From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V7 #55 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Monday, March 11 2002 Volume 07 : Number 055 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: precious-things-digest V7 #54 [JNe9027355@aol.com] Thoughts on artists promoting themselves. [JNe9027355@aol.com] Re: precious-things-digest V7 #54 [JNe9027355@aol.com] Re: precious-things-digest V7 #54 [JNe9027355@aol.com] Re: precious-things-digest V7 #54 [JNe9027355@aol.com] Re: Tori marketing ["Karen Hester" ] Re: precious-things-digest V7 #54 [acopperbeechDryad ] Tori's ginger recipe [echoes@atlantic.devin.com] Re: precious-things-digest V7 #54 [Richard Handal ] Re: Thoughts on artists promoting themselves. [Richard Handal ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:32:13 EST From: JNe9027355@aol.com Subject: Re: precious-things-digest V7 #54 In a message dated 3/9/02 10:22:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org writes: > Subject: toriamos.com updated! > > Tori Amos.com has recieved a facelift! It's very subtle and welldone! > Shades of blue and dark red. So far there is only a "news" and "message > board" link, there are two pictures that fade in and out on the left side.. > with one being shared with a bird(?) diagram like what you would see in a > biology textbook.. the opening sequence was full of beautiful "forest" with > what looked to be a "lyric" overlay but the writing is so faint and goes by > so quick.. you cannot see what it is.. or at least I can't*L* Perhaps these > are some insights to what she may be bringing us in the fall? Anyhoos! It's > worth the checking out.. by far it's my favourite layout they've done so > far! > now that looks decent! simple, subdued yet stylish, and user friendly. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:51:31 EST From: JNe9027355@aol.com Subject: Thoughts on artists promoting themselves. In a message dated 3/9/02 9:35:07 PM Pacific Standard Time, handal@min.net writes: > Well, not really. Innovation exists. Creativity exists. You believe EVERY > musician should go on TRL to promote their new record? Nuh-huh. > no, i never said or even alluded to that. TRL isn't even widely watched by the older audiences anyway. the main age group tuning in is under 25 --and there are plenty over that age group that consume music. i don't see why they'd want to promote in such ways anyway. Honestly, do these artists think anyone wants to watch them? Why should they care about you? What are you doing for them? they need to wake up --the world just isn't here to revolve around making you a career. Your job is not even a real job for one. You are first and foremost an ENTERTAINER. Anyone who makes a living out of giving an audience a show, be it in poetry, in acting, in photography, in what have u, that is a form of entertainment. It is not a necessity, it is a luxury to be had, so don't think you're doing anyone a huge favor by doing what you're doing --people truly don't need u or your show business. So, by pr omoting yourself, you are essentially making yourself desperate for attention, and trying to be necessitated. Don't forget how that is going to look amongst the thinking sect of the population. if people are interested, they will come to u. thinking people are working people, they discover things that interest them. the ones who need to be spoon-fed the interest in order to acquire it are obviously too stupid to figure out anything for themselves, so why would anyone want an audience like that? an audience full of sissy drones? And if you do want an audience like that, well i for one then know what you're about, and i think it's stupid and rotten. - -AJ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:32:48 EST From: JNe9027355@aol.com Subject: Re: precious-things-digest V7 #54 In a message dated 3/9/02 10:22:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org writes: > ! > > and all flash. ugh. looks like they are going to abandon the html version > of the site -- all that's left of it is the news page which doesn't have > the march 8th update. > > woj > u hate flash too?! i can't stand it! why the hell is it so popular. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:39:23 EST From: JNe9027355@aol.com Subject: Re: precious-things-digest V7 #54 In a message dated 3/9/02 10:22:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org writes: > . > > As for the "O Brother" phenomenon, I was just talking about this with > someone the other day. I think the success of "O Brother" with almost zero > airplay speaks specifically to the state of "country" radio formats (which > are doctrinaire to an even larger extent than rock stations), combined > with the exposure the music had in a big film starring a major actor of > the day. Hey--you get Tori to do an entire soundtrack for a big Julia > Roberts film and I'd bet you it would sell a lot of records, too. So, > yeah; I don't think there's much that's usefully transferable from the "O > Brother" scenario. It seems the classic case of the exception that proves > the rule. she did do a soundtrack for a big Paltrow/Hawke film -G.Expectations. So what was the deal w/that??? any big sales??? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:29:29 EST From: JNe9027355@aol.com Subject: Re: precious-things-digest V7 #54 In a message dated 3/9/02 10:22:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org writes: > I used to work in a Wherehouse store and every time I played a used copy of > one of Tori's CDs on our stereo system, I would hardly get through half the > CD before someone would buy it. Every time I played her, this happened. And > I played her because I knew people would like her. (This would even happen > with Boys for Pele, which is, to my ears, her least enjoyable album on > first > listen, in terms of pure musicality). ironically, that's the opposite case here. an acquaintance works at the wherehouse in seattle, wa, and he said during the play of SLG, people immediately started complaining about it. AJ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:13:16 +1300 From: "Karen Hester" Subject: Re: Tori marketing Kia Ora, Richard Handel wrote: >What, that's innovative and specifically attuned to Tori Amos's music and persona, can be done to get >her on the radio much more than it has been in the past (a situation with which she has been clearly frustrated >for a long time)? It must be so hard to market someone with such striking 'music and persona' - she appeals to splintered groups, with no central media/radio format/tv shows/magazines to target. Tori's music is for sub-groups of goths and tormented teenage girls and pianists and geeks and plenty of us who don't listen to any radio or belong to any recognisable subculture other than that of the 'music lover'. Maybe there are cult tv shows that'd suit, but they go to lesser knowns and she mightn't want to play that game. In a way Tori is too big as well as too small - she hasn't been willing to be a support artist, even though that'd widen her audience. It could be a demeaning experience, and raising awareness of her music isn't the only reason to do things, so fair enough. She has avoided touring with similar artists most of her career, and other than Alanis, she toured with so few female musicians compared to people like Sarah McLachlan, and many of Tori's potential listeners do fall into the category of enjoying many female-singer-songwriters :) The Professional Widow remix was her biggest seller in England (and elsewhere?). Guess she could write lots of scandalous lines and hope they get sampled, or lend vocals to others. This wouldn't be compromise her music as much as trying to write hits, but would bore me. I don't think melodically and arrangement-wise Tori is hard to get for first-time listeners. There are many immediate melodies in the ballads, heart-wrenching first listen and easy to hum along to. Plus she has mastered the quiet-chorus-crunchy-guitar-verse pop song. I think it is the lyrics and their increasing obscurity that keeps her out of mainstream radio. 1000 Oceans seemed pretty understandable, and I'm sure could've move d a more mainstream audience than me if it was joined to a death in a movie or something similarly marketing weasel-ish, but often her metaphors are far too dense for someone without experience of Tori's lyrical world to understand or bother trying to decipher. Little Earthquakes and its lyrical (and musical) simplicity still converts the most people that I know. Instead of radio remixes of instrumentation, she could 'remix' the lyrics! I don't really mean that as a serious suggestion. But ultimately, haven't many of Tori's albums reached about the maximum number of listeners that you think will love them? Does she think she should be bigger? A solid fanbase but decreasing general sales is a common enough pattern. Tori was the new Kate, and then a new artist in herself, so she got lots of media coverage, but now with each album she's just herself again & again, rather than freshly, and aside from people too young ten years ago to read about her and hear her, how many people will newly discover her? Tori doesn't combat her kooky image, she often seems to cultivate it when on 'mainstream' shows like Leno, so can we expect people who dismiss her to bother finding out themselves? Even as she moves towards more standard rock arrangements, to me she seems to often wilfully produce obscure lyrics, sometimes without any resonance (beyond herself or deep fans) as metaphor. Hmm. She's unique and that makes her difficult and gorgeous. Karen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:37:30 -0500 From: acopperbeechDryad Subject: Re: precious-things-digest V7 #54 > someone wrote: > > > > > As for the "O Brother" phenomenon, I was just talking about this with > > someone the other day. I think the success of "O Brother" with almost zero > > airplay speaks specifically to the state of "country" radio formats (which > > are doctrinaire to an even larger extent than rock stations), combined > > with the exposure the music had in a big film starring a major actor of > > the day. but that's only part of it. initially before "O brother" was mass marketed, and it was in small houses, the soundtrack was being marketed as bluegrass, which it isn't, and got that whole genre in an uproar. HOWEVER, becasue it had that appeal, it bridged the usually non-connected generes of country music, bluegrass, folk, and what used to be known as "gospel". there's no doubt that the major personas of the film when it was later re-released to national theaters had impact on the widespread play of mostly unfavorably music to the mainstream. but i think the ability of it to connect the aforementioned generes already had given it that boost long before it hit national theatres, which to me still implies there can be treasure in the trash. be well. - -- ~ kelley the dryad's leafpile http://www.theleafpile.net ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ The Saferoom Project http://www.saferoom.