From: owner-sheryl-crew-digest@smoe.org (sheryl-crew-digest) To: sheryl-crew-digest@smoe.org Subject: sheryl-crew-digest V2 #322 Reply-To: sheryl-crew@smoe.org Sender: owner-sheryl-crew-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-sheryl-crew-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk sheryl-crew-digest Thursday, September 16 1999 Volume 02 : Number 322 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [sheryl-crew] (Sheryl crew ) sheryl crow day ["Spin spin suguar girlie" ] [sheryl-crew] SC and Friends Setlist [Riverwide3@aol.com] [sheryl-crew] rare sheryl mp3s? [Fumbler310@aol.com] [sheryl-crew] screensaver? ["Danny.Weddup" ] [sheryl-crew] TGS up to #69 on amazon.com! [Brad Boose ] [sheryl-crew] i found some articles... [anne.etienne@lemel.fr (Anne Etien] Re: [sheryl-crew] SCOM lyrics/TDK [Tracy Newton ] [sheryl-crew] more comments [Tracy Newton ] Re: [sheryl-crew] more comments ["Amie Gray" ] Re: [sheryl-crew] audio tape needed ["Teresa" ] [sheryl-crew] Letter to Sheryl Crow [Easter ] [sheryl-crew] ( sheryl crew ) Kevin gilbert ["Spin spin suguar girlie" <] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:44:17 +0100 From: "Spin spin suguar girlie" Subject: [sheryl-crew] (Sheryl crew ) sheryl crow day Ok just in case anyone has forgotten On VH1 Europe It`s Sheryl cRow Day so sit back and enjoy emmmm thats about it :) Judith This song is about being fed up dropping out of society and going into a bar and getting shitfaced"~Sheryl Crow The owner of the incredibly emm crap Sheryl Crow outlook http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palace/8589/TheSherylCro.index.html The Sheryl crow Voting Booth http://www.freevote.com/booth/judithbutlersc and if you are really bored checkout my home page at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palace/8589/jb.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:26:37 EDT From: Riverwide3@aol.com Subject: [sheryl-crew] SC and Friends Setlist Hi everyone, I took down the complete setlist for all of you that want to know. A Change Anything But Down Can't Cry Anymore Leaving Las Vegas It don't hurt w/ harmonica Angel w/ Sarah McLachlan Sweet Child O'Mine Am I getting through parts I&II Everyday is a winding road Strong Enough Gold Dust Woman - Stevie Nicks My favorite mistake Mississippi If it makes you happy w/ Hynde Happy - Keith Richards Sweet little rock and roller - Richards The difficult kind w/ Sarah McLachlan White Room - Eric Clapton Little wing - Clapton There goes the neighborhood Tombstone Blues (with everyone) All I wanna do (encore) The only way I could go to the concert was with my mom because she wouldn't let me go by myself, and being without a fellow Sheryl Crow fan friend, none of my nonfan friends would go. So, needless to say, we got there at a decent time :-( and sat in the middle-back where we watched most of the concert on the big screen next to the stage. I'll just say, my mom was not a fan of rock and roll before the concert, and she still isn't. Oh well, in Sheryl's words, I'll just have to keep on growing... Elaine (staying home today because school's canceled!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:47:28 EDT From: Fumbler310@aol.com Subject: [sheryl-crew] rare sheryl mp3s? Does anyone know of a site that has full lenght Sheryl MP3s or unreleased or live songs? Or does anyone have them and is willing to trade? I have a full lenght MP3 of Sheryl and Sarah McLachlan singing TDK from the Central Park concert if anyone wants to trade. steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:42:04 +0100 From: "Danny.Weddup" Subject: [sheryl-crew] screensaver? A couple of days ago Dee wrote (about the SCOM single): ''.....it did come with a small poster of Sheryl (with red flames in the background) AND a cool screen saver of the same picture. '' Well, I bought the single and I've watched the video, but I haven't found a screensaver. Please help me? Do you have to install it separately or something? (oh I feel stupid) Thanks, Danny PS: Which single had D'yer Maker on it? I like the song but I can't find it. