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precious-things-digest Friday, March 21 2003 Volume 08 : Number 073
Today's Subjects:
-----------------
Re: indianapolis star concert review [Cyndi S Crawford <cyndi.crawford@ju]
Re: indianapolis star concert review ["Melissa" <alowman@sbcglobal.net>]
Music Choice Concert [Ange816@aol.com]
Re: indianapolis star concert review [Nadyne Mielke <nadyne@sbcglobal.net]
Re: indianapolis star concert review [Talula1982@aol.com]
Re: indianapolis star concert review [Cyndi S Crawford <cyndi.crawford@ju]
Re: Music Choice Concert [Richard Handal <handal@min.net>]
Re: Music Choice Concert [Ange816@aol.com]
indianapolis show [Toxic Witch <fakered@mchsi.com>]
Re: indianapolis show [RedSpark18@aol.com]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 00:03:39 -0500
From: Cyndi S Crawford <cyndi.crawford@juno.com>
Subject: Re: indianapolis star concert review
Woj posted a lovely review.. *ahem*.... and forgive this moment
in immaturity, but I just feel like saying it.. tee hee!
"Amos fails to help the cause with enunciation-free vocals that flirt
with self-parody."
No she doesn't, you're just a POOPHEAD!! ^_____^
*ahem..* Regarding that review on a more mature and serious
note.. sometimes I really wonder.. if it's just something that only a
fellow Toriphile would get.. that the average reviewer DOESN'T get.. I
dunno how to put it exactly, but I really wonder if Tori really works
that way--people who aren't fans of her don't get her, but people who ARE
fans, listen deeply and understand or try harder to understand than the
non-fans.. what do you guys think?
I'm thinking that the problem is that a lot of the people who
aren't devoted to Tori (on any level, mind you) just see her, hear her
music, and dismiss it all as "weird new-age hippie gibberish".. or if
maybe they're put off (uncomfortable perhaps?) by her overpowering
presence and immediately kind of step away.
I actually used to be kind of that way way back in the day..
around the UTP/BfP era. I'd see footage of Tori REALLY playing at her
piano with nothing short of white-hot passion, and I'd be like "O_O
scary.". It truly used to disturb me at the time.. Funny, no?
Sincerely, Cyndi S. Crawford
http://www.icenine.org/cyndi/ --
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/368/ciara_blaze.html --
http://learntothink0.tripod.com/learntothinkagain/ --
http://www.geocities.com/keyyooo/clique.html --
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=kittitude
Tori Amos' response when asked to describe herself in five words: "I. Do.
Not. Describe. Myself."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 06:38:12 -0800
From: "Melissa" <alowman@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: indianapolis star concert review
> ....I really wonder if Tori really works
> that way--people who aren't fans of her don't get her, but people who ARE
> fans, listen deeply and understand or try harder to understand than the
> non-fans.. what do you guys think?
Well...I know for me, it took me a long time...like 4 years.to even get to
the point where I could listen to all of her albums. So by now..I kind
of do have a relationship with the music..and it correlates with events
in my life..so that comes up at a concert..the connection I have with a
song.
> I'm thinking that the problem is that a lot of the people who
> aren't devoted to Tori (on any level, mind you) just see her, hear her
> music, and dismiss it all as "weird new-age hippie gibberish".. or if
> maybe they're put off (uncomfortable perhaps?) by her overpowering
> presence and immediately kind of step away.
I think sometimes she is really hard to understand...just how she
sings..if you don't already know the song, it can make the lyrics
incomprehensible. That's what happened to my BF when he
went...he could tell she played an amazing piano..but he was sad
that the sound setup drowned it out [he has a very good ear..plays
lots of musical instruments..] and he couldn't understand a word
she was saying. His first words when he listened to one of her
recorded songs was "wow..I can actually understand what
the heck she is saying now!" lol.
She sings in a different style live..and she
already annunciates words really strangely sometimes..[I still
am discovering lyrics that I've been hearing wrong for years..]
so it think that makes it hard for "new" people to "get" it.
So it seems that it littererally can just sound like a bunch of gibberish to
people who aren't familiar with her style and songs.
It's kind of like me listenening to Creedence Clearwater Revival..
they're really great musicians..I love the songs..but half the time
I have no clue what the heck the guy is saying because I am not used to
his accent. That kind of prevents my connecting with a song...and if
I saw them live..it would be awesome, but I'd be distanced a bit.
> I actually used to be kind of that way way back in the day..
> around the UTP/BfP era. I'd see footage of Tori REALLY playing at her
> piano with nothing short of white-hot passion, and I'd be like "O_O
> scary.". It truly used to disturb me at the time.. Funny, no?
