From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V8 #219 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Friday, September 26 2003 Volume 08 : Number 219 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re[2]: Tales [David Mobley ] Re: tori's astrological birth chart ["Lisa Zwick" ] Re: Tales [ChaseTornadoes@aol.com] Re: Tales [cyndi.crawford@juno.com] Re: Tales [Brian K Tanaka ] great quote about art, especially to traditionalist tori fans [JNe9027355] Re: precious-things-digest V8 #218 ["Tom xxxxx" ] Re: Tales [Nadyne Mielke ] Re: Tales ["RasinGirrl" ] (no subject) [ToriVolta@aol.com] Re: tori's astrological birth chart [copperbeech@nc.rr.com] I need help with the time change for Tori speaking about Billie Holiday [] Re: Tales ["Johnny Endicott" ] Re: Tales ["Lisa Zwick" ] Re: Tales [cyndi.crawford@juno.com] Fw: I need help with the time change for Tori speaking about Billie Holiday ["Nancy or William Cristiano" Subject: Re[2]: Tales Wednesday, September 24, 2003, 8:35:00 PM, you wrote: >>Allegedly, the live tracks are from the soundcheck at West Palm Beach. >>Which IMO makes them utterly un-special. GM> I wonder why that is. Is there a good reason to be so negative about it? Because personally, I feel that a soundcheck is not live. A soundcheck isn't part of "the show" that makes the normal performance of them special enough to capture. They might as well have been taping her in a studio somewhere for all I care, because the same vibe is there, which is "I have to be perfect" that Tori seems to adore. Aside from that, she played 3 songs for a soundcheck that she had barely played on the entire 2002/3 tour... and then didn't play them in the actual show for the last show of the tour, which a lot of people were expecting to be more than a generic "tori plays the hits for the DVD" show. GM> Anyhoo... I don't see why some people are already acting so negatively GM> towards this, just one day after learning about it. Not necessarily negative, but disappointed nontheless. GM> What's so wrong about the West Palm Beach soundcheck? You're going to have GM> to fill me in. After all, it's not like *I* have been to a Tori concert to GM> go around complaining about live performances and such. Heh. Because a soundcheck is not a concert. There's no energy, there's no vibe, there's only the cold empty seats and the cool practiced demeanor and the knowing that "If I screw it up, I can just re-do it and nobody will care" thing going on. A polished, well-performed song is nothing compared to a raw, energetic and completely enthralling performance in the heat of things. To me, there's a reason someone only pays $15 for a CD of polished and perfect music, but will easily pay $50 (or in some people's cases nearly all their savings and vacation time!) to see a live performance of Tori. And we're not getting that, we're getting the polish. But I'm sure everyone will be thrilled with the end result, as most people probably don't really care in the end and are happy with whatever they get. It's just not nearly as special as it could be to me, because it's not "a memory" for anyone except Tori and her crew, when in contrast with anything from an actual show... I mean just imagine how whoever the "girls from the coffee shop" feel whenever they hear the baker baker and famous blue raincoat b-sides from Venus's live album. That's special. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:14:19 -0400 From: "Lisa Zwick" Subject: Re: tori's astrological birth chart Did it occur to you that many of the people who can't do it don't take it so seriously either....and don't necessarily believe in it. I, personally, couldn't care less about her chart, but I have been to conventions and other places where celebrities were asked by someone if they can do their chart. So it doesn't seem like sucha big deal. If you work in that field, you probably take it a lot more seriously than most other people. I may just be proving my ignorance here, but how much personal stuff can it really give? Doesn't it just mean the stars were set up a certain way when she was born? Alright gonna stop now b/c I'm probably offending someone... - -Lisa - ------- > dissecting a song that the artist has put forward is not the same as taking their astro info and making their chart public (which someone mentioned doing onlist). MOST people wouldn't be able to interpret it even if someone did make it public. but those who can have insight into that person that is likely very private, if not shadow, that the person proper would never make public. that kind of work demands respect, as well as expedience of being able to make a chart in less than 5 minutes. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:37:35 EDT From: ChaseTornadoes@aol.com Subject: Re: Tales I agree, people that complain should just shut up cause they know they'll be the one's waitin in line at the store for it to open to get "the new tori cd"................. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:52:22 -0400 From: cyndi.crawford@juno.com Subject: Re: Tales >Allegedly, the live tracks are from the soundcheck at West Palm Beach. Which IMO makes them utterly un-special.