From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V8 #73 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Friday, March 21 2003 Volume 08 : Number 073 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: indianapolis star concert review [Cyndi S Crawford ] Music Choice Concert [Ange816@aol.com] Re: indianapolis star concert review [Nadyne Mielke ] Re: Music Choice Concert [Ange816@aol.com] indianapolis show [Toxic Witch ] Re: indianapolis show [RedSpark18@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 00:03:39 -0500 From: Cyndi S Crawford Subject: Re: indianapolis star concert review Woj posted a lovely review.. *ahem*.... and forgive this moment in immaturity, but I just feel like saying it.. tee hee! "Amos fails to help the cause with enunciation-free vocals that flirt with self-parody." No she doesn't, you're just a POOPHEAD!! ^_____^ *ahem..* Regarding that review on a more mature and serious note.. sometimes I really wonder.. if it's just something that only a fellow Toriphile would get.. that the average reviewer DOESN'T get.. I dunno how to put it exactly, but I really wonder if Tori really works that way--people who aren't fans of her don't get her, but people who ARE fans, listen deeply and understand or try harder to understand than the non-fans.. what do you guys think? I'm thinking that the problem is that a lot of the people who aren't devoted to Tori (on any level, mind you) just see her, hear her music, and dismiss it all as "weird new-age hippie gibberish".. or if maybe they're put off (uncomfortable perhaps?) by her overpowering presence and immediately kind of step away. I actually used to be kind of that way way back in the day.. around the UTP/BfP era. I'd see footage of Tori REALLY playing at her piano with nothing short of white-hot passion, and I'd be like "O_O scary.". It truly used to disturb me at the time.. Funny, no? Sincerely, Cyndi S. Crawford http://www.icenine.org/cyndi/ -- http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/368/ciara_blaze.html -- http://learntothink0.tripod.com/learntothinkagain/ -- http://www.geocities.com/keyyooo/clique.html -- http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=kittitude Tori Amos' response when asked to describe herself in five words: "I. Do. Not. Describe. Myself." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 06:38:12 -0800 From: "Melissa" Subject: Re: indianapolis star concert review > ....I really wonder if Tori really works > that way--people who aren't fans of her don't get her, but people who ARE > fans, listen deeply and understand or try harder to understand than the > non-fans.. what do you guys think? Well...I know for me, it took me a long time...like 4 years.to even get to the point where I could listen to all of her albums. So by now..I kind of do have a relationship with the music..and it correlates with events in my life..so that comes up at a concert..the connection I have with a song. > I'm thinking that the problem is that a lot of the people who > aren't devoted to Tori (on any level, mind you) just see her, hear her > music, and dismiss it all as "weird new-age hippie gibberish".. or if > maybe they're put off (uncomfortable perhaps?) by her overpowering > presence and immediately kind of step away. I think sometimes she is really hard to understand...just how she sings..if you don't already know the song, it can make the lyrics incomprehensible. That's what happened to my BF when he went...he could tell she played an amazing piano..but he was sad that the sound setup drowned it out [he has a very good ear..plays lots of musical instruments..] and he couldn't understand a word she was saying. His first words when he listened to one of her recorded songs was "wow..I can actually understand what the heck she is saying now!" lol. She sings in a different style live..and she already annunciates words really strangely sometimes..[I still am discovering lyrics that I've been hearing wrong for years..] so it think that makes it hard for "new" people to "get" it. So it seems that it littererally can just sound like a bunch of gibberish to people who aren't familiar with her style and songs. It's kind of like me listenening to Creedence Clearwater Revival.. they're really great musicians..I love the songs..but half the time I have no clue what the heck the guy is saying because I am not used to his accent. That kind of prevents my connecting with a song...and if I saw them live..it would be awesome, but I'd be distanced a bit. > I actually used to be kind of that way way back in the day.. > around the UTP/BfP era. I'd see footage of Tori REALLY playing at her > piano with nothing short of white-hot passion, and I'd be like "O_O > scary.". It truly used to disturb me at the time.. Funny, no? > It's funny..because she does seem a little..out there in inteviews.. just the things she says. So I can see how that could maybe put people off a bit too. What mainly scares me is some of her..fan following. It's like people forget that she is human just like all of us..not some extraterrestrial being with super powers. I think people put her on bit of a pedastol when she is just a lady doing what she loves to do...and it happened to touch tons of people, and help them help themselves through her music. I dunno. I tend to be a bit of a realist..I don't like making