>
It's funny..because she does seem a little..out there in inteviews..
just the things she says. So I can see how that could maybe put
people off a bit too.
What mainly scares me is some of her..fan following. It's like people
forget that she is human just like all of us..not some extraterrestrial
being with super powers. I think people put her on bit of a pedastol
when she is just a lady doing what she loves to do...and it happened
to touch tons of people, and help them help themselves through her
music. I dunno. I tend to be a bit of a realist..I don't like making
people out to mythic proportions. But I admire her, and respect
her very very much.
Just my thoughts. =]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 10:15:18 EST
From: Ange816@aol.com
Subject: Music Choice Concert
Has anyone seen the music choice concert? I've tried to go on the website
and search for the showtimes in my area but they don't list them. I went to
my local channel and found out what channel and what times they run the
concert series but so far she hasn't been on. What confuses me is they just
had a commercial for it on MTV and showed what channel but not the date that
it comes on! Does anyone have any more information on this show?
Angela
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 08:57:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Nadyne Mielke <nadyne@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: indianapolis star concert review
Cyndi S Crawford <cyndi.crawford@juno.com> wrote:
[Tori and enunciation]
> I'm thinking that the problem is that a lot of the people who
> aren't devoted to Tori (on any level, mind you) just see her, hear
> her music, and dismiss it all as "weird new-age hippie gibberish"..
> or if maybe they're put off (uncomfortable perhaps?) by her
> overpowering presence and immediately kind of step away.
I can't say that I don't think that the reviewer has a point. Many of
us here have commented that Tori's enunciation is ... ahem ... lacking
occasionally. She can be extremely hard to understand. Couple that
with occasional lyrics that are impenetrable to even Tori's biggest
fans (I haven't met anyone who's willing to tell me that they have
found a deep meaning to 'tuna rubber a little blubber in my igloo'
[1]), and Tori -can- be a little off-putting. I haven't heard anyone
call it gibberish, but if someone heard the wrong things, I wouldn't
really have a problem in seeing where they're coming from when they say
such a thing.
/nm
[1] Of course, now that I've said that, I'm going to get bombarded with
people saying 'but that is my favourite Tori lyric! it speaks to my
soul!'
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 13:17:23 EST
From: Talula1982@aol.com
Subject: Re: indianapolis star concert review
Hey, the guy is just expressing his opinion. There's no need to jump
all over him and go off on how wrong he is. And he brings up a valid point
with the lack of enunciation comment. It is annoying when you can't
understand what the singer is saying, particularly to those who do not have
every word memorized.
I don't think there's anything that the average reviewer "doesn't
get", he is just donig his job-- keeping an open mind and reviewing each show
objectively. It wouldn't be fair if they sent that paper sent the biggest
Tori fan they had to review that show, because it would be a glorious review
even if it truly wasn't deserved. Finally, he does write a number of
postive things about Tori and just because he didn't give a stellar, 100%
perfect review is no reason to be irritated with him and be so defensive.
~~Julie
In a message dated 3/20/2003 8:50:30 AM Eastern Standard Time,
cyndi.crawford@juno.com writes:
> "Amos fails to help the cause with enunciation-free vocals that flirt
> with self-parody."
> No she doesn't, you're just a POOPHEAD!! ^_____^
>
> *ahem..* Regarding that review on a more mature and serious
> note.. sometimes I really wonder.. if it's just something that only a
> fellow Toriphile would get.. that the average reviewer DOESN'T get.. I
> dunno how to put it exactly, but I really wonder if Tori really works
> that way--people who aren't fans of her don't get her, but people who ARE
> fans, listen deeply and understand or try harder to understand than the
> non-fans.. what do you guys think?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:01:31 -0500
From: Cyndi S Crawford <cyndi.crawford@juno.com>
Subject: Re: indianapolis star concert review
Julie said: "Hey, the guy is just expressing his opinion. There's no
need to jump all over him and go off on how wrong he is."
oh, bah, I'm just being silly. I truly could care less what the
guy thinks of Tori, negatively speaking. I just felt like saying that.
(blame it on undue stress from school and war, among other things) I also
wanted to start a discussion about how people perceive Tori, which is why
I said everything else I said, "poophead" comment aside. *shrug*
and Nadyne said: "I can't say that I don't think that the reviewer has a
point. Many of us here have commented that Tori's enunciation is ... ahem
.. lacking occasionally. She can be extremely hard to understand."
I certainly can vouch for that, but I always blamed it on being
hearing impaired more so than strictly the way Tori uses her enunciation,
so THAT never really entered my thoughts in such a way that you mention
it, and I say that because it's not just Tori that I have trouble
understanding in songs, it's everybody else from NIN to Michael Jackson
to Green Day to Bif Naked.
