From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V7 #188 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Thursday, August 22 2002 Volume 07 : Number 188 Today's Subjects: ----------------- FW: HAPPY BIRTHDAY 2002 RAINN BENEFIT ["trent.easyjournal.com" ] hellllllp meeeeee? [Cyndi S Crawford ] Re: NYC RAINN Bash info, anyone? [Scott Kenney ] Re: NYC RAINN Bash info, anyone? ["Lisa Zwick" ] Re:signing to commercial label [Dracovixen@aol.com] Re: why singles? [Dracovixen@aol.com] Copy protection ["ForgottenSecret" ] Re: NYC RAINN Bash info, anyone? [Richard Handal ] Re: Copy protection ["Mike Gray" ] Re: signing to commercial label [Cyndi S Crawford ] New Promo Pics [Torium@aol.com] Re: Copy protection ["Mike Gray" ] Re: rant about commercialism ["Emma Lorelei" ] Re: Copy protection ["Lisa Zwick" ] Ftch vs TVaB vs SLG (long!) ["p.m." ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 00:18:12 -0400 From: "trent.easyjournal.com" Subject: FW: HAPPY BIRTHDAY 2002 RAINN BENEFIT - -----Original Message----- From: Tori Amos [mailto:toriamos-html@rtn.epicrecordsemail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 10:50 PM To: Tori Amos Subject: HAPPY BIRTHDAY 2002 RAINN BENEFIT NEWS TORI FANS, As part of a worldwide fundraiser for RAINN, (Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network), Nation, Primacy Companies and Buzzlife Productions are sponsoring the Happy Birthday 2002 party on August 23 in Washington, DC. The party celebrates RAINN's 8th birthday, and also founding member, Tori Amos' birthday. A special appearance will be made by Tori's parents, and an exclusive audio clip recorded by Tori just last week especially for party hosts will be aired at the party. Details are as follows: - - August 23, 2002 - - Washington D.C. at NATION at Half and K Streets, SE - - 6-9PM 100% of the proceeds benefit RAINN. Find out more or find a party closer to you if you're not in the DC area: http://birthday.rainn.org Get more on RAINN: http://www.RAINN.org And get more on Tori: http://www.toriamos.com If you do not wish to receive any more mailings from Tori Amos, click here to unsubscribe. Copyright C 2002 Sony Music Entertainment Inc. All rights reserved. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 01:16:42 -0300 From: "cdrv" Subject: Re: Poor Tori... (rant) Hi! I do not know much about Copy-protected Cds. Does the copy-protection cancel out, the posibility to include multimedia portion on the disc?. Also, Does the US Cd Album, will be copy protection free? Thanks Daniel - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Gray" To: Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 5:40 PM Subject: Re: Poor Tori... (rant) > OK, so now I'm angry. I know for a 99% certainty that the UK version will be > copy protected with Sony's "Key 2 Audio" protection, which means no > multimedia portion, which means no way of downloading additional B-Sides. > Mike ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 02:55:47 -0400 From: Cyndi S Crawford Subject: hellllllp meeeeee? okay, I've got a little letter that I want to print up and send to Tori.. (kinda a little "happy birthday" thing.. she's at Epic now.. I *had* her Atlantic Records mailing address.. does ANYBODY know what her Epic records address is? If anybody can help me out, I'd REALLY appreciate it. Sincerely, Cyndi S. Crawford http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/368/ciara_blaze.html -- http://learntothink0.tripod.com/learntothinkagain/ -- http://www.geocities.com/keyyooo/ -- http://www.platinumcomplication.com/cyndi/ -- http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=kittitude Tori Amos' response when asked to describe herself in five words: "I. Do. Not. Describe. Myself." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 03:12:56 -0400 From: Scott Kenney Subject: Re: NYC RAINN Bash info, anyone? On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 11:02:48PM -0400, Richard Handal wrote: > > Hi, > > I just went to and clicked on New York and > there wasn't a single RAINN Bash listed in the entire state. I'm having a > hard time believing this is accurate. I'd like to be able to tell some > friends up there what's going on if there *is* anything going on. > > Anybody here know? I know about this one in Buffalo(courtesy of KM on rmta): contact: bluemoonsiren@aol.com The 2nd Annual Birthday Benefit for RAINN is happening August 24th at the Central Park Grill, 2519 Main Street, Buffalo with an 8pm start time. We'll be celebrating with live music, some niffty raffles and an auction. Items for auction include pieces donated