people out to mythic proportions. But I admire her, and respect her very very much. Just my thoughts. =] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 10:15:18 EST From: Ange816@aol.com Subject: Music Choice Concert Has anyone seen the music choice concert? I've tried to go on the website and search for the showtimes in my area but they don't list them. I went to my local channel and found out what channel and what times they run the concert series but so far she hasn't been on. What confuses me is they just had a commercial for it on MTV and showed what channel but not the date that it comes on! Does anyone have any more information on this show? Angela ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 08:57:36 -0800 (PST) From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: indianapolis star concert review Cyndi S Crawford wrote: [Tori and enunciation] > I'm thinking that the problem is that a lot of the people who > aren't devoted to Tori (on any level, mind you) just see her, hear > her music, and dismiss it all as "weird new-age hippie gibberish".. > or if maybe they're put off (uncomfortable perhaps?) by her > overpowering presence and immediately kind of step away. I can't say that I don't think that the reviewer has a point. Many of us here have commented that Tori's enunciation is ... ahem ... lacking occasionally. She can be extremely hard to understand. Couple that with occasional lyrics that are impenetrable to even Tori's biggest fans (I haven't met anyone who's willing to tell me that they have found a deep meaning to 'tuna rubber a little blubber in my igloo' [1]), and Tori -can- be a little off-putting. I haven't heard anyone call it gibberish, but if someone heard the wrong things, I wouldn't really have a problem in seeing where they're coming from when they say such a thing. /nm [1] Of course, now that I've said that, I'm going to get bombarded with people saying 'but that is my favourite Tori lyric! it speaks to my soul!' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 13:17:23 EST From: Talula1982@aol.com Subject: Re: indianapolis star concert review Hey, the guy is just expressing his opinion. There's no need to jump all over him and go off on how wrong he is. And he brings up a valid point with the lack of enunciation comment. It is annoying when you can't understand what the singer is saying, particularly to those who do not have every word memorized. I don't think there's anything that the average reviewer "doesn't get", he is just donig his job-- keeping an open mind and reviewing each show objectively. It wouldn't be fair if they sent that paper sent the biggest Tori fan they had to review that show, because it would be a glorious review even if it truly wasn't deserved. Finally, he does write a number of postive things about Tori and just because he didn't give a stellar, 100% perfect review is no reason to be irritated with him and be so defensive. ~~Julie In a message dated 3/20/2003 8:50:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, cyndi.crawford@juno.com writes: > "Amos fails to help the cause with enunciation-free vocals that flirt > with self-parody." > No she doesn't, you're just a POOPHEAD!! ^_____^ > > *ahem..* Regarding that review on a more mature and serious > note.. sometimes I really wonder.. if it's just something that only a > fellow Toriphile would get.. that the average reviewer DOESN'T get.. I > dunno how to put it exactly, but I really wonder if Tori really works > that way--people who aren't fans of her don't get her, but people who ARE > fans, listen deeply and understand or try harder to understand than the > non-fans.. what do you guys think? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:01:31 -0500 From: Cyndi S Crawford Subject: Re: indianapolis star concert review Julie said: "Hey, the guy is just expressing his opinion. There's no need to jump all over him and go off on how wrong he is." oh, bah, I'm just being silly. I truly could care less what the guy thinks of Tori, negatively speaking. I just felt like saying that. (blame it on undue stress from school and war, among other things) I also wanted to start a discussion about how people perceive Tori, which is why I said everything else I said, "poophead" comment aside. *shrug* and Nadyne said: "I can't say that I don't think that the reviewer has a point. Many of us here have commented that Tori's enunciation is ... ahem .. lacking occasionally. She can be extremely hard to understand." I certainly can vouch for that, but I always blamed it on being hearing impaired more so than strictly the way Tori uses her enunciation, so THAT never really entered my thoughts in such a way that you mention it, and I say that because it's not just Tori that I have trouble understanding in songs, it's everybody else from NIN to Michael Jackson to Green Day to Bif Naked. Sincerely, Cyndi S. Crawford http://www.icenine.org/cyndi/ -- http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/368/ciara_blaze.html -- http://learntothink0.tripod.com/learntothinkagain/ -- http://www.geocities.com/keyyooo/clique.html -- http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=kittitude Tori Amos' response when asked to describe herself in five words: "I. Do. Not. Describe. Myself." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:42:40 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Handal Subject: Re: Music Choice Concert Angela said: > Has anyone seen the music choice concert? I've tried to go on the > website and search for the showtimes in my area but they don't list > them. The weekly grid link says the Tori Amos Sound Check is on all five weekdays at 7:30pm and both weekend days at 5:30pm, and lasts half an hour. The grid doesn't give the days of the month and doesn't broach the idea of time zones, so it's easy to understand Angela's confusion. Lacking any other sources of information I'd suggest calling one's cable company (if that's how one is getting this channel), or just act under the assumption that this grid is based on the Eastern Time zone in the U.S. and adjust accordingly for one's own time zone. There's a half-hour John Mayer Sound Check before the one with Tori, so that can be your signpost that Tori's gonna come on at the next half hour mark. I wish I had this problem. I have no access to Music Choice, Oxygen, M2, etc., etc. Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 17:14:50 EST From: Ange816@aol.com Subject: Re: Music Choice Concert I have seen/heard the music choice sound check with Tori but I was talking about the concert series. I believe it's an hour show of Tori peforming. I live in Florida so I went to see on the music choice website when it was showing here in Gainesville but it only has showtimes for Tallahassee, Ft. Walton, Fort Meyers and Sarasota. What confuses me is the fact that I just saw a commercial for the concert series of Tori's in Gainesville and Ocala. It's confusing! Angela ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 22:06:00 -0600 From: Toxic Witch Subject: indianapolis show This was my fifth Tori concert, and the first time I'd heard her with the band. (I have one boot from a previous tour with the band, but unfortunately, it won't play on any of the six CD players I've tried it in.) I've been a Tori fan since Little Earthquakes, which has remained my favorite album -- and one of my top three albums by anyone of all time. When Little Earthquakes came out, I was in my senior year of college. At that time in my life, I was going through the beginning stages of feeling my first love die -- of realizing just how human and flawed he and I both were -- so Little Earthquakes easily spoke to my soul. I saw her twice that year, in Kalamazoo and Grand Rapids, Michigan (the Grand Rapids show was a free concert); both shows were amazing. I miss those days -- when the audience was so enamored and respectful that you could literally hear a pin drop during songs and there was no applause until the last sound of the last note was played. Over the years, each of Tori's albums has meant a great deal to me. It seems I've gone through things that each of her albums been like a soundtrack to ... and I can go back to any of her albums and find new meanings in the songs that help me through whatever I may be going through now. You know how some people say they can open the Bible to a random page and find a line or a passage that gives them the guidance they are looking for at a particular moment? Tori's music is like that for me. (I suppose part of the reason is that she is pagan, like me.) I saw her again on the Under the Pink tour in New Jersey and then recently on the Strange Little Girls tour in St. Louis. This St. Louis show will forever be a favorite -- my grandmother had just passed away the week before and the set list for that show fit so well with what I was going through that Tori could have chosen every song especially for me. It was an incredibly personal, cathartic, spiritual, healing experience -- something Tori does often and well for many people. The Indianapolis show was different. I was sitting closer to the stage than I ever have before -- about eight rows back. But I was on the right side of the theater, directly in front of the right speaker. Maybe I was just in the wrong place, but the sound at the beginning of the show was just *awful*. The drums and bass were far louder than Tori's piano playing or singing, literally drowning her out. There was one song during which I could not hear Tori or the piano *at all*, so I could not identify it; this later turned out to be Siren according to the set list posted on The Dent, and I'm sorry I missed that because it's a favorite of mine. Wampum Prayer sounded *okay*, but from A Sorta Fairytale through Talula, it was almost unbearable. I saw several people in front of me cringing and covering their ears. Things cleared up a little bit during Wednesday, Tori sounded fine during the three solo songs, and fortunately the problem seemed to have been cleared up by the time the band returned for Bells for Her -- but by then I had quite a headache. There was one thing I picked up very clearly during this early part of the show, though -- Tori was expressing a lot of anger, even in songs that aren't typically her "angry songs." The light show was a major interference, too. The effects on stage behind Tori and the band looked really cool, but those of us sitting where we were were blinded by lights directly in our eyes at least five times per song. My husband quit watching all together and just closed his eyes for the show. I noticed several other people doing the same thing. There was no way I was going to close my eyes