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:11:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Brad Boose Subject: [sheryl-crew] TGS up to #69 on amazon.com! Must be the influence of the concert...TGS is all the way back up to number 69 on amazon.com's bestsellers!! The last time I checked, I think it was in the 200's ...can't wait for next week's billboard charts and see what happens :) === Brad __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:44:47 +0200 (MET DST) From: anne.etienne@lemel.fr (Anne Etienne) Subject: [sheryl-crew] audio tape needed Hi Crew, does anyone have the full audio tape for central park. as i am in dallas - and these stupid radios didn't broadcast it- i couldn't get it, so please help me. Anne A fan -obviously- in need... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:05:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Brad Boose Subject: Re: [sheryl-crew] audio tape needed I NEED ONE TOO PLEASE!!!!! === Brad __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:05:50 +0200 (MET DST) From: anne.etienne@lemel.fr (Anne Etienne) Subject: [sheryl-crew] i found some articles... hi crew, i found some articles on the web about central park... here are the addys: www.nypost.com/entertainment/14069.htm and: www.nypost.com/entertainment/14068.htm i hope you'll enjoy them... i'm still in the process of finding other articles so keep close to your pc anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:38:13 -0400 From: Tracy Newton Subject: Re: [sheryl-crew] SCOM lyrics/TDK Personally, the fact that her accent does come out a lot on The Globe Sessions is what I like most about the CD! She especailly hits that Southern accent in Members Only! (check out pronounciation of ice and eighties). I couldn't figure out why I liked that CD so much and it has a lot to do with the accent - - makes it a little more raw and natural. >Return-Path: >Reply-To: "Gregg Dempsey" >From: "Gregg Dempsey" >To: >Subject: Re: [sheryl-crew] SCOM lyrics/TDK >Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:51:07 -0700 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 >Sender: owner-sheryl-crew@smoe.org > >Christina's comment about Sheryl's speech is good >old Southern bootheel Missouri coming through. > >I met her in the Memphis Airport in May, >quite by accident early in the morning, when I >complimented her on the previous night's show, >she said thank yew. Kind of like the ewe, the sheep. >I know she was tired - you could see it in her eyes. >And when you're tired (or angry) you tend to run >towards the speech that is easiest for you, which >in her case would be the 30+ years she spent in >Missouri. > >And as far as you Americans go, sing the national >anthem right now - I challenge you to get all the words >right. You've been singing this song all your life and >you should know the words by now, but do you? >(I know, you may not care...) I think we should cut >Sheryl some slack if she messes up the words, >she's probably beating herself up AS it happens. >So she's singing along, kind of on automatic, >looking around, playing the guitar, the lights >are bright, look at that cute guy, oh no, did I >just say "ifficult"? So she's human like the rest of us! :) > >For you Canadians and the rest of you, I hope your >national anthems aren't as difficult to sing or >remember as ours. The US anthem is about >three octaves in breadth, and is actually one >big question. Sheryl has been at least smart >enough not to accept that kind of singing >assignment at a baseball or football game! > >Gregg. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Christina Clark >To: sheryl-crew@smoe.org >Date: Monday, September 13, 1999 3:17 PM >Subject: Re: [sheryl-crew] SCOM lyrics/TDK > > >>Is the line "and if they thought of rain"? >> >>Also, I do remember her saying "ifficult kind", I think this must happen >>when her mind wanders, that probably happened quite easially in such a >>small, intimate concert. >>Another thing I found funny is Sheryl pronouncing "you" as "jew",( not as >in >>Jewish, this is the easiest phonetical spelling I could come up with), in >>Anything But Down at Woodstock. "jew don't bring me anything but down" it >>always makes me giggle. >> >>Christina >> >>>Does anyone know the line in SCOM that comes between "He's got eyes of the >>>bluest skies" and "I'd hate to look into those eyes and see an ounce of >>>pain"? I've been wondering for a while. >> >> > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:02:39 -0400 From: Tracy Newton Subject: [sheryl-crew] more comments I am so happy Sheryl has taken interest in the Chicks. I have to admit that I like some country music, and I love the Dixie Chiks. I bought the Chicks' new CD, Fly, the other day and it is great! Can't wait to thumb through one