by area artists, as well as a set of movie posters autographed and donated by film maker Kevin Smith, a Stardust poster autographed and donated by author Neil Gaiman, a set of Tori Amos tour programs autographed by Neil Gaiman, an autographed Bob Masse poster designed by Mr. Masse with the specific intent of raising money for RAINN through these parties, as well as several other (mostly music) related items. We've decided to charge $7.00 at the door this year in hopes more of you and a couple of your friends can make it. Giving has been a little down for RAINN this year...and they really need your support. We raised $1500.00 (enough to run the phone lines for 12 hrs) last year here in Buffalo, and I'd be thrilled if we could surpass that... - -- Scott Kenney >|< saken@hotel.rmta.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 05:10:17 -0400 From: Cyndi S Crawford Subject: yipes!! AAAACK!!! Tori's birthday is tomorrow!!!!! sorry to say something so short and almost random, but.. hey, it's her birthday, you guys! I'd certainly think that's something worth going "ack!" over. :D Sincerely, Cyndi S. Crawford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 09:36:40 -0400 From: "Lisa Zwick" Subject: Re: NYC RAINN Bash info, anyone? Why do we find out about these things only a few days before the actual event? How is anyone supposed to plan for it? - -Lisa - ----- Original Message ----- > > I know about this one in Buffalo(courtesy of KM on rmta): > > contact: bluemoonsiren@aol.com > > The 2nd Annual Birthday Benefit for RAINN is happening August 24th at > the Central Park Grill, 2519 Main Street, Buffalo with an 8pm start > time. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 14:38:55 EDT From: Dracovixen@aol.com Subject: Re:signing to commercial label In a message dated 8/21/02 1:21:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org writes: > The whole point of signing a contract with a major label is to gain exposure > and sell records. Can I repeat that? The entire point of signing a contract > with a major label is to gain exposure and sell records. When you sign a > contract, you are doing so because the record label feels you could be > financially beneficial for them and because you feel the record label can > adequately promote your material and be financially beneficial for you. > I totally agree. And, as a dj at a college radio station, this is one thing I have learned in how to draw in listeners: Play something they know. Then, play a couple other somethings that they don't. Then, play something they know or would be easily accessible. And continue that cycle. Now, as an artist, you can apply it as such. Play something they'll like. Draw them in. Then introduce them to the other, less-accessible more thought-provoking songs. It was songs like "Caught a Lite Sneeze" that first drew me in to Tori...and then I heard everything else, and gradually fell in love, and into obsession. :) Now we can grab those new Toriphiles, and say, "She's not all commercialized music! Listen to this!" And make them REALLY listen....and think... Black Dove ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 14:23:20 EDT From: Dracovixen@aol.com Subject: Re: why singles? In a message dated 8/21/02 1:21:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org writes: > My point exactly. She doesn't need extra exposure. She could stop > releasing singles if she wanted to (unless her contract forces her > to) ... but she doesn't. Why ?... She probably wants to draw even > more attention. What could be another reason ? B-sides!!!! Those goddamn lovable B-sides!!!! and Remixes!!! and edits and mixes and other yummy things, and even videos!!! But most of all, b-sides!!! Black Dove ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 19:45:47 +0100 From: "ForgottenSecret" Subject: Copy protection If the CD is enhanced it will allow you to use it as that is what it is for. The copy porotection doesn't allow you to rip the CD's to MP3 or copy them onto other CD's Nearly ALL Cd's released are copy protected now but there are programmes to get around it - -----Original Message----- From: owner-precious-things@smoe.org [mailto:owner-precious-things@smoe.org]On Behalf Of cdrv Sent: 21 August 2002 05:17 To: Mike Gray; precious-things@smoe.org Subject: Re: Poor Tori... (rant) Hi! I do not know much about Copy-protected Cds. Does the copy-protection cancel out, the posibility to include multimedia portion on the disc?. Also, Does the US Cd Album, will be copy protection free? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:54:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Handal Subject: Re: NYC RAINN Bash info, anyone? Hello, Thanks to everyone who wrote with RAINN bash info. The NYC bash was cancelled, which is truly unbelievable to me. http://home.earthlink.net/~nycrainn/Party.html I never would have imagined that. Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 23:00:28 +0100 From: "Mike Gray" Subject: Re: Copy protection > other CD's Nearly ALL Cd's released are copy protected now This is entirely inaccurate. In the US *very* few CDs indeed are copy protected, primarily due to the rather litigious nature of some of it's citizens, along with fair use legislation. The only one that springs to mind was one of the soundtracks to The Fast & The Furious and that Charlie Parker CD which was the casue of all the initial furore over protection. Copy protection largely precludes any kind of multimedia track (with the possible exception of Cactus Midbar which sometimes includes a small player application with some crappy MP3s of the songs in a proprietary format) and the one employed by Sony/Epic certainly does. In the UK, Sony and all subsiduary labels (Epic/Columbia/S2/Independiente et al) have copy protected as a matter of course all new full price releases using Key 2 Audio since approximately March of this year. This protection precludes the option of any multimedia portion of any kind, along with ripping to MP3, which means that as things stand right now (and I have confirmed this) Scarlet's Walk in the UK will *not* contain the multimedia portion which the US is set to have. The only otherl label in the UK that I'm aware has ever actively protected a CD was BMG who protected White Lillies Island by Natalie Imbruglia using Cactus Midbar technology. In mainland Europe all Zomba releases are, I believe, protected. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:59:26 -0400 From: Cyndi S Crawford Subject: Re: signing to commercial label Black Dove said: "...as a dj at a college radio station, this is one thing I have learned in how to draw in listeners: Play something they know. Then, play a couple other somethings that they don't. Then, play something they know or would be easily accessible. And continue that cycle. ... It was songs like "Caught a Lite Sneeze" that first drew me in to Tori...and then I heard everything else, and gradually fell in love, and into obsession. :)" You are VERY right. I remember liking Caught A Lite Sneeze when I first saw the video.. I also remember thinking the video for Spark was freaky, but that the song had a bit of really good mystique to it, and then I remember seeing Bliss--and later recalling it as an upbeat happy jazzy bouncy song--not the song that grabs me now and emotionally drains me.. anyway.. it was the video for Hey Jupiter that dug Tori's hooks under my skin and reeled me right in.. would you consider that song--the video/Dakota version, anyway--as commercially accessible? :) Sincerely, Cyndi S. Crawford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 18:05:31 EDT From: Nelsewhere@aol.com Subject: Re: Copy protection i have to disagree. only four US cds have been copyprotected so far as of two months ago or so in Rolling Stone. i'll try to find the issue. in it, it mentions someone thinking Tori was copyprotected, meanwhile the record label doesnt have the technology to copy protect yet. nick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 18:32:21 -0300 From: "cdrv" Subject: Re: Copy protection Are there programs to get around it? Sweet! It is not that I LOVE ripping artist and the whole issue, but the fact is that when the album is not release in your country domestically, and you cannot get imports; mp3 burn Cd-rs pretty much do the trick for you... I think that true fans and musicphiles sooner or later end up being the silver-factory pressed albums, but the main point is just the random listener.... I hope SW is release here in Argentina and South America, Becuase you have really a Hard Time getting Imports (Like TV&B, tell me about it, I spent almost 5 months tracking the discs!), and mp3s of SW tracks could do the trick If by ANY OTHER MEANS I cannot get the official album... BUt with EPIC Copy-protecting Cds and the whole issue, who knows.... Anyway, See Ya :) Daniel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 18:30:19 EDT From: Torium@aol.com Subject: New Promo Pics Are now available on The Dent - and they are gorgeous! OMG! dink :)~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 00:13:36 +0100 From: "Mike Gray" Subject: Re: Copy protection > Are there programs to get