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:40:24 EST From: Dracovixen@aol.com Subject: Re: promoting Tori Would you believe that the cover/concept album actually grabbed new listeners? My new boyfriend shocked me when I went through his CD collection, and the only Tori cd he had was Strange Little Girls. He's into old classic music, and underground type stuff. He likes people covering the Beatles. Tori Amos is an odd addition to his collection, but he got the album for the covers, and likes it. Not every song, but he likes several. So, I immediately said to him that he needs to hear her other covers, her many many other covers, and even listen to her original stuff because IMHO she's a genius. So, now I am giving him a copy of Under the Covers, and I am going to give him a copy of Little Earthquakes, and let him go from there, though he may enjoy From the Choirgirl Hotel as well. My ex-boyfriend, in the meantime, has all her CDs except the SLG one. He doesn't like it, though he's a big fan of her music. It's funny how different things touch different people. BECAUSE of SLG, I may be able to create yet another EWF. So, with as little airplay Tori might get, and as little promotion as it may seem to us (though, I saw her SLG video quite often on the College Network, and posters of her up in every FYE promoting the album, and heard it on the radio, and found it in heavy rotation at the radio station I work at...), her music does the work for her. You just have to find the right stuff for every person, and as she continues to grow and explore what are new sounds to her, she will reach more fans, even if it may be at the expense of turning some old ones off to the new stuff. Black Dove ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:45:17 EST From: Yessaid@aol.com Subject: Re: Tori marketing In a message dated 3/10/2002 10:17:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, hester@paradise.net.nz writes: << 1000 Oceans seemed pretty understandable, and I'm sure could've move d a more mainstream audience than me if it was joined to a death in a movie >> 1000 Oceans was used in the film _Here On Earth_ which starred Chris Klein and Josh Hartnett, I believe. The song was played after one of the main characters (the girl both boys loved) died. It was very fitting, I guess, and seems like it would have reached some sort of mainstream audience. jason www.yessaid.com t o r i p h o r i a ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:08:35 -0800 From: myth@31flavours.com Subject: Re: Thoughts on artists promoting themselves. On 10 Mar 2002 at 0:51, JNe9027355@aol.com wrote: > Anyone who makes a living > out of giving an audience a show, be it in poetry, in acting, in photography, > in what have u, that is a form of entertainment. It is not a necessity, it is > a luxury to be had, so don't think you're doing anyone a huge favor by doing > what you're doing --people truly don't need u or your show business. I read a toriquote once that said something to the effect that now is a great time to be an entertainer, but if you were a poet you had better be good at washing dishes. Art exists to entertain, to enlighten, to expose and provoke, to identify with or be unsettled by. Tori was pointing up the difference between entertainment soley made for commercial aims, and art for personal satisfaction. Not all artists do what they do to make money and be famous....many are perfectly content to be able to support themselves doing what they love, and don't care for riches or notoriety. It's a hard thing to achieve in our society, where people think as you do...that art is not necessary for day to day living....and are unwilling to be involved or support it in any way....to the extent that people will no longer spend $15 on a cd and support the artist, but instead think they are entitled to it for free. Many artists will never be able to support themselves doing what they love, but they will never stop doing it, because it is what they are, whether they have an audience or not. Personally I can't think of what else life is for other than the chance of personal expression, and to try to be alive through my senses. If I did not have music as part of that the world would be a dark place indeed. It is very much a necessity in my life, as are all other forms of art, both those created by other people, and those I create myself. I am striving to find a place for myself in the world where I can do something I'm passionate about. I realize I may not make very much money at it, but my definition of success is measured by being able to do something I love, not by the balance in my checkbook or how many people recognize me on the street. To me that is as necessary as the air I breathe. To say forms of personal expression are not the very essence of life....think about that for a minute.... Do you decorate your home? Hang a picture maybe, or buy a blanket with a pattern you like? Chose clothing you look and feel good in? Wear makeup, jewelry, get tattoos? Style your hair, and otherwise care about your appearance? Do you enjoy going to a restaurant and having a delicious meal? Did you pick out a car you liked, and later maybe even put a bumper sticker on it? Do you have opinions, and like to discuss or even argue them? All of these are ways you express yourself, and they are also made possible by the expression of others...the fine meal prepared by a creative chef, the car designed by a visionary engineer, the clothing designer with a flair for colour and line. The favour works both ways. Would you rather wear the same grey uniform every day, eat nutrient paste out of a tube, and live in a plain white box? Just how necessary are all the things that make you