of their CDs and see our girl either lending her voice or writing talent!! >Return-Path: >From: "Christina Clark" >To: "mailing list" >Subject: [sheryl-crew] more comments >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:29:29 -0400 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 >Sender: owner-sheryl-crew@smoe.org > >Just had a couple more comments to make about last night's show: > >-during EDIAWR Sheryl walks up to Ash on bongos and just stares at him, >standing really close, it is soo funny! >-I liked how she changed the lyrics to "are you strong enough to be my man, >our men" with the Dixie Chicks. > >Also The Dixie Chicks were on Rosie today, and Rosie asked about Central >Park in Blue, and they said it was great, that they felt so privaleged to be >a country act playing on stage with Sheryl Crow and Keith Richards, and >Natalie said Sheryl has taken them under her wing, I thought that was cute! > >Christina > >Also is it just me or did there seem like way more than 25,000 people there? >Does anyone know if there were any newspaper articles on the concert today, >or reviews? > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:06:37 -0700 From: "Amie Gray" Subject: Re: [sheryl-crew] more comments - ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy Newton > I am so happy Sheryl has taken interest in the Chicks. I have to admit > that I like some country music, and I love the Dixie Chiks. I bought the Chicks' new CD, Fly, the other day and it is great! Can't wait to thumb through one of their CDs and see our girl either lending her voice or writing talent!! amen tracy i'm keeping my fingers crossed -they were awesome to hear!!! ...and i totally agree w/you on FLY-i'm amazed if i buy a cd and like most of the songs on it and on this one there is only one i dont really care for..go figure....LOL amie ****************************************************** http://www.geocities.com/heartland/fields/6766 Have you registered? http://findme.org what's up in texas? ---->http://www.txcare.org Do you have your non-i.d.?? **************************************************** If it's not fun it ain't worth doing! ******************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:17:24 +0800 From: "Teresa" Subject: Re: [sheryl-crew] audio tape needed you can check it on alt.music.bootlegs someone is selling this item - ----- Original Message ----- From: Anne Etienne To: Sheryl Crow list Sent: Friday, September 17, 1999 3:44 AM Subject: [sheryl-crew] audio tape needed > Hi Crew, > does anyone have the full audio tape for central park. as i am in dallas - > and these stupid radios didn't broadcast it- i couldn't get it, so please > help me. > Anne > > A fan -obviously- in need... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:35:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Easter Subject: [sheryl-crew] Letter to Sheryl Crow Dear Sheryl, I'm a big fan of your music, but please take a break girl! You're all over the place! I'd hate to hear you get burn out or something. Please slow down too with all of these tv appearances you're doing, it ain't easy for us. ;) Best wishes and good luck. Sincerely, Katie Lynne ();) ***NOTE*** Only meant as a joke. Don't take it too seriously, even though it's what I think half the time. === ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." -John Lennon ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:24:54 +0100 From: "Spin spin suguar girlie" Subject: [sheryl-crew] ( sheryl crew ) Kevin gilbert Hellow there crew people Ok This is probarly not going to intrest you but while i was at school bunking off a very unimportant a level english lesson i surfed the net at school orginally i was going to stiffle my guilt and look for something on Margreat Atwoood or shakespear but i thought fuck it thats not me sooooo i serched for something bout Kevin Gilbert and i found thousands of web page basicallly slating Sheryl Crow and about how she killed ( methporlicy speaking ) him ( he was a nice looking bloke ) anyway i got in to Sheryl crow in the IIMYH period so i didn`t really get the first hand knowledge but when i read the below article i was emmm kinda felt Sorry for Sheryl Got this girl has some demons that people epecially in the media like to show to the world god i`mn sorry for rambling on but it just pisses me off that just because Sheryl was in the public eye she was credited for Kevin`s death judith The death of