around it? The trick is to only rip the first session from a Key2Audio disc, as this contains the music. Session 2 is just random junk. So if you happened to have Clone CD (www.elby.de) and happened to set it to "Audio CD" and then click "edit" and make sure that "read first session only" (i'm paraphrasing) is ticked, and then created a copy that way, which turned out not to be copy protected, then... umm... I didn't tell you how. :p Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 00:35:53 +0000 From: "Emma Lorelei" Subject: Re: rant about commercialism Hi everybody. I've waited to comment on this song till I heard about 15 times or so so I could get really deep inside. This is the meaning I've found inside it, at least for me. This song runs on a highway I believe in California. Tori was raped in a car on a road (possibly a highway) in CA. "Things you said that day, up on the 101 the girl had come undone" Tori has said publically that she is "divided" which is a "disease" and has a lot of emotional after affects from her rape "You said you'd take it as long as I could, I could not erase it" I'm not sure if this is written to be a double meaning, if the character in the song is saying he'd take it as long as she could (meaning the problems in the relationship) or if he is saying he would only be with her ("take it") if she could not erase and forget him and numb him away (remember in Baker Baker "and he said I've pushed him away") I believe this song is about her not being emotionally available to someone (probably Eric) and she is very sad that in way this contributed to them losing themselves and each other. "For me to break your bread, for me to take your word I had to steal it" is the end of the love when she is lost to the open road. He was lying to her, and she had to steal the truth from him possibly by lying herself to get it out. At the end of the song she "took her day" and "put the hood back where you could taste heaven perfectly". Her day is her time, that feeling when you have lost a love but you have found yourself and your own things again. The "hood" in this song could be a car hood, a hood on a sweater used to hide things from people/ declare independance or could even be (in my perverted mind) a sexual reference to a man's uncircumcised penis. Either of these three add depth and richness to the song. Anyway this is what I got so far. The first time I heard it I also found it poppy but you know with Tori's work you have to go deeper. She expects that. Her music is not cheap, its not short or shallow, and it never has been. So what if she wants to make a little money and get some exposure? She has a child to feed for christ's sake. Tori has said if you hear her music and don't enjoy it, it is 50% your fault. You have to share in the blame here, maybe you are not willing to rest your tongue and just really listen to her anymore. That's fair and that's your right, but music is a mirror and you need to see what that says about you and your relationship/openness to her message. - -Emma ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:23:41 -0400 From: "Lisa Zwick" Subject: Re: Copy protection It can also cause problems if you play it on your computer. I think it doesn't play on computers, and has even crashed some. - -Lisa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:44:10 -0400 From: "p.m." Subject: Ftch vs TVaB vs SLG (long!) EWF, In the midst of all of the current kvetching about if (and where) the quality of Tori's music starts backsliding there have been a lot conflicting opinions stated about her last three albums. As a later fan of Tori, these are the three albums whose release dates I was around for, and as such I got to form an impression of them without any other information and baggage to bring along to me. If you think about it, reviewing from the standpoint of a fan is relatively worthless ... the information will have no impact on someone who has never heard the album before, or on someone who doesn't know much about the artist in question. I often fail this check, as with my increasingly negative reaction to Weezer albums and my unquestioning embrace of Madonna, but with Tori I sometimes manage to hold on to my objectivity. In light of this assumption of relatively objectivity on my part, I thought I would share the more immediate and contextual reactions I had to Tori's latter three albums. I would love to hear similar reactions from the rest of you interspersed with our more typical "I am truly truly a fan" commentary. the way home from buying it and knowing it would be one of my favorite