From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V12 #37 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Saturday, May 19 2007 Volume 12 : Number 037 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [pt] a little clarification & big wheel video competition ["Pete Lamb] [pt] thoughts on the guitar & tori [e m ] Re: [pt] a little clarification [handal@r2d2.reverse.net (Richard Handal)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 01:07:04 +0100 From: "Pete Lambert" Subject: RE: [pt] a little clarification & big wheel video competition Cyndi - relax! I'm certain that there is not an angry mob of caton-ites rampaging in your direction at this moment. i just can't picture richard brandishing a pitchfork for one thing (unless understandably provoked by an unacceptably poor sound system, perhaps...). This list has had some of the most civilised and thought provoking differences of opinion of any I've ever been on, and long may that continue. Interesting to see on undented.com that a competition has now been launched for fans to create their own videos for Big Wheel, taking it a step further than the one for Taxi Ride (I still cant find the winner on youtube) by having footage of Tori performing against a green screen available to download for inclusion, making it potentially seem totally professional. That part of it is certainly a first as far as I know in the 'fan produced video' field. However, I dont know of any examples of fan produced videos actually making it in to circulation as a record company's approved 'real' promo for a song by any artist - do any of you? Seems odd that they've picked a track that already has a promo too. Mind you, that promo (with the animated photos) has only been seen online (by me) so could be akin to the promo for ASF that came on the Scarlet's Walk bonus DVD, so we could yet see a second round of promotion for Big Wheel I suppose. Why oh why oh why dont the record labels of artists with 'buy it in every format' fan bases make the most of the fact by releasing multiple formats of singles? The solitary format of ASF that was issued in the UK got to #41 in the chart with minimal promotion, I'm sure that if they'd issued the DVD single and a second disk with additional b-sides (FFS "Not David Bowie" was gathering dust at this point, to link in with the other thread) the album would have got a useful boost from a Top 30 single getting a little more airplay... [it's at around this point of my rants like this in the pub that my non-EWF friends' eyes start glazing over, by the way, or they chip in with a question like, "so, did you say she actually lives in england now?"] Pete x # she can flip her hair / i can flip you off - -----Original Message----- From: owner-precious-things@smoe.org [mailto:owner-precious-things@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Cyndi S Crawford Sent: 16 May 2007 16:21 To: precious-things@smoe.org Subject: [pt] a little clarification regarding my comments about Caton's playing and his ego (etc).. lemme just say this much: just because I think he's an egotistical player doesn't necessarily mean that I think he must have been a jerk--it IS possible to be a very nice person, very gracious and friendly to the fans and still be the kind of person who walks onstage and plays like they're the only person that belongs there. (I also COULD be wrong in my assumptions, etc, and if I am, go ahead and tell me why, because I'm not going to dig my feet in and refuse to change my opinion if I'm shown the facts) I'm sure it sounds contradictory, given how most people with an ego act, but it isn't always the case, so I can easily believe that Caton was a very friendly-to-the-fans kind of guy, regardless of how he played while onstage. oh, and Richard: whichever show it was that they opened with Black Dove is the one I'm talking about. :) - -- Cyndi S. Crawford No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/805 - Release Date: 15/05/2007 10:47 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/805 - Release Date: 15/05/2007 10:47 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 17:58:14 -0700 (PDT) From: e m Subject: [pt] thoughts on the guitar & tori interesting thoughts here. i respect all opinions. you like what you like. i personally dont have a grand "i loved" or "hated" caton. there are things he did both live in the studio that added to tori and was quite artistic. and then there were moments like his whining during her amazing solo hey jupiters on the harmonium where i just wanted him to be quiet so i could totally soak in tori. as for mr. aladdin, 9 times out of 10 i dislike his work and find it totally sophomoric sounding. some of his acoustic work is nice, but the electric stuff is so corny. i've said many times that i absolutely loved belew's work on slg. now watch it turn out that he's secretly done all the following albums (but i doubt it). he really added the right touches to that album and i liked reading his thoughts on working with her. my favorite guitar moment on all tori albums, New Age, during the "over the bridge we go" he does so eloquently what caton tried to do so many times, but didn't put the same emotion to it. those notes make me want to tear up. but what is the point to all this. tori is going to work with who she likes to work with no matter what they sound like b/c she just simply likes working with people she likes and trusts more than anything. i mean who else would put their chef as backing vocals! my two drachmas - --------------------------------- Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 04:31:53 -0400 (EDT) From: handal@r2d2.reverse.net (Richard Handal) Subject: Re: [pt] a little clarification Replying more to Cyndi: > regarding my comments about Caton's playing and his ego (etc).. lemme > just say this much: just because I think he's an egotistical player > doesn't necessarily mean that I think he must have been a jerk . . . I absolutely agree with the idea of that. I never saw it from him onstage either, though. Onstage, Caton always seemed to me to be listening to the other players, and involved with his instrument and the music. I think for a musician to be great, it's important that they have something in them that may seem contradictory, which is that they need to be humble and realize that they don't *create* the music, it comes *through* them, and they are channeling it, and I think a musician at the same time needs to trust his or own abilities on their instrument, and to have a lot of confidence that they can think of what to play and know they can pull it off. So a lot of technical self-confidence combined with an understanding that one must surrender and let the music come through one both are key. I've seen people complain about the supposed egos of musicians before, when they seemed to be mistaking that deep self-confidence in ability for personal ego. They missed the point of what they were seeing. > (I also COULD be wrong in my assumptions, etc, and if I am, go ahead > and tell me why, because I'm not going to dig my feet in and refuse to > change my opinion if I'm shown the facts) I guess if you're hearing something I don't hear in the concert recordings, the only thing that might convince you to reconsider would be to find some more video concert recordings and watch them for signs of how Caton comported himself onstage during them. I'm afraid I feel that the Concert for RAINN was an unusual enough of a situation for a boatload of reasons that it's the last concert I would suggest one look to as an example of how things were generally. I think if one is predisposed to believe one thing or another about somebody, that even seeing footage of them might not overcome that in one's mind. The best thing I can offer is that I've attended a hell of a lot of concerts, not only Tori, I'm a musician and trained as a recording engineer, and I've studied all of this a great deal for a long time, and the dynamic of Caton coming across onstage as if he were full of himself is the exact opposite of how I always perceived him to be. That's about all I got right there. Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V12 #37 *************************************