when I had a better view of Tori than I ever have before, but the light show didn't help my headache any. The audience -- those I could see without turning around who were in front of us on the right and in the center -- was *very* restless. At least three times per song, an entire row would have to stand up for someone leaving to go to the bathroom (I assume). IMO, alcohol should never be served at a sit-down show of any kind (play, concert, etc.) because that is the kind of disruption it inevitably causes. Tori has an uncanny ability to create what amounts to a pagan ritual circle during her concerts -- and once the circle is closed, no one can leave and no one new can enter. The audience around me constantly moving and leaving disrupted this circle immensely, and this left me feeling very disconnected from Tori's circle. Maybe I never had the chance to be inside the circle that night. The set list was amazing -- and unexpected. And Tori's performance was ... explosive. It was a perfect set list for the eve of war, and nuances in Tori's expression of each sung word and in her piano playing made her thoughts on it very clear. Covering John Lennon's Imagine was an obvious choice, but Tori made it her own, as she so often does. I haven't decided yet if I liked the band exactly ... Once I could hear them *and* Tori, I liked the rhythm and sound ... but what the band played all sounded pretty much the same, no matter which song Tori played. Maybe I'd learn to notice the differences if I heard the songs over and over again, but that's how I perceived it on a first listen. I relish the fact that Tori now has a such a large base of songs from which to play. The variety this offers is exciting, and offers the opportunity that every concert is a completely new experience. I love hearing how each of her songs -- her "girls" -- grow right along with her, and with me. I heard a lot of this at the Strange Little Girls show in St. Louis, and I heard more of it here. One of the best things about Tori's ability to let her songs evolve in this way is that songs I didn't particularly care for all that much originally can become favorites in their new incarnations. Knowing that, I didn't mind at all that many of my album favorites weren't in the set list -- each song from China on was wonderful in its own way. I suspect that each of the preceding songs was just as wonderful, and I hope that whatever tapers may have been there had better seats so that someday I'll be able to hear the early part of the show as it was meant to be heard. My personal favorite from this show was Take to the Sky, but I've always liked that song. Bells for Her was incredible -- and that's a song I didn't like when it was first released. Overall, I was somewhat disappointed. The problems I've already mentioned aside, this was my husband's first experience at a Tori concert, and he's not very familiar with her music either, so I sort of wish the show had been different. I've gone through a lot of heartache in the last year, including losing both of my parents the night before my wedding, so I needed something different, too. But I think disappointment was perhaps something Tori wanted her audience that night to feel and deal with; it's certainly something she was dealing with herself. I came away from the show feeling that it wasn't the personal experience the previous shows I've attended have been ... and yet, it was no less powerful an experience. Maybe one of the reasons I felt so disconnected was because that may have been part of Tori's message, too -- that things going on in the world right now fell so out of our hands. It will be very interesting to see where Tori goes with her set lists in the coming weeks, and I look forward to hearing what those who have the chance to experience those shows think. Toxic Witch *** Put that in your cauldron and bubble it ... *** Don't play with fire ... Relax with wax! (Candles and candle holders) Ask witchwax@mchsi.com about this month's special discounts! Bookwitched@yahoogroups.com ... Where the *magic* of reading comes alive! Cross Stitch Items Available for Trade or Sale: http://members5.clubphoto.com/toxic344035/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 01:15:16 EST From: RedSpark18@aol.com Subject: Re: indianapolis show It sounds like you had quite an experience. BUT it was a rock concert. It is supposed to be loud and the lights are supposed to be in your face, they are there to dazzle you. Although some times the bass and drums were a tad loud, not ONCE during the four shows I attended did I not hear Tori let alone not recognize a song!! And maybe there was a sound problem which i would not know since I was not there BUT I don't think they'd let Tori go the first half of the concert without directly addressing and correcting the problem. I agree on one part, the beverage/pee problem is pretty bad and it does pull alot out of the show to see people constantly getting up to pop a squat. I'm not trying to be bitchy at all so please don't take it that way, I just think that seeing as a band was playing with Tori it is supposed to sound somewhat electrified and loud. Maybe i'm just way off. ~~carrie~ [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Rainbow.jpg] ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V8 #73 ************************************