From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V12 #85 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Sunday, October 14 2007 Volume 12 : Number 085 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [pt] Just saw a drag queen doing 'Cher' ... ["Jennifer Mitts" Subject: Re: [pt] Just saw a drag queen doing 'Cher' ... Was Tori's performance on The Late Late Show from April, Richard? I didn't notice it was a rereun. Or, if it wasn't a rerun, why do you call it the *April* performance? Thanks for the concert review, Karen. Like Richard said, it is nice to read one here on PT. I am rather disappointed with Tori's TV performances these days. If I were not a Tori fan already (from 1992, too), I don't know if I'd be all that attracted to her these days. Is the beauty of the careful placement of every note (vocal and instrumental) on her albums just somehow jarred away and lost during her live performances at this stage in life? Is the tour already wearing on her? I wouldn't fault her for it. It's got to be exhausting. I do miss the more intimate Tori, who could still rock us out with the appropriate song here or there but still seem to reach out to each of us on gentler songs in which she keeps a little more to the melody. But maybe loss of melody, loss of the personal... that just comes with the Tori concert experience in this day and age. Plus, maybe I'm also getting tired of the get-up, all the "personalities." I kind of liked it when the idea of each "girl" was just a metaphor. Now, like you said, Karen, it seems like one big drag show. I'm afraid Tori's going to be tired of the get-up, too, by the time I see her in Atlanta, in another huge venue where she doesn't see any familiar faces in the audience anymore because it's too freakin' big. No more catching her eye and getting that knowing wink from her. Can anyone else relate to what I'm saying? Or will I be proverbially slapped for daring to dis a Tori concert experience, especially before I've experienced it? (Since so many people are uploading songs from concerts via their cell phones, I feel I have seen her in concert already this tour, and I'm just not THAT impressed. And who told Tori she could dance? haha I LOVE TORI. Don't get me wrong. But the girl can't dance. *sigh*) Jen On 10/12/07, Richard Handal wrote: > > > Thanks a bunch for putting that together, Karen. It's been odd to see so > few concert reports here since the tour began. Maybe more will show up > during this leg. > > As of several tours back, Crucify had morphed into a 10-minute > extravaganza. Sounds as if it still is. Overall, I can't even begin to > imagine attending one of these concerts after not having gone to any > since 1992! As little as I can conceive of getting into Tori with an > album later than LE, thinking of skipping concerts for all those years > after attending one or more in 1992 is enough to make me dizzy! > > I'm interested in the times you refer to when you say she came out > earlier than expected. Over the past several tours, let's say the posted > curtain was 8pm: The opener would come out and do around 35 minutes, and > then she would hit the stage near 9:15, maybe ten minutes either way. > Did she come out earlier than one hour after curtain as printed on the > ticket? I had the sense that these shows were of the 2:15 variety rather > than the 1:45 variety, so I'd been wondering about this issue. I must > admit, I haven't read many comments on Undented after the first few > concerts, but neither do I recall any specific times mentioned. If she's > doing 2:15 and ending by 11pm, she'll be taking a lot of people by > surprise, absolutely. > > Much thanks again, Karen! > > And I thought tonight's *April* performance on The Late Late Show was > like peering into an alternate universe! > > Be seeing you, > > Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 20:26:14 -0500 (CDT) From: handal@r2d2.reverse.net (Richard Handal) Subject: Re: [pt] Just saw a drag queen doing 'Cher' ... Hi, Jen, > Was Tori's performance on The Late Late Show from April, Richard? Yes. http://undented.com/news/1156/late-late-show-appearance-october-11-2007 News: Late Late Show Appearance (October 11, 2007) Posted by woj on Friday, October 12, 2007 | TV/Radio/Web, Video Tori performed "Bouncing Off Clouds" on The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson on October 11, 2007. The song was actually taped back on April 26th when she also performed "Big Wheel" for an earlier appearance on the program. That early date explains the trio configuration of just Tori, Jon Evans and Matt Chamberlain (in contrast to the full band with Dan Phelps on guitar on The Tonight Show on October 1st). There was no interview segment -- just the performance which, of course, can be found on YouTube: [ . . . ] > I am rather disappointed with Tori's TV performances these days. I thought Leno last week was great--also Bouncing Off Clouds. The band had been playing it for months on tour, and the April one we got Thursday was a paint-by-numbers jobbie from before they'd had the time to get used to playing it. The difference is there to be heard, even in the opening notes. As a musician, I can easily tell when a band is just trying to keep together and play the song, and when they're used to playing the song and can really swing with it and put feeling into it. I don't think one needs to *be* a musician to be able to sense this, either; especially on TV, with being able to see how much they look at one another for visual cues when they're barely hanging together. God bless YouTube. Go and compare. > If I were not a Tori fan already (from 1992, too), I don't know if I'd > be all that attracted to her these days. If one wants only the things that one was getting from a prior era of a musician, being satisfied with their new stuff seems unlikely. If one is open to whatever comes so