From: owner-seven-seas@smoe.org (seven-seas-moderated-digest) To: seven-seas-moderated-digest@smoe.org Subject: seven-seas-moderated-digest V2 #197 Reply-To: seven-seas@smoe.org Sender: owner-seven-seas@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-seven-seas@smoe.org Precedence: bulk seven-seas-moderated-digest Wednesday, June 11 2003 Volume 02 : Number 197 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:03:03 -0500 From: "Martha Smith" Subject: seven-seas-moderated Re: seven-seas The Art of Mac aka Mac Art(hur) > "side two" > or the latter half of the songs seem to be the best, though I love > "Playgrounds...." which is on "side one." The fact that no one song > really sticks out is proof that the album fits together well as a > whole, which is rare in these days of albums consisting of > shock-impact singles and then wet cardboard fillers. It seems to me his albums do work as integral pieces -- they are crafted. "Playgrounds" is my favorite, too. Since "Sliding" and "Arthur" are also in my top 3-4, I guess I am a side 1 advocate. - - Kristin, swimming against the tide :) ====================================== The Official Seven-Seas Web Page. www.bunnymenlist.com ====================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:14:28 -0400 From: Peter Charbonneau Subject: seven-seas-moderated Re: seven-seas The Art of Mac aka Mac Art(hur) I agree, Mac's lyrics have evolved over the years. I love the early bunnymen lyrics, because they were so different from anything else out there and they got your head working, but there's something to be said for a song like "burn for me" which is maybe a little more straightforward, but again open to interpretation... that's a beautiful tune At 11:19 AM 6/11/2003 -0500, Martha Smith wrote: > > His lyrics for WAYGTDWYL, Flowers and Slideling seem effortless > > maybe even easy to be written by Ian McCulloch, > > > > His lyrics have become more plain-spoken, but I suspect that may >not translate into "easy to be written". It seems to me his writing has >depth. For example, I think "Burn For Me" -- one of my favorite songs >-- can and probably should be interpreted several ways. Read it over >and contemplate. > >- Kristin :) > > > >====================================== >http://www.bunnymenlist.com > >====================================== ====================================== The Official Seven-Seas Web Page. www.bunnymenlist.com ====================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:19:49 -0400 From: Peter Charbonneau Subject: seven-seas-moderated Re: seven-seas The Art of Mac aka Mac Art(hur) well said chris.... I know I've always tailored favorite lyrics to my own situations, interpreting them on my own levels. That's what makes the songs so important to me. I just enjoy the connection made with music I love, lyrically, sonically, or just catching a certain vibe off of what the artist is trying to do. At 12:33 PM 6/11/2003 -0400, Chris Adams wrote: >I think Mac's a pretty intuitive writer. I know that he tends to write >his lyrics pretty quickly. ("Little Dwarf", anyone?) And I don't >think he gets too hung up on "meaning," particularly. I think it's >more about creating a vibe, to be honest. I mean, certainly there are >songs that are "about" things, but generally I think he writes what >comes to him and, after an edit or two, lets 'em go. Again, this isn't >saying they're meaningless, any more than any type of self-expression >is. (EG. Jackson Pollock painted intuitively, in the moment, and, >although you'd be hard-pressed to determine a pre-conceived "meaning" >for the painting, it still has an undeniable cause, purpose, and >effect.) I think the mark of a great writer--songwriter or >otherwise--is to be able to capture something complex and/or >personal--be it an idea, or an emotion, or whatever--and express it >simply, in human terms, with a fairly universal appeal. And Mac's a >master at that. > >That said, I think there are several obvious lyrical themes running >through "Slideling", especially on songs like "Seasons" and "Kansas." > >I think people tend to over-analyze lyrics a little bit, especially >with artists they really dig. I can see how the artist might feel >flattered, but at the same time, I'm certain that it's the listener's >natrual interpretation that's most important, on an individualized >basis. Let's face it, anyone who thinks young Mr. Mac actually had >specific, heavy-handed artistic/symbolic intentions behind >"c-c-c-cucumber" has clearly eaten a few too many moonbars. > >--Chris A. > > > > >"Martha Smith" >Sent by: owner-seven-seas@smoe.org >11-Jun-2003 12:19 PM >Please respond to seven-seas > > > To: > cc: > Subject: Re: seven-seas The Art of Mac aka Mac Art(hur) > > > > His lyrics for WAYGTDWYL, Flowers and Slideling seem effortless > > maybe >even > > easy to be written > > by Ian McCulloch, > > > > His lyrics have become more plain-spoken, but I suspect that may >not translate into "easy to be written". It seems to me his writing has >depth. For example, I think "Burn For Me" -- one of my favorite songs >-- can and probably should be interpreted several ways. Read it over >and contemplate. > >- Kristin :) > > > >====================================== >http://www.bunnymenlist.com > >====================================== > > > >====================================== >http://www.bunnymenlist.com > >====================================== ====================================== The Official Seven-Seas Web Page. www.bunnymenlist.com ====================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:43:25 -0500 From: "Martha Smith" Subject: seven-seas-moderated Re: seven-seas The Art of Mac aka Mac Art(hur) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Adams" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:33 AM Subject: Re: seven-seas The Art of Mac aka Mac Art(hur) > I think Mac's a pretty intuitive writer. I know that he tends to > write his lyrics pretty quickly. > Let's > face it, anyone who thinks young Mr. Mac actually had specific, > heavy-handed artistic/symbolic intentions behind "c-c-c-cucumber" has > clearly eaten a few too many moonbars. > I have never said he did. The fact of it is(and I am probably going against the tide again), I have never considered "c-c-c-cucumber" as one of his better efforts. :) I don't think he deals in "specific, heavy-handed artistic/symbolic intentions" -- though judging by the way he uses them, certain images and words do seem to have particular meanings for him. This gets into the very broad area of the role of the intuitive/subconscious in creative thought. The 18th Century saw creating works of art as primarily an intellectual, rational process. 19th Century romanticism emphasized the irrational/ subconscious as the source of creativity. The greatest critic of the age, John Ruskin, thought both processes play a role. He saw the artist as an individual of heightened perceptions who is able to convey these perceptions to others. This can be quite intuitive...generally is. - - K :) ====================================== The Official Seven-Seas Web Page. www.bunnymenlist.com ====================================== ------------------------------ End of seven-seas-moderated-digest V2 #197 ******************************************