From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V6 #128 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Saturday, July 28 2001 Volume 06 : Number 128 Today's Subjects: ----------------- new fan ["immers nico" ] Re: Frank and matter of fact... [Amelia ] Criticism. [mikegray@btinternet.com] Re: dislike of tori music [Richard Handal ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 12:39:29 +0200 From: "immers nico" Subject: new fan hi all i'm new so i would just like to start with saying hi to everyone who loves tori amos. she really is the best. but i have a problem. most of the sites on the internet concerning het is outdated. i'm looking for an address or e-mail address so i can contact her 'cause she's not touring in south africa. the only address is care of spivak entertainment in beverly hills, but the site i got that from was last updated in 1998. so if anyone can maybe give me some help i would apreciate it. thanks nico ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 23:12:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Amelia Subject: Re: Frank and matter of fact... You ARE trying to pick a fight, but all I'll say is this: this is a discussion list. The purpose is to share opinions and thoughts about Tori and her music. If people don't like it, they have the right to say they don't and why they feel that way. If you do like it, you have the same right. Calling people S-T-U-P-I-D is inflamatory and insulting, not to mention immature. People who respect other's opinions don't call them "stupid" and toss in a pre-emptory "fuck you." If you play with matches, expect to get burned. Amelia - --- "Shaigirl ..." And while I believe in "to each their own" and I really do try to respect other people's opinions (even if they differ from mine)... I think a bunch of you are being just plain S-T-U-P-I-D. Yes, that's right... STUPID. (And no I'm not trying to pick a fight here, though I'm sure many of you are going to throw some fuel to the fire.) ..... Yup, that's just my two cents. And I'm sure many of you are going to flame me but fuck you, okay? Worship the music, not the musician! And that's really all I have to say about that! _____________________________________________________________ BUST Magazine: For Women with Something to Get Off Their Chests Subscribe at http://www.bust.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:37:56 +0100 (BST) From: mikegray@btinternet.com Subject: Criticism. Hi guys, Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents particularly following Shaigirl's somewhat provocative post this morning. Firstly, I think Atlantic were both correct and mistaken in the same breath in including Bonnie & Clyde on the 3-track sampler. I don't believe that it represents one of the high points of the album particularly, especially not for more traditional Tori fans, however Atlantic have included it doubtless because it will be a talking point and a focal point for the press to report on the record and the media - remembering of course that these promo copies will have been sent to the printed media and other outlets, not just radio. I think radio should have stuck to playing Strange Little Girls which is the intended track for radio, and indeed a bona fide radio hit in the making, if it gets the airplay it deserves. As fans, I feel we must tread a fine line between fandom and sycophancy, never crossing over to the other, simply congratulating Tori without listening critically. To truly appreciate any piece of art, music or otherwise, I do believe critical thought is required to some extent. I'm glad people are thinking critically about the album, about how things are being delivered, about what message is being sent. To me, that's better than just listening and accepting at face value. This is, surely, a forum for debate, and as such, people are bound to disagree over the content of tracks and even the choice of tracks. Why should we not be free to discuss this, whether we've heard the whole album or not? Discussion thus far has been based on what we've heard, nothing more. There has been conjecture, but again, I don't see what the problem with that is. People's opinions are going to chance when they hear the full album, I have no doubt about that, but in the meantime, I see no reason why they shouldn't express how they feel about what they've heard, or indeed why their opinions are any less valid simply because they disagree with those who would put all of Tori's work on a pedestal. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 14:59:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Handal Subject: Re: dislike of tori music Responding to a post by Karen Hester: New Zealand, huh? We'll likely never meet! I loved this post a whole lot. Really swell. I have a few questions and comments. > . . . 'Choirgirl Hotel' moved too far from the piano for some, and the > ballads seemed sentimental mockeries of earlier piano-based pieces . . . That's interesting to me, I never heard anyone mention that before. Are there specific songs you could name, Karen (or anyone else)? > . . . 'To venus and back' had a live album which paled next to many > people's favourite bootlegs, and a studio album that others saw as the > product of a rush. I'm still not sure how I feel about the live Venus disc, but until Venus came out I loved Pele the most of any of the albums, and now I have to say my feelings are tied between it and the Venus studio disc. It's starkly moving to me with lots of direct, heartfelt emotion, and there's an overall roundedness to the production which also adds to the sense of cohesiveness. I doubt most of those who say it was rushed would have said that if they hadn't been prejudiced by hearing the story of its recording. I find it goes down real easy but at the same time affects a journey as does Pele. I'm just glad it doesn't feel the need to drag one through the mud as much as Pele did. And I'm glad to think that none of the subsequent tours will be as much of an emotionally harrowing experience as was the Dew Drop Inn Tour. That was a hell of a tour but it got to be too much in the end. By and large, the tours are fun now more than scary. There was a LOT of "scary" on the DDI Tour--big clouds of death hanging over it, even. > Not liking a side of a favourite musician is completely valid, and for > me the struggle to hear something that other fans do but I don't is > fascinating. Definitely. > Coming to an understanding of 'Boys for Pele' whilst reading other > people's opinions of it was a wonderful experience. I was also struck > to learn how much '1000 Oceans' was liked by Tori's father and husband. > Such a boring song to me! I honestly can't fathom why some people feel this way. I find it an unusually direct song with naked emotion dripping from it so much it's shocking. Plus, knowing it was sparked by the death of Mark's dad brings home the poignance for me, big-time. I know some people who like to keep Tori a little private secret didn't like it because it was *too* accessible to the masses of non-Tori people, but that's insane to me. I can't understand why anyone else's reaction to a song should hold any sway as regards my own feelings of it. If I didn't want to like songs that were popular I'd be missing out on a lot of amazing music. Again, great post, Karen. Thanks for the opportunity for discussion. Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. N.P.: Xavier Cugat; Cuban Love Song 1939-1940 ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V6 #128 *************************************