cds of all time. Anyone can bitch about Tori adding electronics and "blips" to her music, but if you are paying close and unbiased attention the album is stunningly organic and totally arresting from the first listen. Tori adds range to either side of her arsenal with rockers like "iieee" and "She's Your Cocaine" while penning both schmaltzy and schticky ballads like "Northern Lad" and "Pandora's Aquarium," respectively. People trapped within the production values and expectations they had based on Pele seem sometimes annoyed by this disc, but the level of non-string-section detail on it is perhaps the deepest out of all of Tori's albums. Additionally, the majority of the lyrics are not obscure to the point of eliminating their insightfulness ... a slight reversal of the mythology of Boys For Pele. Coming off of the highly successful Boys For Pele, which spawned two hit singles and a Grammy nomination, I would wager that Tori found herself with total free run of her production timetable and choice of single. If I recall correctly, her announcement that a new album was due came relatively out of nowhere as "Siren" appeared on the GE soundtrack. Furthermore, Tori seemed to have amazing free reign with the choice of singles on this disc. She lead with Spark rather than either of her more radio-friendly follow-up singles. Spark is unarguably one of the emotional centerpoints of her album even though it is one of the most unfriendly tracks: obscure lyrics, classic Tori pronunciation, totally weird time signatures, and dense arrangement. Predictably, it didn't get especially popular, which definitely detracted from the release of "Jackie's Strength" and "Raspberry Swirl," either of which might have cleaned house with the attention normally given to a lead single. To Venus and Back - My major complaint with TVAB has always been twofold. First, the lyrics had become obscure almost to the point of meaninglessness. Second, though the integration of the band is excellent, the overall sound is THIN. Both of these results had to be partly due to the comparatively short amount of time Tori spent recording and mastering this album ... literally out of nowhere, sans strings, with only three band members, and touring for two months that she seems to typically spend mastering. I absolutely despised this record when I first heard it, and even after pounding all of the songs into my brain through endless repeats I am still noncommittal about half the album. Forgetting what I did or didn't *expect* from Tori, the number of true masterpieces on this disc pales before her typical percentage; probably the only track that excited me on the first listen was "Concertina." Aside from a few shining moments the disc sounds alternately claustrophobic and soporific -- in fact, I used to go to sleep to it every night. If you want to disagree, first do me a favor: sit down with a nice set of headphones and compare. "Glory of the 80's" & "Riot Poof "sound like they're being performed to taped backing tracks compared to "Raspberry Swirl" and "Iieee." None of the non-ballads on the album comes close to being as dense as "She's Your Cocaine" or as deep as "Liquid Diamonds" save for the largely electric "Jaurez." By contrast, more organic piano-centered tracks like "Spring Haze" and "1,000 Oceans" sound warm and inviting (I would venture to say "More analog," but I'm not schooled enough in Audio to really be throwing that around). Though the resulting sound may have been Tori's exact intention, it was different enough from past ventures and weak enough on its own to lack the critical and popular punch of her last two discs. Totally forgetting about song quality, the electronics on this album just weren't produced to the tee the way they were on Choirgirl. And, remember song quality, it was less than thrilling after coming off of the emotional highs and lows of her last two discs. Coming off a largely sold-out half-year long tour and two Grammy nominations, Atlantic was happily expecting just a live album or beeside compilation.. Totally ignoring the (absolutely terrible) live portion of this disc (feel free to argue, I know you're wrong :) , Tori had free reign on this project, and I think it just didn't come together the way most of her albums do. Strange Little Girls - Though TVAB sold well, its tour was comparatively short and it didn't generate any singles of note. Furthermore, Tori's contract at Atlantic was up after one more album. In response to this, I feel as though Tori hedged all of her bets with SLG and Atlantic dropped the ball. Let me elaborate. The lead