From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V12 #35 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Wednesday, May 16 2007 Volume 12 : Number 035 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [pt] so, american doll posse, then ["Pete Lambert" ] Re: [pt] Tori Meets The PS22 Chorus, and some thoughts on ADP, etc. [hand] Re: [pt] fuzz all tipped to play [handal@r2d2.reverse.net (Richard Handal] Re: [pt] Tori Meets The PS22 Chorus, and some thoughts on ADP, etc. ["Cy] Re: [pt] so, american doll posse, then ["Cyndi S Crawford" Subject: [pt] so, american doll posse, then [I'm having addressbook problems, or it's having me problems, so sorry if this post has gone out 3 times...] Right, I've tried and I've tried and I've tried to come up with something more thought provoking than "OM-friggin-G!" to say about this record (and I risk falling victim to my own plans for an 'exclamation mark tax' to discourage their over use in online forums) The pace! The breadth! The charm! The power! The savvy! The light-and-dark-at-the-same-time-ish-ness! But enough about My Posse Can Do (*finally* she's written my perfect funeral/detonation song). Honestly I just dont know where to start with the rest. Just... this record seems to be doing things to me that I didn't think records could do me now. Just... just... well, I need to buy unnecessarily new stationery items so that I can write these song lyrics on them. While I scramble around for a thesaurus that's man enough to help me to put together some sort of coherent comments, I'll let out an ember of cynicism about 'the suits' in the mean time by directing you all to the shining zenith of Columbia's UK marketing blitz: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140117106150 OK one song comment I cant hold back even at this hour - a pun obsessed nod from me to the tactfulness of the first track being called "Yo, George", which is a riposte of course to a President's "Yo, Blair" comment, but since he said "Yo, Blair", not "Yo, Tony", the first track should, were it not for the possibility of a little misinterpretation, *really* be called "Yo, Bush". But that would be another song :o) Pete x - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/804 - Release Date: 14/05/2007 16:46 - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/804 - Release Date: 14/05/2007 16:46 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 01:34:42 +0100 From: "Pete Lambert" Subject: [pt] fuzz all tipped to play Tony then Richard said: >> A guitar would be a very welcome addition in my opinion. > I agree, on a theoretical basis, but what about the specifics? I agree too and am fascinated about what they're going to do. Is 'hire a new guitarist' off the agenda? I expect so. Or there's the guy from... [respected prog rock band who played on SLG, name escapes me sorry] ....but I suppose there's bound to be nervousness around bringing in a fourth member to a unit that's so comfortable with itself. Jon's 'one man band' stint on the US TV shows was a fun work-around, but doesnt seem tenable for a whole show. Listening to the rockier ADP songs I find myself imagining them without the bass guitar, with that extra deep octave on the piano pressed in to service, to let Jon play lead or rhythm guitar throughout say, Teenage Hustling or Bring Your Dog. I can imagine that working, but Tori loves her bass guitar so much, we'll have to wait and see. Pete x - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/804 - Release Date: 14/05/2007 16:46 - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/804 - Release Date: 14/05/2007 16:46 - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/804 - Release Date: 14/05/2007 16:46 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 04:51:51 -0400 (EDT) From: handal@r2d2.reverse.net (Richard Handal) Subject: Re: [pt] Tori Meets The PS22 Chorus, and some thoughts on ADP, etc. Responding here to Cyndi: > but in all seriousness, what I liked just as much as seeing her react > to their singing was their reactions on the ride back. So did I. It was hard to tell how much they were into it when seeing them in the plaza. > while I'm on the subject of the new album, I might as well throw my > two cents on this part too: I don't see the fuss about the guitar > playing, personally. at all. I never much cared for Caton, so that > could be why. I always thought he was a showboating player--ya know.. That reaction surprises me. I attended 114 concerts with him playing (1996, 1998, and 1999), and he always seemed deferential to Tori, looking over to her to get cues for how and what he should be doing. He always seemed responsive to her. And if anything, Matt and Jon could be accurately accused of *over*playing, and he ended up being deferential to them as much as he was toward what Tori was playing. He was often nearly marginalized at the expense of Matt and Jon being elevated. Tori was once quoted as saying people would compliment her a lot on the strings, and she would laugh and explain that it was Caton using a guitar. He played guitar a great deal with the EBow, which is a device to place over a string and it applies a magnetic field to vibrate the string, making it sound like it was a bowed string. So if anyone can point to a specific song or live version of a song in which they feel Caton was showboating, I'd be interested in that. That perception is confusing to me, and I'd like to be able to understand it. My experience of his playing both on record and in concert was always the exact opposite of him exhibiting ego. He always subsumed himself to the music, which is one reason I like his playing as much as I do. > 'course, this is all just my personal opinion, so don't think I'm > sitting here trying to pick a fight with anyone. Having a conversation has nothing to do with picking a fight. I'm glad that such a thing might still be possible once in a while! I've been wondering why there's been so little traffic here right after an album came out. Weird. Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 10:04:21 -0400 (EDT) From: handal@r2d2.reverse.net (Richard Handal) Subject: Re: [pt] fuzz all tipped to play Responding here to Pete: > I agree too and am fascinated about what they're going to do. Is 'hire > a new guitarist' off the agenda? I think they would be using someone in the studio if they had found someone to their/her liking. And if they were still up in the air about how to do the tour as recently as she indicated in an interview a couple weeks ago, they'd have a hard time finding anyone now who isn't already booked to do other things. I have the impression that she would have wanted to have a band on at least one of the 2005 tours, but Matt was already committed otherwise. I also doubt they'd want to hire someone to tour on short notice who hadn't been tested in the studio. The lack of a regular guitarist after Caton became gone shows that she was happy with him over the long haul. If anyone can imagine even the first three albums without Caton . . . well, *I* certainly can't. He helped define her sound from the start. > Jon's 'one man band' stint on the US TV shows was a fun work-around, > but doesnt seem tenable for a whole show. Yeah, it was like driving on a spare tire. It isn't designed to go the distance. Amusing, though. Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 15:06:35 GMT From: "Cyndi S Crawford" Subject: Re: [pt] Tori Meets The PS22 Chorus, and some thoughts on ADP, etc. so sayeth Richard: "...if anyone can point to a specific song or live version of a song in which they feel Caton was showboating, I'd be interested in that." well for me, Black Dove. the Toronto 1998 performance, specifically, is where I first began to notice it. I felt like his guitar playing was a bit much after Tori started singing. before that, though, it was great. perfect, even. but when she started in on "black dove, black dove.." nuh uh. I have seen him play with Tori when it was just him and her (the NY concert for RAINN comes to mind) and I liked it just fine, but when he plugged in, it felt, to me, like he went "whee! *cranks amp to 11 and goes crazy*" now, looking back, maybe "showboating" isn't the right word to use, and maybe it ISN'T ego, but I certainly didn't like his plugged-in live playing with Tori because, basically, I agree with what she, Jon, and Matt (et al) have said about "letting the subtle sounds come through". Caton didn't BEGIN to let that happen enough in my opinion. like I said, though, I did like his studio playing quite a bit more than his live, with-the-band playing. that's where it really went sour to me. and mind you, I generally like guitars in concert--acoustic as well as electric. - -- Cyndi S. Crawford ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 15:11:21 GMT From: "Cyndi S Crawford" Subject: Re: [pt] so, american doll posse, then sayeth Pete: "Right, I've tried and I've tried and I've tried to come up with something more thought provoking than "OM-friggin-G!" to say about this record (and I risk falling victim to my own plans for an 'exclamation mark tax' to discourage their over use in online forums)" dude, you TOO? damn. I'm telling you, I'm still so blown away by this album that I'm making outrageous statements on my LiveJournal such as, "American Doll Posse is quite possibly one of the greatest albums EVER. from track 1 to track 23. I say Tori Amos deserves to win eight--no, nine! or TEN! or however many possible--grammy awards! and I say it should be the greatest selling album ever. if I had my way, it would blow Thriller out of the water into the stratosphere, yo! this album deserves to break records!" - -- Cyndi S. Crawford ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 16:35:11 -0400 (EDT) From: handal@r2d2.reverse.net (Richard Handal) Subject: Re: [pt] Tori Meets The PS22 Chorus, and some thoughts on ADP, Responding again to Cyndi: > well for me, Black Dove. the Toronto 1998 performance, specifically, > is where I first began to notice it. Okay. I'll dig it out and play it when I have a chance. First you need to tell me which show. The one on the 28th of April (the seventh concert the band ever played together, and after only a week of rehearsals, as Mark told me a few days earlier in D.C.) when she was still being shot up with steroids because her vocal cords were gone to hell from all the pollen, or the one in the Molson Amphitheatre on the 25th of July? If it was the Toronto club show in April, my review of the prior show in Philly may be of interest. http://www.smoe.org/lists/precious-things/1998/v03.n155 Thanks, Cyndi. Good deal. Proof a conversation can still happen. I'd started to wonder. Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 15:22:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Amanda Bradley Subject: Re: [pt] Tori Meets The PS22 Chorus, and some thoughts on ADP, etc. Cyndi S Crawford wrote: "I never much cared for Caton, so that could be why. I always thought he was a showboating player--ya know.. (very) good at it, but he always came off to me as the type of guy who thought that making good music wasn't as important as showing off." I am a fan of Caton's. I miss his presence in the new songs deeply. I can't imagine Space Dog, Cornflake Girl, Father Lucifer, and my favorite of his, Doughnut Song with the HA HA guitar. I never saw Caton live with Tori, but from all of the boots I've heard and seen, he allowed the piano to take stage and always kept the right amount of space without losing any intensity. I do agree that he at times seemed to have an arrogance about him, but I think that's because he knows his talent and doesn't hide it. Tori can come across as arrogant in a lot of her interviews. "and I don't think the guitar on the new album sounds like Caton's playing at all." I see the resemblance very clearly. But, the new guitar isn't as natural and poetic as Caton's. It's sorta stiff. As far as the album, my favorites are Smokey Joe- finally Pele style vocal layers. the sadness and dangerous tone are so very comforting. i'm baffled how i existed without this song. Digital Ghost- i worship the line "your heart only beats in 1's and 0's". They way she sings it breaks my heart every time. i love the piano and the breathing-machine-like sound in the background. Devils And Gods- too short. WAY too short. i want more. Body And Soul- that pounding. that piano. that rhythm. what a booty shaker. she'll rock the house with this one. Father's Son- i dismissed her at first, but after seeing Tori's ps22 choir performance i was sold. her voice was so stunning and it woke me up. Code Red- her deep piano and lower voice have me in their clutch. reminds of Raining Blood. Dragon- simply for the piano playing and the chorus. gorgeous. Conversate away.. Peace Out, Amanda "You and me will all go down in History. With a sad statue of Liberty and a Generation that didn't agree." - --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V12 #35 *************************************