me out of it I am neutral! ________________________________________________ Get your own "800" number - Free Free voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 16:28:17 -0700 From: ptpower@juno.com Subject: Re: [RS] Guitar miracles are possible! Timothy informed us: << There was a liner note on (Janis Ian's) "Hunger" that said her Martin D-18 #67053 had been stolen in 1972 and that she would still be very happy to get it back, no questions asked. Well, lo and behold, on her most recent CD, "God and the FBI" there was another liner note thanking someone personally for helping her get her Martin back. >> Janis wrote an article about this in "Performing Songwriter" a couple of years ago. It was quite an amazing turn of events. If I can find the magazine, I'll pass along which issue it was. Pat ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 16:23:33 -0700 From: ptpower@juno.com Subject: Re: [RS] Speaking of Martin's Bill queried: < << I know they differ in size (?), materials, cost, etc., but how does one select the series (and the guitar in that series)? Are the different series meant for different styles of music? I suspect the answer is probably "The one that feels and sounds best to you", but maybe there's more to it than that.>> At the time I bought my Martin, I was heavily into Loudon Wainwright III, and much of my playing over the years has always been very similar to his anyway, so my tendency was to go with a D-series guitar. I love the bottom-end sound that it provides. I tried out some Taylors at the time (many people I knew were raving about them) but didn't find them to have quite the "oomph" I was looking for at the bottom end. I have since discovered that Collings makes a really nice guitar that suits my tastes (though not my budget). Pat ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:59:38 -0700 From: "Clary, John (CLRY)" Subject: RE: [RS] Taylor vs. Martin Elwestrand asked: << Well, I am really ignorant of this "best possible guitar" subject, but several people I know have told me that Martin is > not the best anymore and Taylor is a better company now. The list seems > anti-Taylor. What do you guys think the differences are between Taylor's > and Martin's? And are your love of Martin's "folkcentric" i.e.- they are > the best guitars for folk? And leave me out of it I am neutral! >> For the record, I don't exactly hate Taylor. Two good friends of mine love their Taylors. For me it's a perception thing. Martin used to be my Holy Grail. I just don't want a cookie-cutter guitar for my next purchase. Taylor has done a great job of bringing good-quality, American-made, affordable guitars to the masses & shared their innovative design methods with the rest of the industry. We all benefit from that attitude and the other mass-builders have followed suit. I'd like a little more hands-on top tuning done on my next one -- like Bruce Weber did with my octave mandolin. Taylor necks are easy to play, and they sound good, but for me it's like when Garth Brooks started playing (& smashing)Takemines and then everyone one in the country music scene had to have one. Taylors got too popular for me to want to own one, that's all. Also, you can still buy a very fine feeling, sounding and looking Martin guitar. Don't worry. The 'Best' is such a subjective thing. I even think that La Si Do makes some good guitars despite the fact that I don't want to play their Seagulls. I have been so happy to get to play a borrowed Fender DG-8 after spending a day without a guitar and a new song idea running through my head the whole time. I agree that sometimes an 1887 Martin 0-28 is the only guitar that makes that old-timey sing-along "just right." Lot's of folk singers play guitars other than Martins. I think a cherry sunburst Gibson Hummingbird makes a great folk guitar. And speaking of tiny women and big guitars...Emy Lou Harris and a Gibson Southern Jumbo is a beautiful thing to behold. but I don't want to buy a Gibson either =) The guitar safari continues... j a c ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 14:20:41 -0700 From: "Clary, John (CLRY)" Subject: RE: [RS] Taylor vs. Martin BTW, the reason I got hooked on Martin is because one of my music partners (from about age 14 through 25) plays a 70's D-18 and I always coveted it. I could just pound on it all day long and it never got splatty, and yet it sounded good for light fingerstyle too. Funny thing is that he didn't pick it out or even buy it. His girlfriend bought it for him as a birthday gift. Nice gift, huh? She picked because of James Taylor. If only I was blind and didn't care what was inlayed on the peghead. j a c ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 18:06:38 -0400 