< I honestly don't know about that. the TVAB version of Sugar is from a sound check (obviously--you hear no audience screaming.).. and it's bloody chill-inducing and entrancing.. and like Giovanni, I'd like to know why you think so. :) Sincerely, Cyndi S. Crawford "I know we're dying / and there's no sign of a parachute / we scream in cathedrals / why can't it be beautiful / why does there gotta be a sacrifice?" -- Tori Amos ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:17:48 -0700 From: Brian K Tanaka Subject: Re: Tales On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 12:35:00AM +0000, Giovanni Mantilla boldly wrote: > > Geez. I for one feel very excited that we are at least getting something > more than just the Greatest Hits CD. I'm excited too. I was expecting just a CD, a booklet, and a jewel case. I'm stoked about the extra stuff. And, even if they are from a soundcheck, I'm very pleased by the choice of songs for the videos. Yum. - -- - - Brian Tanaka - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 02:15:44 EDT From: JNe9027355@aol.com Subject: great quote about art, especially to traditionalist tori fans " 'product consistency' is essential in toothpaste and cheese; it's irrelevant in art." -Newman of Wire "Let the world know what you think, before the world lets you know what to think." Care About What You Consume? Know This Before You Buy Anything ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:12:46 +0000 From: "Tom xxxxx" Subject: Re: precious-things-digest V8 #218 Giovanni wisely responded: > >Allegedly, the live tracks are from the soundcheck at West Palm Beach. > > > >Which IMO makes them utterly un-special. > >I wonder why that is. Is there a good reason to be so negative about it? > >What's so wrong about the West Palm Beach soundcheck? You're going to have I agree with Giovanni here and with the rest of his post. It seems like we are getting a lot more than we thought we were, and any extra material is welcome. Also, if we are going to have a problem with material recorded at soundchecks, then we have to have a problem with "Venus." Weren't the versions of Sugar and Purple People on that CD from soundchecks? I seem to recall that they were. I, for one, am dying to hear "Snow Cherries..." which has been discussed for years. Now, if only we could get "Zero Point" and some other unreleased girls and have some officially released versions of the Scarlet bsides. Cheers, Tom M. "I will climb the ridge at daybreak, I will kiss the sky at noon, Raise my yearning voice at midnight to my mother in the moon." Dave Carter, "When I Go" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:07:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: Tales cyndi.crawford@juno.com wrote: > I honestly don't know about that. the TVAB version of Sugar > is from a sound check (obviously--you hear no audience screaming.).. > and it's bloody chill-inducing and entrancing.. and like Giovanni, I'd > like to know why you think so. :) The version of 'Sugar' on TVAB just annoys me. She did 'Sugar' so many times on that tour, and she had scads of excellent live (not soundcheck) performances from which she could choose, and she chose a soundcheck version? IMHO, the live album of TVAB misses the point of being a live album. The live album shows us how she changed the songs, remaking older ones to work in a band environment. It doesn't actually capture a live performance. She would have accomplished the same thing simply by recording her old songs in the studio with the band. David pointed out that an album is $15 and a concert ticket is $50 (or more, such as the $250+ auctions that RAINN organised for front-row tickets). You get one kind of experience from an album, and a very different experience from a concert. Tori ranks as one of the best live performers, and there's a reason for that: onstage, she is powerful, commanding, enthralling. You feel her command of the stage whether you are in the front row or the back corner of the balcony. An album (or DVD) can never fully capture the magic of a live performance. But it can come close. When you remove the concert from the live performance and only give us soundchecks, you're removing all of the magic that is associated with a live performance. /nm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:32:29 -0400 From: "RasinGirrl" Subject: Re: Tales I heard the soundcheck in Binghamton 98 where Sugar was recorded. And hearing it 5 times in a row kinda dulled it for me. When I listen to the cd, I wish it were from an actual show. They recorded every show in 98. I sorta wish they picked some different songs for the live cd. Being there in WPB and hearing the soundcheck live and in person was fantastic. The songs were great and although I couldn't see Tori, they were still really powerful. (huddled around with my friends listening to Tori on the last night was really emotional) But listening to them on a cd isn't going to be the same. It won't stir up the same feelings as hearing them live did. Live songs, with a crowd would have been better IMO. But I am very happy that we are getting more than I ever thought we would. And I will certainly be buying it the day it comes out. (Despite the stupid RIAA ban thingie) - - Danielle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:48:16 EDT From: ToriVolta@aol.com Subject: (no subject) David Mobley boldly wrote: >>Because a soundcheck is not a concert. There's no energy, there's no vibe, there's only the cold empty seats and the cool practiced demeanor and the knowing that "If I screw it up, I can just re-do it and nobody will care" thing going on. A polished, well-performed song is nothing compared to a raw, energetic and completely enthralling performance in the heat of things. >>It's just not nearly as special as it could be to me, because it's not "a memory" for anyone except Tori and her crew, when in contrast with anything from an actual show... I mean just imagine how whoever the "girls from the coffee shop" feel whenever they hear the baker baker and famous blue raincoat b-sides from Venus's live album. That's special. I agree with both sides. David has a point, and a damn good one, about missing that magik, that mythological mysterious power that Tori holds onstage (and offstage for that matter). It's raw, it's enthralling, it's simply gorgeous. I'm not saying that her soundchecks aren't amazing, in their own respect, though. Anything Tori does is fabulous, hell, she could read the frickin' cereal box and all of us would drool. Now onto sweet Giovanni. < Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 9:14 pm Subject: Re: tori's astrological birth chart > Did it occur