From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V6 #203 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Saturday, October 20 2001 Volume 06 : Number 203 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: washington post review [JNe9027355@aol.com] Re: concert reviews [JNe9027355@aol.com] Re: precious-things-digest V6 #201 [JNe9027355@aol.com] Re: precious-things-digest V6 #202 [Dracovixen@aol.com] [none] ["Beth KT" ] Tori and Rape ["Tony Fernandes" ] Re: concert reviews ["Sarah Bowman" ] Re: concert reviews ["Beth KT" ] Re: concert reviews [UnderH20thing@aol.com] Re: Tori and Rape [Shaman ] tori tv [strange little woj ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 01:12:23 EDT From: JNe9027355@aol.com Subject: Re: washington post review In a message dated 10/17/2001 10:22:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org writes: > even going back so far as to reclaim > a long-disavowed ditty from her stint fronting Y Kan't Tori Read. Well bless her for resurrecting it! that song is absolutely wonderful --truly underrated IMHO. > > While not radically revamped, the proffered versions of ``Icicle'' and > ``Crucify'' -- the latter of which took some white-knuckled melodic swerves > - -- both played up Amos' insistent restlessness. The same could be said of > her take on Lloyd Cole's ``Rattlesnakes,'' which rose in aching arcs quite > unlike the ones captured on ``Strange Little Girls.'' > > Amos has always been prone to capriciousness as a singer -- leaping > octaves, stretching notes oddly -- but this perf showed her to be palpably > more controlled, capable of coaxing subtly jazzy inflections from ``China'' > and ``Cooling'' and ratcheting up the energy level on ``Sweet Dreams.'' > > The most affecting number -- as is invariably the case when it's slipped > into the setlist -- was the autobiographical rape narrative ``Me and a > Gun.'' Amos' a capella near-whisper, virtually drained of emotion, made the > song difficult to listen to but impossible to ignore. > > An encore medley of ``Thank Heaven for Little Girls'' Who originally does this song, what are the lyrics ? and ``Over the > Rainbow'' (both performed with wistful charm and a total lack of irony) > proved Amos' tonal palette to be broader than one might imagine. Those few > points of wan light pierced the gloom beautifully, more than making up for > the lack of sunshine in Tori's cloudy day. Cloudy day? was he just saying this in the general critical sense or seriously--as in she was truly having a hard time? AJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 01:18:27 EDT From: JNe9027355@aol.com Subject: Re: concert reviews In a message dated 10/17/2001 10:22:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org writes: > From: "Aileen Sharkie" > Subject: concert reviews > > Has anyone else noticed that in EVERY review of a concert in which Tori sang > > Me and A Gun, it was described as "a song about her real life rape", or > something to that effect? It's starting to get on my nerves, considering > she WASN'T raped. Don't journalists have to check their facts before > writing up a story? :-P > just complainin' though > aileen HUH??? she WAS raped --didn;t you read about her pre-fame incident? she was molested in childhood as well. Im curious as to why you thought otherwise? One of the first factoids presented when i first took interest in amos was this rape bit. AJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 01:19:15 EDT From: JNe9027355@aol.com Subject: Re: precious-things-digest V6 #201 In a message dated 10/17/2001 10:22:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org writes: > -Neil Gaiman > > One of the top writers in modern comics, best-selling novelist, and > friend of Tori Amos, writes his interpretation of the characters from > Strange Little Girls. this guy is awesomely descriptive. How come all that extra commentary wasn;t provided in album? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:02:15 EDT From: Dracovixen@aol.com Subject: Re: precious-things-digest V6 #202 Please check your dictionary, or perhaps you have seen Richard's post. Also, if you have ever read up on Greek Mythology, you will see the word rape used often, such as when Hades carried off Persephone and she cried "A rape! A rape!" He hadn't actually penetrated her, was only carrying her off. I'm not saying that Tori wasn't forced into sexual intercourse, I was just pointing out that even if she wasn't, technically, she was still raped. There are many words in the English language that have been modified by society throughout the years (such as the word "virgin", but let's not get into that). It's probably something we should be aware of, especially with someone as word-focused as Tori. Black Dove <<< Subject: [none] If Tori said she was raped, she was raped. Why question her? The song Me And A Gun was written about 5 years after her rape. She had gone to the movies to see Thelma and Louise and during the rape scene (which, if you've seen the movie is similar to the song MAAG) she freaked out and the repressed memory of what happened to her came flooding back. She wrote the song that afternoon and sang it that night. The song is part Thelma and Louise and part what happened to Tori. If I can find the interview where she discussed this, I'll post again. I'm just sick at seeing so many people (especially women for god sake) question a woman about her rape. ~~peace~ beth ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:05:04 -0700 From: "Tony Fernandes" Subject: Tori and Rape I understood there would be a lot of people that misunderstood my post. I was not questioning, criticizing or making a statment about Tori's ordeal. I was not belittling anyone that's been through anything horrible. I'm a compassionate and empathic person who feels for anyone in pain. All I was doing was trying to clarify the word rape. I will still hold to my original post and since someone told me to check my dictionary, here goes: 1. "The crime of having sexual intercourse with a person forcibly and without consent." 