From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V10 #178 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Saturday, September 24 2005 Volume 10 : Number 178 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: The Music and the Message [handal@r2d2.reverse.net (Richard Handal)] Re: The Music and the Message [Amanda Bradley ] Re: Re: The Music and the Message [songchicky ] the latest from toriamos.com [wojizzle forizzle ] the new bootlegs ["Tom xxxxx" ] Re: the new bootlegs [Paintedpage@aol.com] Re: The Music and the Message [Brian K Tanaka ] Re: the new bootlegs [Amanda Bradley ] Re: The Music and the Message [Brian K Tanaka ] Re: the new bootlegs [Brian K Tanaka ] Re: The Music and the Message [Kelley ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:50:40 -0400 (EDT) From: handal@r2d2.reverse.net (Richard Handal) Subject: Re: The Music and the Message Quoth Brian: > A lot of talented artists with much to contribute to the human > experience have gotten royally screwed to varying degrees by labels > because, though they have a loyal fanbase and consistently sell X > albums (where X is some largish number), X is less than G (where G is > is whatever number the label sets as their greed-inspired lower > limit). It's a consequence of treating music solely as a commodity. But this never made sense to me. When so many artists *don't* make money for a label, it makes sense to me that an artist reliably making *any* money for a label would be considered a positive. Indeed, I know this sort of thinking as suggested by Amanda was put to Epic when they were first thinking about signing Tori, because they sought the advice of a friend of mine in Sony and she told them Tori had over a hundred thousand intense fans who would buy anything she did. So everyone in the business isn't dogmatic about this well-expressed X versus G mindset. Atlantic acted like idiots not to put more value in her than they did. After the relative sales disappointment of Scarlet and with Polly being gone, Tori isn't about to get the A-list treatment again from Epic anytime soon, though. And her sales don't cause her to deserve it. She does deserve basic human respect, but I ain't counting on such as that in *this* industry. Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:26:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Amanda Bradley Subject: Re: The Music and the Message I know, it's sad that the music companies are so vicious. I know this is slightly off topic, but The Mars Volta has their record company in the bag. They have almost complete control. For example, the band delivers their finished record to the suits for the first time only when it is completed. This band has complete creative control. The only thing they couldn't negotiate is control of their masters. Which is a lot to give up, but when considering how much this band did accomplish is amazing and awe inspiring. All I'm saying is that Tori has a better chance of surviving on a small amount of promotion largely due to the fact that she has such a devoted fanbase. Of course, her immeasurable talents are the main reason for her longevity. I mean compared to other acts which I won't mention so that I don't step on anyone's toes ("Rubbish, they're my favorite band", and so on). I mean, what is she writes "Check mate motherfuckers"? - --- Brian K Tanaka wrote: > Right. A lot of talented artists with much to > contribute to the human > experience have gotten royally screwed to varying > degrees by labels > because, though they have a loyal fanbase and > consistently sell X > albums (where X is some largish number), X is less > than G (where G is > is whatever number the label sets as their > greed-inspired lower limit). > It's a consequence of treating music soley as a > commodity. > > - Brian > Peace Out, Amanda "You and me will all go down in History. With a sad statue of Liberty and a Generation that didn't agree." Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 01:59:45 -0400 (EDT) From: songchicky Subject: Re: Re: The Music and the Message agreed. tori's albums certainly don't sell at the level that sony would consider top-flight. i mean, look at how long they've kept fiona's album in limbo. three bloody years! and they're only releasing it now because of the fan backlash. it doesn't matter if an album going gold is assured. if their goal is double-platinum, gold is a complete failure in their eyes. t.t. http://tanishataitt.ca Debut album Overflow available now. __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:05:55 -0400 From: wojizzle forizzle Subject: the latest from toriamos.com - ----- Forwarded message from Tori Amos ----- Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:03:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Tori Amos To: woj@smoe.org Subject: TORI AMOS Exclusive Live Track & Bootleg News! HELLO, woj! VOTE FOR TORI AT YAHOO! "DIG IT OR DIS IT"! Tori is up for Yahoo!'s weekly "Dig It or Dis It" feature! Click here to vote for her and help her win: http://music.yahoo.com/promotions/digitdisit/default.asp EXCLUSIVE LIVE DOWNLOAD! Tori recorded a live version of "Operator" for Yahoo! Visit Yahoo! Music Engine to download it now: http://yme.music.yahoo.com/ymeNav/ymu/song/23295444 MORE TORI BOOTLEGS! Stay tuned for your chance to pre-order two MORE Tori Amos double CD bootlegs for Manchester Apollo, Manchester, UK 6/5/05 and Paramount Theatre, Denver, CO 4/19/05 coming soon to http://ToriBootlegs.com! MEANWHILE... These bootlegs will be available for download this coming Tuesday, September 27. Stay tuned for direct links to get these from your favorite digital music store! Auditorium Theatre Chicago, IL and Royce Hall Auditorium Los Angeles, CA If you haven't already, get both Tori Amos double-CD Bootlegs for $25 online now at http://ToriBootlegs.com! GET ALL THE REST ON TORI AT: http://ToriAmos.com - ----- End forwarded message ----- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:13:35 +0000 From: "Tom xxxxx" Subject: the new bootlegs Hey, I hate to be a whiner, but I have to say, I'm a little disappointed with the bootlegs that are being released. There is too much overlap of the songs. Also, if you read the reviews for both of the forthcoming shows, Manchester and Denver, Tori's voice was apparently not in top form. I'm excited to hear a solo version of Suede and her cover of Suzanne must be unearthly, but overall, I was hoping for more variety. Since we were told she was only releasing six bootlegs, I was hopeful that she would choose her best performances with the most wide-ranging sets. Will we get Marys of the Sea, Martha's Foolish Ginger, or the phenomenal version of Blood Roses that emerged on this tour? What about the terrific solo Taxi Ride and her rare perfomances of Muhammad My Friend? I'd love for her to release the show she did with the chorus. Am I being greedy? Probably. Maybe I just set my hopes too high. Sigh. What's the general consensus? Tom M. "Can you Mr. Bush light the sage" - --- Tori Amos, "Indian Summer" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:33:22 EDT From: Paintedpage@aol.com Subject: Re: the new bootlegs In a message dated 9/23/05 9:06:39 AM, getula@hotmail.com writes: << What's the general consensus? >> I do notice a fair amount of overlap, both in the CDs I already have and in the 2 that are coming out. However, Liquid Diamonds, Your Cloud, and Icicle are 3 of my favorite songs of hers, so I'm feeling happy about that. I'm also looking forward to Suzanne as you pointed out. I hope her voice sounds good - all those mentions of a sore throat aren't too promising. I agree with you that Blood Roses and Marys of the Sea would have been fantastic. Mary Katherine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:13:06 -0700 From: Brian K Tanaka Subject: Re: The Music and the Message On Thu, Sep 22, 2005 at 05:50:40PM -0400, Richard Handal boldly wrote: > > Quoth Brian: > > > A lot of talented artists with much to contribute to the human > > experience have gotten royally screwed to varying degrees by labels > > because, though they have a loyal fanbase and consistently sell X > > albums (where X is some largish number), X is less than G (where G is > > is whatever number the label sets as their greed-inspired lower > > limit). It's a consequence of treating music solely as a commodity. > > But this never made sense to me. When so many artists *don't* make money > for a label, it makes sense to me that an artist reliably making *any* > money for a label would be considered a positive. .. You would think so, but it seems that making *some* money isn't the same as making *enough* money in the eyes of the music industry. I'm not an expert, but that's the conclusion I've drawn. IMHO, that might be okay if you're industry sells soup, but when your industry sells music, it's just wrong. - - Brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:42:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Amanda Bradley Subject: Re: the new bootlegs First of all, I don't think you are being a whiner Tom. You have a very valid point. I