YOU? If Tori plays piano in a forest and no one is there to hear, does she still play? I believe she would. Some would choose not. There is the difference between an artist and an entertainer. ~julie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:11:46 +0000 From: "Jennifer Teapot" Subject: Killing Off The Single This certainly explains the mystery behind Strange Little Girl: Whatever happened to the single? Unpopular with record companies, unknown by many record buyers NEW YORK (AP) -- The first time you entered a music store, chances are it was because there was one song you had to have. Maybe it was "I Want to Hold Your Hand" by the Beatles, or Marvin Gaye's "I Heard it Through the Grapevine." Perhaps you obsessed over "Night Fever" by the Bee Gees, "Hungry Like the Wolf" by Duran Duran or 'N Sync's "Bye Bye Bye." These days, finding that song -- without buying many more you don't want - -- is becoming increasingly difficult. The music industry is killing off the single. Once the backbone of the business, singles sales totaled 31 million last year, down a whopping 41 percent from 2000, according to Soundscan. It's believed to be the lowest sales figure since the late 1940s, when singles were introduced on vinyl. Singles aren't even made for many of the most popular songs because music companies think they're so unprofitable. Among Billboard magazine's 40 most popular songs the week of February 23, only five were available as singles on compact disc. Eighteen were on sale just as vinyl records. Seventeen songs, including Creed's "My Sacrifice," No Doubt's "Hey Baby," Enrique Iglesias' "Hero" and Alanis Morissette's "Hands Clean," were only available if you bought a full album. Record retailers complain this alienates fans, particularly young ones, by forcing them to spend more than they want or -- worse yet -- retrieve songs online. "I think they're losing a whole generation of record buyers," said Carl Rosenbaum, chief executive of Top Hits, a Buffalo Grove, Illinois, company that supplies music to 15,000 stores nationwide. "You either have to steal it off the Internet or you just don't buy it at all," he said. "The other option is to buy a full CD for $18. If you're just introducing yourself to an act, you don't want to do that. It's hard to figure out what their thinking is." Music executives, in turn, blame retailers for discounting singles so heavily it's impossible to make money. "We can't work it out," said Val Azzoli, co-chairman of the Atlantic Group of record labels. "We're not an industry that works together." ** Debate about influence If the single dies altogether, the beginning of the end can be traced a decade back to the start of Soundscan, which provided the first precise measurements of music sales. Executives who long suspected that singles cut into sales of the more profitable full-length CDs now had evidence to back that up, said Jordan Katz, senior vice president of sales at Arista Records. There's some debate about the extent to which that's true, though. Bob Higgins, chief executive of the Albany, New York-based Trans World Entertainment, which owns 950 music stores, said he believes singles hurt album sales in only about 15 percent of the cases. Nickelback's "Silver Side Up" album is currently in the top 10, seemingly unhurt by the CD single for the song "How You Remind Me." And Santana sold boatloads of its most recent album despite a succession of singles, he said. In the late 1990s, there was a brief period when record companies put singles by singers like Mariah Carey on sale for a money-losing 49 cents, artificially boosting sales to secure flashy chart debuts. To avoid manipulations of its charts, Billboard changed the way it computed the Top 40 to reflect radio airplay as well as sales. Therefore, it was possible to have a hit "single" without a song ever being released as a single. CD singles, which usually have two or three songs, generally retail for between $3 and $4. Many retailers routinely discount them by 50 percent or more, Azzoli said. And there are still music companies that encourage this by secretly giving singles away to retailers to inflate sales, he said. "If I could get $5 a single and sell a million of them, hey, there's a business there," Azzoli said. ** Vinyl nostalgia The demise of the single means more of music's romance is disappearing, just like when colorful album covers were replaced by tiny CD booklets. In a song being released this spring, Elvis Costello waxes nostalgic about collecting stacks of 45s (a phrase already consigned to history, since it refers to the number of revolutions a 7-inch disc made each minute on a turntable). "Nine-year-old puts his money down," he sings. "Every scratch, every click, every heartbeat. Every breath that I held for you." Music companies recognize the danger, but "their short-term motivation is to get as much profit as possible," said Ed Christman, retail editor at Billboard. "The fact that young kids aren't buying records is a long-term worry." It's not easy to find the section where singles are sold at the Virgin megastore in New York's Times Square. Walk past the display of top albums, go down the escalator and wander to the dance section in a back corner. It's close to where Jeannie Imperati of North Haven, Connecticut, was grumbling one recent day when she took her 15-year-old son shopping. "I'll spend $100 on CDs just so he can get one song out of each of them," she said. Her friend, John Cas, said he found the lack of choices in the singles section frustrating. "Most of the CDs have only one good song out of a