a former boyfriend and incriminating charges from former backing musicians are clouds hanging over Sheryl Crow's sunny career. by JOEL SELVIN San Francisco Chronicle A black hood covered his face. He wore a black skirt. His head was slumped against a leather strap chained to the headboard of the king-size bed in the sparsely furnished living room. Kevin Gilbert, 29, was dead. That much his manager could see peering in at the front door that morning last May. The Los Angeles County coroner's office sees four or five such deaths a year - "autoerotic asphyxiation," caused when people go one small step too far in depriving their brains of oxygen while they reach orgasm. It was a death without dignity, a random fall through the cracks of a secret life. Gilbert was a musical prodigy from San Mateo who could play any instrument; colleagues invariably called him "the most talented musician I ever met." To the rest of the world, though, his only real claim to fame lies in the credits to "Tuesday Night Music Club," the 1993 debut album by Sheryl Crow. "I saw something in Entertainment magazine that said Kevin Gilbert, the piano player on Sheryl Crow's record, had died," said songwriter David Baerwald, a member of the Tuesday club of the album's name. He paused, sadly shaking his head. "He hated that Sheryl Crow record and that's all he's going to be known for. The piano player? Roll over, Kevin Gilbert." When Gilbert first brought his girlfriend Sheryl to informal Tuesday-night songwriting sessions with his friends, he played a pivotal role in shaping an $85 million megahit. For her, the album brought three Grammys, stardom and an industry buzz that makes her forthcoming album one of the most eagerly anticipated releases this fall. But for him, it was hardly a triumph. "I don't know if I can ever forgive her," he wrote in his journal. "I don't hate her - I'm just soooo disappointed." In a way it's a classic Hollywood tale: Gifted boy artist meets girl artist, mentors her to success and is left in the dust - equal parts "Sunset Boulevard," "A Star Is Born," and "All About Eve." By any measure, Gilbert's career was a fitful tumble of brilliance and happenstance, a series of near misses and one hit that wasn't his. And his Tuesday night cohorts describe Crow, who refused to be interviewed for this story, as a marginally talented singer who exploited his skills and theirs in a ruthless grab for success. But this wasn't a movie, and so the real story is inevitably messier and more complex. As the circumstances of his death suggest, Gilbert had a dark side, a hidden face that made him an enigma to his friends. There was a history of anti-depressant use and a string of journal entries registering acute self-loathing and doubt. BRIGHT BEGINNING He had a promising start. As a teen-ager, Gilbert was given the run of Sensa Sound studio in Sunnyvale after hours; there he recorded tracks with his progressive rock group, Giraffe. In 1988 he won the U.S. and worldwide finals of a talent contest run by the Yamaha piano company. One of the judges, Pat Leonard, a producer for Madonna, invited Gilbert to make a record in Los Angeles. That album, "Toy Matinee," sold nearly 200,000 copies in 1991, thanks in part to an MTV video featuring actress Rosanna Arquette (whom Gilbert had dated). Gilbert put together a road version that included his then girlfriend on background vocals and second keyboard, Sheryl Crow. Making that album, at age 21, Gilbert met another record producer, Bill Bottrell, who became a kind of father figure. Bottrell brought him to sessions for Madonna and Michael Jackson; before long, Gilbert had sublet the space adjacent to Bottrell's Pasadena studio, Toad Hall. From there he set about recording his solo debut. Drawing on all his perfectionist instincts, along with his ingrained self-doubts, Gilbert didn't just work on his record; he suffered over it, recording and rerecording, polishing, tweaking, rethinking, redoing. "It was a long process," said Bottrell, who used to hear Gilbert thumping away through the common wall. "He sat over there endless nights." In August 1992, Bottrell convened a gathering of Gilbert and other musicians at Toad Hall with the simple agenda of collaborating for the fun of it every Tuesday night. "We were all good, not to be immodest," Baerwald said. "We were also all cynical, embittered by the process of pop music. We were trying to find some joy in music again." A