think everyone is with you on wanting more variety. I too was hoping, wishing, begging for that concert with the choir to make the cut, or the concert with Damien Rice. I also want the solo Taxi Ride, beautiful I might add, and Suede solo?? *Sigh* Breathtaking I bet. I would feel so blessed though, if the Austin show would make the cut. The setlist was powerful, but the covers...my god the covers... Peace Out, Amanda "You and me will all go down in History. With a sad statue of Liberty and a Generation that didn't agree." __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:32:55 -0700 From: Brian K Tanaka Subject: Re: The Music and the Message On Fri, Sep 23, 2005 at 04:19:26PM -0400, Kelley boldly wrote: > > it's the same in the publishing industry. in order for a publishing Yeah... I was going to mention that too. Death of the mid-list and all that. Sucks. - - Brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:47:18 -0700 From: Brian K Tanaka Subject: Re: the new bootlegs On Fri, Sep 23, 2005 at 01:13:35PM +0000, Tom xxxxx boldly wrote: > > I hate to be a whiner, but I have to say, I'm a little disappointed with > the bootlegs that are being released. There is too much overlap of the > songs. .. (Puts on his stats-nerd propellor beanie) Total number of shows attended: 4 Total number of songs performed: 72 Total number of songs, each individual song counted only once: 49 Total number of songs played only one time: 34 Average number of songs per show: 18 Ratio of individual songs to average number of songs per show: 49 / 18 Note: Multiple shows with no variation in the setlist would yield a ratio approaching 1 (e.g. 23 / 23). The higher the first value in this ratio, the greater the amount of variety in the setlists.) List of all songs played, preceded by number of times played: (Songs only played once also indicate at which show the song was played.) 1: All Through the Night - LA 1: Apollo's Frock - Chi 1: Beauty Queen - Manch 1: Cars and Guitars - Chi 1: Circle Game - Chi 1: Don't Look Back in Anger - Manch 1: Doughnut Song - LA 1: Honey - Chi 1: Horses - Manch 1: Icicle - Den 1: I Ran - Den 1: Liquid Diamonds - Manch 1: Livin' On a Prayer - LA 1: Marianne - Chi 1: Mother - Chi 1: Mother Revolution - Chi 1: My Favorite Things - Manch 1: Never Seen Blue - Manch 1: Not the Red Baron - Manch 1: Operator - Chi 1: Power of Orange Knickers - Den 1: Putting the Damage On - Den 1: Ruby Through the Looking Glass - LA 1: Silent All These Years - LA 1: Spring Haze - Manch 1: Strange - Manch 1: Suede - Manch 1: Suzanne - Den 1: Take to the Sky - LA 1: Tear In Your Hand - LA 1: Toast - LA 1: Twinkle - LA 1: Winter - Manch 1: Your Cloud - Den 2: Barons of Suburbia 2: Carbon 2: Father Lucifer 2: Jamaica Inn 2: Leather 2: Little Amsterdam 2: Ribbons Undone 2: Space Dog 2: Yes, Anastasia 3: Cloud on My Tongue 3: Cool On Your Island 3: Parasol 3: Sweet the Sting 4: Beekeeper 4: Original Sinsuality - - Brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:19:26 -0400 From: Kelley Subject: Re: The Music and the Message Brian K Tanaka wrote: >> But this never made sense to me. When so many artists *don't* make money >> >>for a label, it makes sense to me that an artist reliably making *any* >>money for a label would be considered a positive. >> >> >.. > >You would think so, but it seems that making *some* money isn't the same as >making *enough* money in the eyes of the music industry. I'm not an expert, >but that's the conclusion I've drawn. > >IMHO, that might be okay if you're industry sells soup, but when your >industry sells music, it's just wrong. > it's the same in the publishing industry. in order for a publishing company to even break even on their "risk" on an author, they have to be able to guarantee sales in the hundreds of thousands (of copies). and that's ANY author--not just new ones. that's why it's impossible for a new artist or author to make anything their first FEW attempts at distribution. you can be a prolific writer and have several things published through a major house and still not receive backing for it unless you hit that hundred thousands strata. there most definitely is a red line marking a place on a bar chart when any new undertaking actually sees the light of day, and it's considered a failure if it doesnt hit it. be well! - -- ~~S. Kelley Harrell, C.Ht. Soul Intent Arts An intertribal shamanic practice for Universal wellbeing Intentional Insight by Kelley ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V10 #178 **************************************