Sincerely, Cyndi S. Crawford
http://www.icenine.org/cyndi/ --
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/368/ciara_blaze.html --
http://learntothink0.tripod.com/learntothinkagain/ --
http://www.geocities.com/keyyooo/clique.html --
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=kittitude
Tori Amos' response when asked to describe herself in five words: "I. Do.
Not. Describe. Myself."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:42:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Richard Handal <handal@min.net>
Subject: Re: Music Choice Concert
Angela said:
> Has anyone seen the music choice concert? I've tried to go on the
> website and search for the showtimes in my area but they don't list
> them.
The weekly grid link <http://www.musicchoice.com/showcase1_grid.html> says
the Tori Amos Sound Check is on all five weekdays at 7:30pm and both
weekend days at 5:30pm, and lasts half an hour. The grid doesn't give the
days of the month and doesn't broach the idea of time zones, so it's easy
to understand Angela's confusion. Lacking any other sources of information
I'd suggest calling one's cable company (if that's how one is getting this
channel), or just act under the assumption that this grid is based on the
Eastern Time zone in the U.S. and adjust accordingly for one's own time
zone. There's a half-hour John Mayer Sound Check before the one with Tori,
so that can be your signpost that Tori's gonna come on at the next half
hour mark.
I wish I had this problem. I have no access to Music Choice, Oxygen, M2,
etc., etc.
Be seeing you,
Richard Handal, H.G.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 17:14:50 EST
From: Ange816@aol.com
Subject: Re: Music Choice Concert
I have seen/heard the music choice sound check with Tori but I was talking
about the concert series. I believe it's an hour show of Tori peforming. I
live in Florida so I went to see on the music choice website when it was
showing here in Gainesville but it only has showtimes for Tallahassee, Ft.
Walton, Fort Meyers and Sarasota. What confuses me is the fact that I just
saw a commercial for the concert series of Tori's in Gainesville and Ocala.
It's confusing!
Angela
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 22:06:00 -0600
From: Toxic Witch <fakered@mchsi.com>
Subject: indianapolis show
This was my fifth Tori concert, and the first time I'd heard her with the
band. (I have one boot from a previous tour with the band, but
unfortunately, it won't play on any of the six CD players I've tried it in.)
I've been a Tori fan since Little Earthquakes, which has remained my
favorite album -- and one of my top three albums by anyone of all
time. When Little Earthquakes came out, I was in my senior year of
college. At that time in my life, I was going through the beginning stages
of feeling my first love die -- of realizing just how human and flawed he
and I both were -- so Little Earthquakes easily spoke to my soul. I saw
her twice that year, in Kalamazoo and Grand Rapids, Michigan (the Grand
Rapids show was a free concert); both shows were amazing. I miss those
days -- when the audience was so enamored and respectful that you could
literally hear a pin drop during songs and there was no applause until the
last sound of the last note was played.
Over the years, each of Tori's albums has meant a great deal to me. It
seems I've gone through things that each of her albums been like a
soundtrack to ... and I can go back to any of her albums and find new
meanings in the songs that help me through whatever I may be going through
now. You know how some people say they can open the Bible to a random page
and find a line or a passage that gives them the guidance they are looking
for at a particular moment? Tori's music is like that for me. (I suppose
part of the reason is that she is pagan, like me.)
I saw her again on the Under the Pink tour in New Jersey and then recently
on the Strange Little Girls tour in St. Louis. This St. Louis show will
forever be a favorite -- my grandmother had just passed away the week
before and the set list for that show fit so well with what I was going
through that Tori could have chosen every song especially for me. It was
an incredibly personal, cathartic, spiritual, healing experience --
something Tori does often and well for many people.
The Indianapolis show was different.
I was sitting closer to the stage than I ever have before -- about eight
rows back. But I was on the right side of the theater, directly in front
of the right speaker. Maybe I was just in the wrong place, but the sound
at the beginning of the show was just *awful*. The drums and bass were far
louder than Tori's piano playing or singing, literally drowning her
out. There was one song during which I could not hear Tori or the piano
*at all*, so I could not identify it; this later turned out to be Siren
according to the set list posted on The Dent, and I'm sorry I missed that
because it's a favorite of mine. Wampum Prayer sounded *okay*, but from A
Sorta Fairytale through Talula, it was almost unbearable. I saw several
people in front of me cringing and covering their ears. Things cleared up
a little bit during Wednesday, Tori sounded fine during the three solo
songs, and fortunately the problem seemed to have been cleared up by the
time the band returned for Bells for Her -- but by then I had quite a
headache. There was one thing I picked up very clearly during this early
part of the show, though -- Tori was expressing a lot of anger, even in
songs that aren't typically her "angry songs."
