From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V7 #155 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Monday, July 15 2002 Volume 07 : Number 155 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: come undone [Nadyne Mielke ] Re: She's Come Undone [Jennifer Mitts Cypres ] Re: come undone ["mr zebra" ] Re: She's Come Undone [ckerley ] Re: come undone [mysterilady2001@cs.com] RE: BIG re:Fairytale ["Matthew DeWaal" ] Re: She's Come Undone [Jennifer Mitts Cypres ] more metaphors than Mr Metaphor who's just graduated in Metaphors from Metaphor University ["Pete Lambert" Subject: Re: come undone At 00:18 13-07-02 -0700, Beth Winegarner wrote: >I appreciate everyone telling me there are multiple interpretations of the >phrase "come undone." But what I asked was whether someone could >give a synopsis of the book. :) I can't, but the fine folks at Amazon can: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0671021001 /nm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 20:15:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Jennifer Mitts Cypres Subject: Re: She's Come Undone Mariana Furtado wrote: >>>>>>>I don't see any connection with Wally Lamb's book, which by the way I found to be well written but extremely draining and annoying. I found the girl completely impossible to sympathize with except on an intellectual level.>>>>> Ah! I somehow knew this book might be popular with Tori fans. I don't doubt Tori read it, even if it's not the book she's referring to in the song. I read that book in 4 days (big accomplishment as this book is as thick as the Bible) while on vacation and could not put it down. Yes, it was draining, but totally absorbing at the same time, and it was a journey I was willing to take with this character. I was addicted to the story. One of the most well-written characters I've read in a long time (I'm an English teacher). So then I go and get Lamb's second book about the twins. Ugh. Don't bother. If you thought the first one was annoying, this one is over-the-top annoying. It was just as thick, too, so I kept thinking, it's got to get good sometime, but it didn't. By the middle, I had had so much time invested reading the book that I had to finish, but... big waste of time. Only book I've ever given away (I'm a book hoarde). BTW, if anybody can point me to a RealPlayer site to download the new song, I'd appreciate it. I picked up this conversation in the middle. Toodles, jen ===== Check out my website! http://angelfire.com/ab7/jcypres ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 12:25:51 -0500 From: "mr zebra" Subject: Re: come undone Personally, I think Tori has a secret Duran Duran fetish. matthew. thinks you're all looking waaaay too deep. time will do the talking and years will do the walking. I'll just find a comfy spot and wait it out. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 09:24:35 -0500 From: ckerley Subject: Re: She's Come Undone another literary reference to "come undone" is from _villette_ - a 19th century novel by charlotte bronte. like many 19th century novels, _villette_ deals with women and madness. at one point in the novel, one of the men says "she's come undone" when talking about the main character, lucy snowe. whether or not this has any connection to tori and/or the song, i don't know. namaste catherine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:04:21 -0400 From: mysterilady2001@cs.com Subject: Re: come undone Hi Beth & EWF ~ Like most books currently in print, a comprehensive synopsis can easily be researched & found on Amazon.com or Barnesandnoble.com. With 30 minutes to kill I did a bit of research myself. Come undone: (Idiom) lose self-control, disorganized, at loose ends, fall to pieces. Wayne Magnuson: English Idioms; http://home.t-online.de/home/toni.goeller/idiom_wm/idioms134.html The phrase, or rather idiom, has been in existance for eons. Long before the source of seemingly focus; "She's Come Undone" Wally Lamb's 1992 book made infamous as Oprah's Book Club January 1997 selection. Also used in The Guess Who's 60's song "Undone" (Lyrics & Midi on the following page for anyone who doesn't recall the tune: http://users.cis.net/sammy/undone.htm) Duran-Duran also used the phrase/idiom on their song "Come Undone" off of their 1993 recording The Wedding Album. Some might remember, the song had a slick video of the DD guys at an aquarium and some chick in chains singing the chorus underwater. (Lyrics only at: http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~harel/cgi/page/htmlit?Come_Undone.html) It's much older than any of the previous though, much, much older. It's been in my head that the phrase/idiom is used in the 1905 novel The House Of Mirth by Edith Wharton but I'm not going to read the entire book again just to find it. It's an old idiom. It's a common idiom. It's an easily understood idiom that creates a certain mood easily. Was it put in the song so people would read more into it? It's possible but I don't think so. While it's true that the Wally Lamb book is about a young girl who was raped, I think that it goes overboard to link two words from a song to RAINN issues JUST because T wrote the song. Think about this - would people be so inclined to find such links if it were another singer/songwriter? I'm not saying this to Beth or anyone in particular. Clearly Beth's question doesn't lean in this direction. I've just noticed that sometimes people pigeonhole Tori. Again, no one in particular - just people in general. Not Undone Toodles ~ MysT *** > >Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 00:18:04 -0700 >From: Beth Winegarner >Subject: Re: come undone > >I appreciate everyone telling me there are multiple interpretations of the >phrase "come undone." But what I asked was whether someone could >give a synopsis of the book. :) > >Beth ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:12:41 -0400 From: "Matthew DeWaal" Subject: RE: BIG re:Fairytale When I first heard it I kept thinking about mainstream radio and couldn't help but slap an adult alternative label onto this single. Adult alternative. 