dozen," he said. "At 18 or 20 bucks a pop, you want to be able to enjoy the whole CD." The space that music stores used to devote to singles is dwindling, or disappearing altogether. One worry for Rosenbaum's Top Hits is that the chains he supplies with music, like Eckerd Drugs, may simply use the space for non-music products. Now he's distributing golf balls as well as music. At Arista, Katz is sensitive to concerns on both sides and is among executives experimenting with ways to make more singles available, though maybe not in the way many consumers would want. In some cases, singles are made available before an album's release but pulled from stores when the album comes out. Arista also makes singles for songs after they have cooled off as a hit. Pink's "Get the Party Started," currently in Billboard's Top 10, isn't a CD single now but may be in a couple of months. Labels are also experimenting more with so-called maxi-singles. They may contain five or six songs -- often different remixes of the same song -- and are sold for between $7 and $8. The cost of manufacturing them are similar to regular singles, so profits are higher. Some artists also release DVD singles with a video included with the music. "We have to get kids in the habit of buying music," Katz said. "I'm trying to figure out innovative ways to have singles and albums co-exist." - - - The Associated Press. *************** http://datura.notsweet.net ICQ: 131558324 I thought about my mum. 'You could seize power,' I said, 'in a bloodless coup. Go back to work. Take a lover. Bring Jeremy up short.' 'Not with two children under three,' she said resignedly. 'I think I've made my bed, I'll just have to lie in it now.' Oh God. As Tom never tires of telling me, in a sepulchral voice, laying his hand on my arm and staring into my eyes with an alarming look, 'Only Women Bleed.' [Bridget Jones's Diary] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:25:54 -0800 From: echoes@atlantic.devin.com Subject: Tori's ginger recipe This is off neilgaiman.com: Okay. Duncan is Tori's personal chef. This is the drink he makes for her, and is posted with his permission. He says to make sure it's not too hot when you drink it, and he adds that an ice-pack on the throat for about 20 minutes after coming off stage can reduce inflammation of the vocal chords. Half a teaspoon of slippery elm One dessertspoon of honey two teaspoons of lemon juice Add just a drop of water and cream this to a paste. Then add 6 thin slices of root ginger (or more, to taste) 3-4 thin slices of lemon cut into halves or quarters Add boiling water, stir, let it sit, and let it cool a bit before drinking. - -- "This country has a deep fear and mistrust of strong, smart, accomplished, outspoken women unless they are sexy 22-year-olds killing vampires on television." -- Dennis Miller _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._ music reviews + stories + poetry + photography + collage + Watchers selkies + froud-faeries + esoterica + links = http://echoes.devin.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:00:19 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Handal Subject: Re: precious-things-digest V7 #54 AJ said: > she did do a soundtrack for a big Paltrow/Hawke film -G.Expectations. > So what was the deal w/that??? > any big sales??? First off, Great Expectations was not a box office success. Second, what I said was if "you get Tori to do an entire soundtrack for a big Julia Roberts film . . . I'd bet you it would sell a lot of records, too." All Great Expectations was for Tori (aside from minor incidental music in the score), was one song she did to a click track--and none-too-thrilling an experience for her, either, I might add. Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:09:06 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Handal Subject: Re: Thoughts on artists promoting themselves. AJ said: > Anyone who makes a living out of giving an audience a show, be it in > poetry, in acting, in photography, in what have u, that is a form of > entertainment. It is not a necessity, it is a luxury to be had, so don't > think you're doing anyone a huge favor by doing what you're doing > --people truly don't need u or your show business. That seems to me an unusually harsh view which someone on this list would have of the arts. The arts feed the soul. I see nothing luxurious in that. People suffer all manner of depression and emptiness without the arts. Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. There is in souls a sympathy with sounds; And as the mind is pitch'd the ear is pleased With melting airs or martial, brisk or grave; Some chord in unison with what we hear Is touch'd within us, and the heart replies. How soft the music of those village bells Falling at intervals upon the ear In cadence sweet! --William Cowper (1731-1800) The Task. Book vi. Winter Walk at Noon. Line 1. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:24:34 -0800 From: "h." Subject: RE: precious-things-digest V7 #54 > All Great Expectations was for Tori (aside from minor incidental music in > the score), was one song she did to a click track--and none-too-thrilling > an experience for her, either, I might add. what's a click track? just curious :) btw, siren is one of my favorite tori songs of all time. i didn't know it was a bad experience for her. ??? i know she collaborated with the guy who did the score on it, but i assumed it was a good collaboration (because the song just rocks). redstamen ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V7 #55 ************************************