party atmosphere predominated. "Bill would sift through (the music) the next morning while we were all nursing hangovers," drummer Brian MacLeod recalled. Then Bottrell introduced a project he thought might force a little focus onto the freewheeling, chaotic sessions. Crow had finished an album for A&M Records, but despite the $500,000 spent on it, nobody at the label was thrilled with the results. Hoping for a quick fix, A&M hired Gilbert to remix the album, which was, in the immutable illogic of the record industry, already scheduled for release. Crow's manager asked Bottrell to step in as well. On Crow's first Tuesday night with the club, Baerwald showed up with musical sidekick David Ricketts (from the 1986 David and David album), both of them high on LSD, with the first verse already written to a song, "Leaving Las Vegas." Baerwald picked up a guitar, Ricketts the bass, and the band fell together to pick up where it had left off. "Baerwald couldn't function," Bottrell said. "Sheryl started to get drunk. I was looking for that moment when the good take would happen." For most of that year, Bottrell and his Tuesday crew - now working all week long - scrupulously fashioned and reshaped Crow's album. Because everything was a collaboration, songwriting credits were equally shared. "Everybody was equal," Baerwald said, "except Sheryl. She wasn't one of us. We helped her make a record." Gilbert's name wound up on seven of the 11 songs; he sang and played keyboards, guitar, bass and drums. His relationship with Crow was kept separate and even a secret from the group. "I'd see long conversations in the parking lot," Baerwald said. "Kevin challenged her," MacLeod said. "He was trying to get her to be honest and sing from her heart." Unsure of herself, professionally in over her head, Crow went home with Gilbert after sessions and listened to him rant about the industry's failings. "She had Kevin filling her with doubts," Bottrell said. When he wasn't with Crow or the club, Gilbert struggled with his solo album, playing most of the instruments on his supple but powerful pop-rock tracks - polished productions that showed the gleam of countless studio hours. A proposed deal with a major label fell apart, so he made do with a tiny custom label. After nearly a year of working together, all for one and one for all, the Tuesday Night musicians were shocked to learn they didn't figure into Crow's plans. Bottrell got the news when he met her to hand over the finished master in a Sunset Strip coffee shop. Although there had been much talk of hitting the road together to promote the record - bassist Dan Schwartz even bought a new bass for the tour - "she essentially told me to get lost," Bottrell said. "I add Sheryl Crow to a long list of people in Hollywood who told me they were my friend until they got what they wanted from me," Schwartz said. LIFE FALLING APART As Crow's relationship with Gilbert deteriorated - apparently she turned her attentions to an executive at the record label, Baerwald said - an increasingly bitter Gilbert threw himself deeper into his own album. "I think I'm a tinge jealous over her upcoming release," he wrote in his journal. "It's probably going to be huge, so I have to prepare myself mentally for that. If she gets what she wants after behaving this way, she'll be absolutely intolerable." For Gilbert, the final straw came when Crow sang "Leaving Las Vegas" on the David Letterman show. Afterward, when Letterman asked her if the song was autobiographical, a flustered Crow blurted out, "Yes." "I've never been to Las Vegas," continued Crow, who nobody remembers having contributed greatly to the writing of the song. "I wrote it about Los Angeles. It's really metaphorical." The next day, she and Gilbert exchanged angry words over the phone. He wasn't the only one furious. Author John O'Brien, who wrote the novel that inspired both Baerwald's early song lyrics and the movie starring Nicolas Cage, was still grumbling about Crow's gaffe to his literary agent on the day he blew his brains out, a scant few weeks before the movie deal was complete. As Crow's album soared on the charts (her nod to Gilbert in the liner notes says, "I owe you big for two years of musical and emotional support. Thanks"), Gilbert's solo album, a masterful but underpromoted effort titled "Thud," disappeared almost immediately on release. At the same time, ironically, a tape he recorded for the Led