single "Strange Little Girl "is absolutely geared towards radio, so much so that it is almost unTori in nature. It's lyrics are straightforward, it's arrangement is catchy but simple, and it rocks. Tori has, to my knowledge, rarely (if ever) played it live, and it is atypical of the sort of covers she has favored in the past. This was a chance for Atlantic to break a Tori single as big as "Caught A Lite Sneeze," and they didn't do very much of anything. Tori also handed them controversy ('97 Bonnie and Clyde), fair game for AC radio (Time), recognizable favorites (Enjoy The Silence), a song that surely could have made it on alternative rock radio (Heart Of Gold), and even a freaking collectible cover! Despite all of this, the album seems to have sold mostly to fans, it barely generated one single, and its tour was effectively a greatest hits outing (rather than a supporting tour). Amazingly, this album itself sounds absolutely excellent (despite some of the material Tori tapped for it). The production is wonderfully diverse and attentive with almost no exceptions, especially the warm sounding wurlys and pianos. It features a few experimental tracks, but is routed in several very solid pillars, including "Rattlesnakes," which could be lyrically appended to FTCH seamlessly. The opening and closing tracks have an excellent resonance to their sound, and there are some spectacular vocals scattered throughout the album. The songs themselves tend to be hit or miss, largely due to their lyrical and musical style hopping, and the lack of original material had the (fairly obvious) result of alienating quite a few big fans (I know a slew of big EWF who never even bothered to buy this disc). ::whew:: Looking at the big picture, I would venture a guess that Tori had already decided that she was on her way out of Atlantic after Choirgirl ... she had the opportunity to contractually entangle old and new beesides with Atlantic during TVAB, but instead handed them a scant 11 new tracks overtracked by only *1* song (Zero Point). That meant no beesides. Yes, 0. Then, she did a covers record - still no new songs, still no beesides, although she was known to be sitting on at least half an album of Atlantic material (Fair Motomaids of Japan, Snow Cherries, Another Dead Fag, & Zero Point, all of which have been spoken very highly of, plus god knows how many other songs that escaped the last few albums in one way or another). I don't know quite what to expect from the new record; in fact, I don't think ANY of us do. As its release draws closer I would caution you all to think about the context that it is being released within ... you can't entirely rely on any of Tori's "evolution" past Choirgirl because no one can honestly say how much Tori's contractual situation was affecting the quality and quantity of the songs she produced. Furthermore, if we've learned *anything* from past pre-release jitters its that her songs rarely make as much sense out of the context of her albums as they do within them. And, finally, Epic hasn't entirely showed their hand on how they'll promote this album, but early efforts seem to indicate that they are determined to get Tori noticed this time around. My, that was long. Anyway, my (incredibly obscure, at this stage) point is that I LOVE all three of the albums that I just mentioned, but in an immediate and reactionary fashion I can only speak unequivocally highly of one of them. If you are apt to react quickly or harshly to fans who view one of these discs differently than you do yourself, ease to take a minute to remember how incredibly entangled you are with this music before assuming your viewpoint is entirely infallible. If you do it I promise I will too. I look forward to your replies, both on and off the list. Cheers! - -peter http://crushingkrisis.com ps: Correct me if I'm wrong, but a Oct.29th release date renders Scarlet's Walk ineligible for 2003 Grammies, as the cutoff is typically September 30th. Though this forsakes the easy nod in Alternative, it allows Epic and entire year to market this disc before it becomes eligible for serious awards. Think about that. pss: A question for Richard or anyone else fairly knowledgeably about such things: What is the status of songs that Tori wrote and recorded for Atlantic but never released? I seem to recall Jackie's Strength originally having two extra tracks assigned to it, which would imply they had been already recorded ... does she still have the rights to release these songs? ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V7 #188 *************************************