39. Sorta go hand in hand. It's growing on me though.. and I agree with others when they say it sounds heavily produced. But, I can't speak for the rest of the tracks.. I'm eager to see where she's heading. matthew.dewaal :: matt@nothing.ca - - nothing.online ------------------------- > i agree.. was trying to tell jared yesterday while getting > the mp3 to him, that it was reminding me a LOT of a few of > the songs out on the radio right now.. and those few songs > are michelle branch's all you wanted, and vanessa carlton's > 1000 miles, and one other one that is escaping my memory > right now.so as far as radio marketing and accessiblity to > the masses... if the current trend of female music stays this > way till august.. i think ASF will do quite well.. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 12:38:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Jennifer Mitts Cypres Subject: Re: She's Come Undone Beth said: > I appreciate everyone telling me there are multiple > interpretations of the > phrase "come undone." But what I asked was whether > someone could > give a synopsis of the book. :) Okay. It's about a very, very fat young woman's struggle with her weight. That's it in a sentence. But it's so much more than that. I mean, this character is just so... all-consuming. I can't believe, first of all, that a man wrote this book. Second of all, I had no idea how the extremely obese thought about things, but it makes perfect sense when you read it. And she goes through a lot of crises that most of us couldn't handle being regular people. And she is so intelligent. And it's not a book that's just about weight. It's so deep, yet highly entertaining. It's addictive. It is a must-read, even if you don't care about fat people. Ultimately, it's not about being fat. It's about having no control, and at the same time, having complete control. - -jen ===== Check out my website! http://angelfire.com/ab7/jcypres ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 22:06:54 +0100 From: "Pete Lambert" Subject: more metaphors than Mr Metaphor who's just graduated in Metaphors from Metaphor University > but, in terms of the absence of metaphor, maybe what's missing is > the *small* metaphors, OK time for some praise-singing here - people want a song with metaphors? "Let's go..." ON MY WAY UP NORTH - the cold place, the last place on earth, in USA the victorious side of the civil war, in the UK the part of the country that suffered most from industrial recessions UPON A VENTURE - exposing to risk or loss; enterprise; leap in the dark I PUT BACK THE HOOD - Red (Scarlet) Riding Hood; Robin Hood; thing worn by birds of prey in captivity; executioner's mask; the flagship of the British Navy sunk in the darkest days of WW2; in the UK the bit that folds back on a convertible; in the USA the cover of a car's engine; a suffix (child-hood, parent-hood); abbreviation for (especially a deprived) Neighbourhood... OK I'm cheating totally now thanks to www.brittannica.com but you get the idea :-) And I'd bore you to tears if I started on "til my honey spread it took til then for me to break your bread, for me to take you - would I be stealing?". Suffice to say that anyone who mentions Savage Garden is going to have to take the matter outside with me to be resolved with serious hand-bag flinging and teddy bear throwing. And yay for not being Faery! I mean, i love that stuff, but we're in lethal Angela Carter territory here: hot sticky myths invented by peoples with lascivious points to make, and if you ask me the Faeries have been getting kinda too close to those panpipe cover versions of Love Is All Around lately. Though you may call me a cynic for that :-) And no one, no one, could use a phrase like "I took my day" except Tori. So it short I reckon this is both the most Tori-ish thing I've ever heard and the most exciting development in her style since... well, since the last one. And if her new guitarist does only seem able to play 3 notes, maybe she's got him on piece-work and they're saving up for a whole chord later in the album? ;-) And we aren't going to TELL Tori that we've sneaked a look in the wardrobe to see what presents we're getting before christmas, are we? Everyone remember to wrap them up again and put them back right where we found them.... Pete xxxx ~~~~ I felt centuries of a life together. I felt like an eternal soul when we touched. And I thought, Oh shit. ~~~ sophie b hawkins ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 22:41:39 +0100 From: "Pete Lambert" Subject: RE: A Sorta Fairytale...live >I don't know if anyone's thought of this yet, and I like the song the way it >is, but it would sound AWESOME live...with a band...yeah...Precious Things >style!!! > >Tony Yes, it's almost like she's downplaying the vocals to keep it cool and not to scare the punters at first, but like the live versions of Rattlesnakes I bet this one is going to get really blasted at us once we've egged her on a bit ("and I roooode along siiide...") And people keep saying the song is really sweet, which seems strange to me - am I the only one hearing it as a real gutwrenching break-up/can-we-get-back song? ("I flowed along side you / til you lost me there" and, if I'm hearing it right, "to break your bread, would I be stealing?") Just my ears there... Pete xx ~~~~ I felt centuries of a life together. I felt like an eternal soul when we touched. And I thought, 'Oh shit.' ~~~ sophie b hawkins ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V7 #155 *************************************