2. "The plundering (of a city, etc.), as in warfare" 3. "An annual plant whose leaves are used for fodder." Taken from Webster's New World Dictionary, 1990. Draw your own conclusions. Tony ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 15:12:17 -0500 From: "Sarah Bowman" Subject: Re: concert reviews I have never heard anything about Tori being molested as a child. Be careful what you post! Don't spread disinformation. Thank Heaven for Little Girls is a song from the musical Gigi. freshlittlepuddles >HUH??? she WAS raped --didn;t you read about her pre-fame incident? she was >molested in childhood as well. Im curious as to why you thought otherwise? >One of the first factoids presented when i first took interest in amos was >this rape bit. >AJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:00:31 -0400 From: "Beth KT" Subject: Re: concert reviews Yes, Tori was molested by a family friend when she was young. Again, if I find the interview I'll post again. :) ~~peace~ beth From: "Sarah Bowman" To: JNe9027355@aol.com, precious-things@smoe.org Subject: Re: concert reviews Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 15:12:17 -0500 I have never heard anything about Tori being molested as a child. Be careful what you post! Don't spread disinformation. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:38:26 EDT From: UnderH20thing@aol.com Subject: Re: concert reviews In a message dated 10/19/2001 5:17:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, JNe9027355@aol.com writes: > she was > she was? did i miss something these past 8 years of being obsessed with her? ...till next time see you in the dreamtime... Glitter Girl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 18:38:28 -0700 From: Shaman Subject: Re: Tori and Rape Tony Fernandes wrote: > > Dracovixen@aol.com wrote: > > "Rape is also defined as someone who is taken against their will, not only as > forceful sexual intercourse." > > I'm not going to argue with anyone about the particulars of Tori's ordeal with > the crazed fan she gave a ride to after a concert. I've heard her say during > interviews that she was raped, and I assume she literally meant it. This, > taken with her involvement with RAINN would further my belief that she was > raped. > > If someone is taken against their will, it's called kidnapping or unlawful > imprisonment, NOT rape. Rape is unconsentual sexual penetration (with an > object or a body part). Is it any less traumatic for someone to be kidnapped > and tortured/abused than someone who is raped? Not necessarily. However, the > person who is kidnapped and forced to sing a song at knifepoint was not > raped...unless they were raped. I would even say that someone who is almost > raped, whether it was unsuccessfully attempted or the assailant purposely > sexually toremented the victum without penetrating them, has a right to say > they were raped...and it should be dealt with in the same way in all respects, > especially concerning the victim's emotional recovery. I really don't want > everyone trying to pick apart what I've said, I just wanted to define the word > "rape" and state my opinion on the matter. I hope this clarifies a few > things. Technically, Rape is very similar to kidnapping but it's more than just the capture and restraint that's involved. Kidnapping is about possession. Rape is about violence and control. The motives and operandi are different. You do NOT threaten to cut up a kidnapping victim just for the "fun" of it or if you do than it's also assault as well. There are also charges such as one called manslaughter and plenty of other charges that apply. To nickpick at whether or not the motives of the assaulter qualify as sexual is sick and pointless. This is not a fucking courtroom trial so the details of who exactly did what are not relevant. She was attacked and it was a traumatic experience and that's all that really matters! I think one should exhibit more compassion and less clinical analysis when it comes to the semi-public discussion of rape. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 23:38:20 -0400 From: strange little woj Subject: tori tv from toriamos.com: Tori will be appearing on "The Tonight show with Jay Leno" on 11/14, and "The Late Late show with Craig Kilborn" on 11/16. Tori will be performing Live on WGN Morning Show. "WGN Morning Show" WGN-TV(WB)/Chicago, IL Tuesday, October 23rd 6:00-8:00AM. woj ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V6 #203 *************************************