long as it's great, one can still hate the new stuff anyway, but expecting in the new music the things that were in the earlier incarnation is the sure road to disappointment. I saw people complaining to high heaven about the 2005 concerts, and I thought the two I attended were great--the second of them was spectacular. http://thedent.com/more.php?id=2863_0_1_0_M I think if people were expecting performances that were similar in certain specific ways to ones they knew from other tours, and that was what they *required* to be pleased, they were not gonna like the 2005 concerts. I can give a lot of detail on this, but will refrain for now. I'm sure Tori sees plenty of familiar faces at the concerts, Jen. I'm not sure why you think she wouldn't. She isn't on a mountaintop. [????] I attended a six-week Tolkien seminar at the Smithsonian in 2001. (Each of us has our own crosses to bear.) The teacher was a Tolkien scholar and English prof from the U. of Md. At one class, someone asked her why someone "should" read Tolkien. She said the only reason to read Tolkien is if one likes reading Tolkien and gets pleasure from it. I think it makes sense to apply that idea to all art. Don't like it? Don't go. Imaginary problem solved. Pining for the past, again, is the sure road to disappointment. Nothing and no one can change that equation. Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:34:44 -0400 From: "Jennifer Mitts" Subject: Re: [pt] Just saw a drag queen doing 'Cher' ... I'm still liking her albums. In fact, I put the beekeeper album at the top of all of her albums. I guess it's just her performances these days. She seems to be so... distant? On 10/12/07, Richard Handal wrote: > If one wants only the things that one was getting from a prior era of a > musician, being satisfied with their new stuff seems unlikely. If one is > open to whatever comes so long as it's great, one can still hate the new > stuff anyway, but expecting in the new music the things that were in the > earlier incarnation is the sure road to disappointment. I saw people > complaining to high heaven about the 2005 concerts, and I thought the > two I attended were great--the second of them was spectacular. > > http://thedent.com/more.php?id=2863_0_1_0_M ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 00:06:04 -0400 From: "Karen Hester" Subject: [pt] Ooh, second night MSG great! Much darker tonight, and that's not simply a case of me being able to look past the costumes and pretty lights! And to think it began with Santa in a party dress - I thought we were in for something light and flighty (apologies to Santa). It did start fun with 'Body and soul' and 'My posse can do,' but these were followed by the fierceness of 'Sugar' and sadness of 'Dragon' (which was a bit plodding with the band, methinks, though a delight to hear). After Tori's post-dress-up opening number, the obligatory 'Big wheel' (which is so fun live), she ignored the new album for an hour. She played long gorgeous introductions to many of the songs, and all were worth their extended lead-ins - a beautiful 'Doughnut song', wonderful 'Spark', rocking 'Space dog', stunning 'Spring haze' (hey, I usually don't have any time for that song, but wow). T & Bo was 'Winter', 'Carbon' (oooooh, gorgeous) and 'Baker Baker'. Perhaps my favorite piece of all was the improv after 'Doughnut song' (musically it had more to do with 'Doughnut' than the following 'Spring haze' for me). My brain is mush, but I remember a soaring chorus about Jesus being love, and then lists of who he's friends with (woman, nigger (her word :), homosexual/ men who love men/women who love women - she varied it a bit), and how we all have burning bushes, with the usual Tori hand motions in case one was mistakenly thinking of botanical bushes. There was another improv, about all the cute people in the audience and how nice it must be to be a guy in new york, though she doesn't want to be a guy because she's happy with her plaything (and another Tori hand motion - how often does she refer to her genitals in each show! One could chart a graph). No cutesy anecdote tonight. Ooh I can see why people take off and follow her, such a multitude of songs and personalities and talents in one person. K. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 02:29:40 -0500 (CDT) From: handal@r2d2.reverse.net (Richard Handal) Subject: Re: [pt] Ooh, second night MSG great! Replying to Karen: > . . . stunning 'Spring haze' (hey, I usually don't have any time for > that song, but wow). That became a major fave on the '99 tour. Possibly the song I craved most, and from which I got the most reliable full body chills. I don't know what they're doing with it now, but back then, I came to expect great, wide-smiling joy with bouncing energy, and spine-tingling, soaring vocals near the end. I'm getting chills just thinking about it. The haze lifts in that song, and things become clear. "The music itself" is largely responsible for that: it's a semiotic effect. Aspirational. Beautiful. > Ooh I can see why people take off and follow her, such a multitude of > songs and personalities and talents in one person. Each concert can come from a completely different section of the color wheel than the night before. Knowing that, the sense of anticipation before she walks onstage can be enormous. A major tour regular had just come on in Atlanta for a few concerts in 2001, and she was sitting next to me. The recorded music had been playing from the P.A. for nearly half an hour after the opening act, so the sword was almost ready to fall. I turned to my friend and said, "Any minute now she's gonna walk out, she's gonna sit down, and she's gonna start playing the piano." My friend said: "I know EXACTLY what you mean!" That can be addictive, yeah. Scary. Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V12 #85 *************************************