From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V9 #114 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Friday, November 12 2004 Volume 09 : Number 114 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: tori is a witch? [Kelley ] Re: tori is a witch? [Heather] Re: tori is a witch? [Richard Handal ] LBW Seeks Art Director/Layout Artist [Angela Reid ] RE: Overflow CD promo [songchicky ] Re: wtf? [Kelley ] RE: tori is a witch? ["Tom xxxxx" ] RE: maybe she's a witch,lost in time ["Pete Lambert" Subject: Re: tori is a witch? Heather wrote: > Also http://groups.msn.com/CymmorilsWiccanTeenSite/witchywomen.msnw is the article I first saw (on Lifetime TV's site two years ago or so). i saw that several years ago when it came out. but again, she's not the one saying it. it is being said about her by a random third party. it seems to have been based on comments from "Witch/author Fiona Horne in which she mentions Tori in and on the back cover of the new book she has edited called Pop! Goes The Witch: The Disinformation Guide to 21st Century Witchcraft. This is what Fiona writes: "Can you imagine Cybil Shepherd, Roseanne, Olympia Dukakis, TORI AMOS, Stevie Nicks, Chrissie Hynde, Sarah McLachlan, Marianne Williamson, Deepak Chopra, Erica Jong and Camille Paglia standing in a circle together beneath the Full Moon? I can." She goes on to say that these are among some of America's most prominent celebrities, authors and performers who have discovered the Goddess. She says that by these performers bringing this ancient wisdom to the attention of the media and the American public..." this is from thedent: http://thedent.com/more.php?id=P1660_0_1_0_C don't get me wrong--i'd be thrilled if she came out pagan, but i'm also fine with her not saying. discovering the Goddess doesn't make one a witch, or even pagan, or wiccan. but to assert what someone else is in religion, life perspective or lifestyle is as useful as asserting someone else's sexual orientation. she's never said that she is of a certain belief system. - -- ~ kelley Soul Intent Arts http://www.soulintentarts.com ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ The Saferoom Project http://www.saferoom.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 18:07:32 -0600 From: Heather Subject: Re: tori is a witch? Kelley (whom I hope will forgive me if she did not intend for this message to go to the list) wrote: Heather wrote: >>Also http://groups.msn.com/CymmorilsWiccanTeenSite/witchywomen.msnw is >>the article I first saw (on Lifetime TV's site two years ago or so). > >i saw that several years ago when it came out. but again, she's not the >one saying it. it is being said about her by a random third party. >it seems to have been based on comments from "Witch/author Fiona Horne in >which she mentions Tori in and on the back cover of the new book she has >edited called Pop! Goes The Witch: The Disinformation Guide to 21st >Century Witchcraft. This is what Fiona writes: > >"Can you imagine Cybil Shepherd, Roseanne, Olympia Dukakis, TORI AMOS, >Stevie Nicks, Chrissie Hynde, Sarah McLachlan, Marianne Williamson, Deepak >Chopra, Erica Jong and Camille Paglia standing in a circle together >beneath the Full Moon? I can." > >She goes on to say that these are among some of America's most prominent >celebrities, authors and performers who have discovered the Goddess. She >says that by these performers bringing this ancient wisdom to the >attention of the media and the American public..." > >this is from thedent: http://thedent.com/more.php?id=P1660_0_1_0_C > >don't get me wrong--i'd be thrilled if she came out pagan, but i'm also >fine with her not saying. discovering the Goddess doesn't make one a >witch, or even pagan, or wiccan. but to assert what someone else is in >religion, life perspective or lifestyle is as useful as asserting someone >else's sexual orientation. she's never said that she is of a certain >belief system. Fiona Horne is *not* well thought of by most pagans. I have not seen any denials from Tori, or heard of any lawsuits she's made against people who've claimed she is pagan. Believing in the goddess is the only belief common to all pagans, witches, and Wiccans that I have encountered. I agree: Every individual has the right to define him- or herself as s/he wishes. To hopefully end the personal attacks on me (I am not referring to anyone in particular; I chose Kelley's message to respond to because her messages have been, sadly, among the few courteous messages I have received): I am a witch. *I* think Tori is also a witch. I should not have stated that she is a witch. Tori does not have to state her religion or deny what others say -- whether she considers it a personal issue, or whether she simply doesn't feel a need to either "come out" or deny is no concern of mine. She *does* subscribe to many of the beliefs and practices of pagans, which is why *I* think she is a witch. I thought so long before the articles I've mentioned were ever published; I thought so simply based on her lyrics. In any case, I think the B3=be three=pagan concepts is a valid analogy/reference to consider. Tori is one of the images I have of the goddess; with her forthcoming album, perhaps she will become my main goddess, as I can see the potential that all three parts of the triple goddess will be there. YMMV if you are pagan, and will almost definitely vary if you are not. To those who wish to continue your personal attacks on me: My spiritual beliefs are none of your business. I don't believe in hell (except that which I see in the White House). The upkeep on such a prison isn't worth it. Namaste. Shutting up for another year or so now, Heather Stop apologizing for the things you've never done. 'Cause time is short, and life is cruel But it's up to us to change this town called Malice. -- Paul Weller (Special thanks to Dennis for this signature quote.