From: Graham Gudgin Subject: [RS] Falcon Ridge Camping Excuse me for interrupting the guitar-list, but I just wanted to respond to an oldish topic, before it died. Nicole asked: >hey, i was wondering if CampDar also encompasses richard & lucy's fans as >well since there seem to be a lot of crossovers or if there are also seperate >camps for them. ...to which Vanessa and RockinRonD (who doesn't camp anyway!) responded with various ideas. Please, let's not seperate into Camp Dar, Camp Richard, Camp Lucy...etc... There's so much crossover it'll make it really difficult for some people to make decisions. I would like to be really non-divisive, embrace everybody (ooer!) and suggest that we stay camping together (as we have done in previous years). Besides it'll make for much more interesting late night song-circles! For those who do not know already, Shawn Kelly started a list for Falcon Ridge discussion (including ridesharing, and much more) some time ago. To be put on it, please email Shawn: skkelly@mit.edu Cheers, Graham. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 18:43:02 EDT From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: [RS] More guitar stuff. I know we're probably boring the hell out of non-guitar players, and maybe we should continue this offline, but . . . Charlie says: >> It's not just the instrument, but the hand that plays it, that makes the sound. << Pat says: >> I tried out some Taylors at the time (many people I knew were raving about them) but didn't find them to have quite the "oomph" I was looking for at the bottom end. I have since discovered that Collings makes a really nice guitar that suits my tastes (though not my budget). << John says: >> I just don't want a cookie-cutter guitar for my next purchase. Taylor necks are easy to play, and they sound good, but for me it's like when Garth Brooks started playing (& smashing)Takemines and then everyone one in the country music scene had to have one. Taylors got too popular for me to want to own one, that's all. Also, you can still buy a very fine feeling, sounding and looking Martin guitar. Don't worry. The 'Best' is such a subjective thing. << Everyone's at least a little bit right, and there are as many answers to the "What's the best guitar?" question as there are guitars. I'm actually thinking that Bill's answer to his own question, "The one that feels and sounds best to you," is the closest to correct. John and I have actually discussed this privately, and I think we agree to disagree on Taylors. I mean . . . and I'm just speaking PERSONALLY here . . . if a guitar is easy to play AND it sounds good, what's the difference if it's mass-produced . . . ESPECIALLY if it's an accepted fine name in guitars AND it's beautiful AND it's in your price range? Playability, sound, reputation, looks, and price. What else could you want in a guitar other than the ability to tell people that it's hand-made and that you spent $3000 on it? Of course, it's not just about looks: Many people hate the way Breedlove guitars look, and I'm about to buy one SPECIFICALLY for the way it looks. It's not just about brand name: My least favorite of ALL my guitars is my Martin HD-28. It's not just about price: I paid more for my Larrivee than my Taylor, but the Taylor makes the Larrivee sound like a Martin Backpacker, and I've played $3000 hand-made guitars that I've just hated. Hey, you thought this was going to be easy? The only recommendation I can make is this: when you visit a guitar store, don't just play the guitars yourself . . . have the salesperson (or a friend) play the guitar for YOU. Guitars aren't designed to sound good when you're sitting behind them, they're made to sound good to the people "out there." So put yourself in your audience's place, and you'll be amazed at the difference. And finally, don't buy cheap. One of the biggest mistakes beginners make is to buy cheap because they don't want to make a big expenditure if they're thinking they might not stick with it. But it's a Catch-22-and-egg-self-fulfilling-prophecy. If you buy a cheap guitar, it'll sound bad, and if it sounds bad you won't want to stick with it. If you buy a cheap guitar, it may be difficult to play, and if it's difficult to play you won't want to stick with it. So buy the best you can afford, but don't spend a lot JUST to spend a lot. Or, you could just buy the one that feels and sounds best to you. ;-) RG P.S. If you REALLY want to start a conflagration that will make the Mann Gulch in 1949 look like a backyard barbecue, head on over to rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic and ask 'em what they think. ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V2 #107 ***********************************