The light show was a major interference, too. The effects on stage behind
Tori and the band looked really cool, but those of us sitting where we were
were blinded by lights directly in our eyes at least five times per
song. My husband quit watching all together and just closed his eyes for
the show. I noticed several other people doing the same thing. There was
no way I was going to close my eyes when I had a better view of Tori than I
ever have before, but the light show didn't help my headache any.
The audience -- those I could see without turning around who were in front
of us on the right and in the center -- was *very* restless. At least
three times per song, an entire row would have to stand up for someone
leaving to go to the bathroom (I assume). IMO, alcohol should never be
served at a sit-down show of any kind (play, concert, etc.) because that is
the kind of disruption it inevitably causes. Tori has an uncanny ability
to create what amounts to a pagan ritual circle during her concerts -- and
once the circle is closed, no one can leave and no one new can enter. The
audience around me constantly moving and leaving disrupted this circle
immensely, and this left me feeling very disconnected from Tori's
circle. Maybe I never had the chance to be inside the circle that night.
The set list was amazing -- and unexpected. And Tori's performance was ...
explosive. It was a perfect set list for the eve of war, and nuances in
Tori's expression of each sung word and in her piano playing made her
thoughts on it very clear. Covering John Lennon's Imagine was an obvious
choice, but Tori made it her own, as she so often does.
I haven't decided yet if I liked the band exactly ... Once I could hear
them *and* Tori, I liked the rhythm and sound ... but what the band played
all sounded pretty much the same, no matter which song Tori played. Maybe
I'd learn to notice the differences if I heard the songs over and over
again, but that's how I perceived it on a first listen.
I relish the fact that Tori now has a such a large base of songs from which
to play. The variety this offers is exciting, and offers the opportunity
that every concert is a completely new experience. I love hearing how each
of her songs -- her "girls" -- grow right along with her, and with me. I
heard a lot of this at the Strange Little Girls show in St. Louis, and I
heard more of it here. One of the best things about Tori's ability to let
her songs evolve in this way is that songs I didn't particularly care for
all that much originally can become favorites in their new
incarnations. Knowing that, I didn't mind at all that many of my album
favorites weren't in the set list -- each song from China on was wonderful
in its own way. I suspect that each of the preceding songs was just as
wonderful, and I hope that whatever tapers may have been there had better
seats so that someday I'll be able to hear the early part of the show as it
was meant to be heard. My personal favorite from this show was Take to the
Sky, but I've always liked that song. Bells for Her was incredible -- and
that's a song I didn't like when it was first released.
Overall, I was somewhat disappointed. The problems I've already mentioned
aside, this was my husband's first experience at a Tori concert, and he's
not very familiar with her music either, so I sort of wish the show had
been different. I've gone through a lot of heartache in the last year,
including losing both of my parents the night before my wedding, so I
needed something different, too. But I think disappointment was perhaps
something Tori wanted her audience that night to feel and deal with; it's
certainly something she was dealing with herself. I came away from the
show feeling that it wasn't the personal experience the previous shows I've
attended have been ... and yet, it was no less powerful an
experience. Maybe one of the reasons I felt so disconnected was because
that may have been part of Tori's message, too -- that things going on in
the world right now fell so out of our hands.
It will be very interesting to see where Tori goes with her set lists in
the coming weeks, and I look forward to hearing what those who have the
chance to experience those shows think.
Toxic Witch
*** Put that in your cauldron and bubble it ... ***
Don't play with fire ... Relax with wax! (Candles and candle holders)
Ask witchwax@mchsi.com about this month's special discounts!
Bookwitched@yahoogroups.com ... Where the *magic* of reading comes alive!
Cross Stitch Items Available for Trade or Sale:
http://members5.clubphoto.com/toxic344035/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 01:15:16 EST
From: RedSpark18@aol.com
Subject: Re: indianapolis show
It sounds like you had quite an experience. BUT it was a rock concert. It is
supposed to be loud and the lights are supposed to be in your face, they are
there to dazzle you. Although some times the bass and drums were a tad loud,
not ONCE during the four shows I attended did I not hear Tori let alone not
recognize a song!! And maybe there was a sound problem which i would not know
since I was not there BUT I don't think they'd let Tori go the first half of
the concert without directly addressing and correcting the problem. I agree
on one part, the beverage/pee problem is pretty bad and it does pull alot out
of the show to see people constantly getting up to pop a squat. I'm not
trying to be bitchy at all so please don't take it that way, I just think
that seeing as a band was playing with Tori it is supposed to sound somewhat
electrified and loud. Maybe i'm just way off.
~~carrie~
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------------------------------
End of precious-things-digest V8 #73
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