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:23:50 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Handal Subject: Re: tori is a witch? Heather noted: > Austrian magazine "WIENERIN" calls Tori a "wicca-practicioner" > > (Nov 5, 2001) - Silvia Klement reports: > Tori Amos' name appeared in an article in the Austrian magazine > "WIENERIN", issue November 2001, on the subject of Wicca-Witches. It > stated that singer Tori Amos acknowledges to be a wicca-practicioner. I'm staying out of the meat of this discussion, but I want to point out yet again that all manner of bizarre and inaccurate crap gets printed and passes for fact. Back just a couple weeks or so I encountered a newly published article which said Tori had participated in Lilith Fair. She did not, but that hasn't stopped a small file cabinet full of articles having been published stating otherwise. (I sent an email letter to the editor of the paper but did not hear back from them. I've corrected multiple things before including this common mistake by telling the writer or the editor of a publication, and I never heard back from *any* of them.) I also think that keeping in mind a broader definition of "witch" than the narrowest one is a more useful idea for this conversation. I see no reason to get into a drawn out semantic discussion of who is or is not a witch by one person or the other's narrow definition. May as well duel with heavy dictionaries at ten paces. I think everyone would concede that if she weighs the same as a duck, she must be made of wood, and is therefore a witch. ;-) http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/grail/grail-05.htm Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. The least initial deviation from the truth is multiplied later a thousandfold. --Aristotle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:50:24 -0500 From: Angela Reid Subject: LBW Seeks Art Director/Layout Artist The quarterly fanzine Little Blue World (www.little-blue-world.org) is in search of an art director to process artwork submissions to Little Blue World and layout the zine for publication. Familiarity with Quark for Mac and basic Photoshop required. Own equipment and software essential. Must be skilled in design. Little Blue World's staff is volunteer; after the costs of production are paid, all revenues raised by the fanzine are donated to the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network (RAINN). Though the position is unpaid, LBW is a professionally published fanzine that would make a good addition to anyone's design portfolio. The Art Director/Layout Artist receives 5 copies per issue. Please e-mail a cover letter to artwork@little-blue-world.org telling us a bit about yourself and your qualifications and providing either a web link or samples of previous design experience. Questions about the position may be directed to Fastrada at that address. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 00:43:42 -0500 (EST) From: songchicky Subject: RE: Overflow CD promo Hey everyone, I'm really touched by how many people wrote me requesting my li'l old indie record. I appreciate it tremendously. Because of the numbers of emails I got, I'm tripling the numbers of free CDs I'm mailing out to 12. Unfortunately that won't cover everyone who asked, but that's as much as I can do at this time. I'll let everyone who wrote know whether I will or won't be able to send one. Thanks so much for your interest. Peace&Love, Tanisha. ===== tanishataitt.ca Debut album Overflow available now. ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:15:59 -0500 From: Kelley Subject: Re: wtf? Maria Aguirre wrote: > > Heather wrote: >> Tori is a witch. There are three life stages of witch-hood: >> maiden, > Um, how can you just make a statement like that? I dont think Tori > has ever publicly stated she was wiccan, and nothing she has ever > described about her spirituality suggest that either. So I'm curious > as to what your statement is based on. that's kinda what i was getting at. tori has flat out said she was not in past interviews. metaphorically, she definitely plays the role of 'woman before her time,' in that her ways are often nontrad and to some straight up blasphemous. that doesn't make her a witch in any religious sense. her imagery in writing and comments on relationships to the fae definitely connect her with Goddess-centric perspectives, if not Celtic ties (i mean, she DID move to cornwall, the home arthurian legend), but she has never claimed any specific religion or spirituality. just FYI, there is a difference between being a witch, being wiccan, and being pagan. there are whole essays written on this, which i'm only going to expound on if interested. be well! - -- ~ kelley Soul Intent Arts http://www.soulintentarts.com ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ The Saferoom Project http://www.saferoom.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:49:55 +0000 From: "Tom xxxxx" Subject: RE: tori is a witch? >Austrian magazine "WIENERIN" calls Tori a "wicca-practicioner" > >(Nov 5, 2001) - Silvia Klement reports: >Tori Amos' name appeared in an article in the Austrian magazine "WIENERIN", >issue November 2001, on the subject of Wicca-Witches. It stated that singer >Tori Amos acknowledges to be a wicca-practicioner. Other celebrities >mentioned: actress Cybill Shepherd. >Also http://groups.msn.com/CymmorilsWiccanTeenSite/witchywomen.msnw is the Hello again, While the mention of Tori in this article is very interesting, it's not proof that she's a witch. There is no direct quote from Tori or anyone close to her. For all we know, the author just threw in some names of witchy famous women to sensationalize the article. The fact that Tori has made no public denial of being a witch (which, BTW, Stevie Nicks has during an MTV interview), could be taken to mean a number of things. One is that she is a witch. Another is that she isnt' a witch and doesn't feel it's worth responding to the claims. So, IMHO, the question is still open and will remain so untiil Tori comes out and says what she is. Cheers, Tom M. "Can you Mr. Bush light the sage" - --- Tori Amos, "Indian Summer" > >Austrian magazine "WIENERIN" calls Tori a "wicca-practicioner" > >(Nov 5, 2001) - Silvia Klement reports: >Tori Amos' name appeared in an article in the Austrian magazine "WIENERIN", >issue November 2001, on the subject of Wicca-Witches. It stated that singer >Tori Amos acknowledges to be a wicca-practicioner. Other celebrities >mentioned: actress Cybill Shepherd. >Also http://groups.msn.com/CymmorilsWiccanTeenSite/witchywomen.msnw is the ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:20:43 +0000 From: "Pete Lambert" Subject: RE: maybe she's a witch,lost in time >While the mention of Tori in this article is very interesting, it's not >proof that she's a witch. Fortunately, anyone with an understanding of basic computer programming, and a regard for the works of Mr M Python, can easily resolve this contentious issue using the code that someone has written here: http://www.cs.swan.ac.uk/~csneal/SystemSpec/witch.maude My only problem is I've never got close enough to find out whether she really is made of wood. (and if none of this makes the remotest sense to you, don't worry, you're not the one loosing your marbles) Pete xxxx change, my dear _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V9 #114 *************************************