to you that many of the people who can't do it don't > take it so > seriously either....and don't necessarily believe in it. of course. that's why i replied at all, because it was being taken very lightly. > I may just be proving my ignorance here, but how much personal > stuff can it > really give? Doesn't it just mean the stars were set up a certain > way when > she was born? the natal chart is a snapshot of the planets and stars et al at the moment of birth. it gives insight into karmic patterns of past lives, personality traits both overt and potentially hidden, relationships, timing of major life events, as well as indicates fields of personal growth needed and those already covered. it is very possible that information can come up in the reading of a chart, particularly by an intuitive astrologer, that is very private. this potential is even greater when looking into transits and progressions of the current cosmic layout, ie compared to that of the natal chart. check it out sometime. it's interesting stuff! be well! ~kelley www.soulintentarts.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:15:17 EDT From: ToriVolta@aol.com Subject: I need help with the time change for Tori speaking about Billie Holiday Hey, I was wondering if you know what time the Billie Holiday show will air live on the 'net, when it's 10:00 PM in the UK so I can tune in with me being on Central Time? Does that make sense? What is the time difference between the UK and Central Time? Thanks for your time. Peace Out, Amanda ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:27:43 +0000 From: "Johnny Endicott" Subject: Re: Tales Hi Everyone, I can't speak for everyone, but I know personally I'm feeling a bit empty after having Tori Amos around for so long. I was lucky enough to see eleven of the SW shows in about nine months, and it just seemed like she would be touring forever. The energizer chanteuse! Now, almost suddenly, *POOF*, she's gone. Until AT LEAST 2005. Ouch. I feel like it's the day after Christmas or something. Frankly, at this point, I'll take anything she wants to give to fill the void. There are, however, a couple of things perhaps worth considering. The Librarian set is coming from her former label, Atlantic. Fulfilling some contractual thingy or whatever...? Since she is now on a new label, and doing what I predicted long ago, basically "pulling a John Lennon" to raise her child and stuff, I'm sure being the savvy bizwoman she is, maybe we're in for a lot more surprises in lieu of her touring...? We could (*FINGERS TIGHTLY CROSSED!*) be in for a whole bunch of cool stuff! B-sides, maybe a children's project, a ten disc 12 year live box set, a Christmas album, I mean, who knows? Also, if you're a live performance purist, check out Tori-boot. There's no way a "generic" live CD can appeal to the special moments in each persons Tori memory bank. We're just too subjective. Through Tori-boot you can find the show(s) you were at and relive the memories over and over. In the meantime, special thanks to Nadyne, Beth, Violet, Woj, and especially MikeWhy for all the time and energy and help they put into our Tori pursuits. I really don't know what we would do without them. BRAVO!!!! Talk to you soon, see you in 2005! Johnny :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:14:15 -0400 From: "Lisa Zwick" Subject: Re: Tales I dunno about that. The one and only time I saw her, I could barely see her from my seat, and I didn't really enjoy it, b/c I didn't really feel like she was in the room with me. So the concert didn't really do much for me, being that I paid more attention to the lights than Tori herself. And from that I decided to stick to her albums, they do a lot more for me. - -Lisa - ------- - ------- > You feel her command of the stage > whether you are in the front row or the back corner of the balcony. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:51:30 -0400 From: cyndi.crawford@juno.com Subject: Re: Tales >And from that I decided to stick to her albums, they do a lot more for me.< well.. I dunno. that sucks that your only concert experience with her sucked.. but I suggest trying one more time to get seats that are relatively close to the stage.. see if you get a better feeling by doing that. all three of the concerts I've been to felt like just that--concerts. but I also felt incredible energy coming off of Tori and into my soul. sometimes, yes, I did pay more attention to the lights than to her, but overall, you could have knocked me over by just breathing on me. I was in bliss all three times. :) Sincerely, Cyndi S. Crawford "I know we're dying / and there's no sign of a parachute / we scream in cathedrals / why can't it be beautiful / why does there gotta be a sacrifice?" -- Tori Amos ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:36:37 -0400 From: "Nancy or William Cristiano" Subject: Fw: I need help with the time change for Tori speaking about Billie Holiday Hi Amanda, I'm Nancy, a newbie around here. I'm used to calculating this by EST, which is five hours' difference, but Central time should be 7 hours -- in other words, it is 7 hours later in the UK than in the US Central zone. At this moment, it's 1: 33 a.m. there, and should be 6:33 p.m. at your location. Hope this helps and good luck! I ADORE Billie Holliday. Love, Nancy - -----Original Message----- From: ToriVolta@aol.com To: precious-things@smoe.org Date: Thursday, September 25, 2003 7:42 PM Subject: I need help with the time change for Tori speaking about Billie Holiday > >Hey, >I was wondering if you know what time the Billie Holiday show will air live >on the 'net, when it's 10:00 PM in the UK so I can tune in with me being on >Central Time? Does that make sense? What is the time difference between the UK >and Central Time? Thanks for your time. > >Peace Out, >Amanda ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V8 #219 *************************************