Zeppelin tribute album, dropped from the disc at the last minute, exploded on Los Angeles radio, leaving his label ineptly scrambling to capitalize. Despite its new prominence, the Tuesday Night Music Club never could quite regroup. The members did play one guest appearance with Crow at an out-of-town club, but the record company made it clear they would not be included in the more prestigious Hollywood show. Gilbert threw himself into other projects: helping Baerwald produce a solo album by Susanna Hoffs of the Bangles, working with Bottrell on an album by Linda Perry of 4 Non Blonds (the Tuesday Night gang dubbed her "the anti-Sheryl"), writing and recording scores for TV shows under a pseudonym. He even produced a movie soundtrack song for which Crow sang vocals - a version of Steve Miller's "The Joker" - although they were never in the studio at the same time. In November 1994, Gilbert met playwright Cintra Wilson at a party in San Francisco; two months later she moved to Los Angeles to live with him. "He was massively depressed over the whole Sheryl debacle," Wilson said. "I was a basket case. We were perfect for each other." Despite the tension with Crow, most of the Tuesday Night Music Club attended the Grammy Awards in March 1995. To show irreverence, Wilson rented 19th-century funeral regalia for Gilbert and her to wear: a morning coat and top hat for him, ostrich plumes and a bustle for her. Crow sat in the row in front of them. "They were not on good terms," Wilson. "She was tensely gracious. It was a furtive, tense, real glitzy night." Crow picked up three awards, including Record of the Year for "All I Wanna Do," a Tuesday Night instrumental with lyrics borrowed from verses in a little-known volume by a poet in Vermont. A week later, Gilbert was still wearing his Grammy medallion around his neck like a badge of valor. From there, he set out to recapture the creative anarchy he felt was the authentic legacy of the club. He and MacLeod produced some startling recordings, far removed from anything either of them had ever done. They were scary, dense, pop-industrial recordings, with Gilbert whispering ominous, almost threatening processed vocals. "They gave me nightmares," Bottrell said. Gilbert envisioned a new band, Kaviar, clad in fetish rubber gear. He pulled other musicians into the plan. At the same time, Gilbert could toss off simple, beautiful, sentimental tunes. In Baerwald's last memory of Gilbert, the pianist was noodling around on the keyboard, plaintively singing Randy Newman's "Marie." Baerwald had briefly dozed off. "I woke up crying," he said. Bottrell, who played perhaps the largest role in Gilbert's career, doesn't think he ever really knew him. "There were tremendous areas of his life I was not privy to," he said. "There were motives I could never quite figure out." But Bottrell's wife, Elizabeth, remembers sensing a powerful mood of peace and reconciliation in a phone conversation with Gilbert the afternoon before he died. They talked about attending an industry dinner together; Gilbert kidded her about wearing rubber. They never spoke again. One afternoon this summer, several hundred of Gilbert's friends and associates gathered for a memorial service at the Bottrells' Glendale home. Wilson, dressed white, sat next to MacLeod as Crow walked up to say hello. "I barked at her," Wilson recalled. Wilson knew the titles of the album's songs well enough. "Run, baby, run," she yelped at Crow, who fled in tears. Although Crow is reluctant to discuss Gilbert, she has been openly vocal in interviews about the rift over the album with the Tuesday Night Music Club. "There were guys in the group who were feeling bitter about the record doing so well," she recently told Billboard magazine. "Maybe I should have called it something else." On Tuesday, she will release her follow-up album, called - not insignificantly, perhaps even defiantly - "Sheryl Crow." Clearly, this singer wants to prove that she's an act and a talent all her own - not the smoke-and-mirrors creation of a savvy, multitalented backup band. She did mention Gilbert to a Dutch journalist last month. "I wasn't surprised by his death," Crow told Edwin Ammerlaan of Orr Magazine. "Kevin was one of the most self-destructive people I've ever met. I don't want to go into this too much, but it wasn't a nice story." ------------------------------ End of sheryl-crew-digest V2 #322 *********************************