From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V6 #125 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Wednesday, July 25 2001 Volume 06 : Number 125 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Re[2]: crappy songs [Prettynightshade@aol.com] Re: short replies [Nadyne Mielke ] Re: the female perspective thing... [violet@torithoughts.org] Re[3]: crappy songs [David Mobley ] thoughts ["Eric Souliere" ] Sooo.. Tori, how does that hot frying pan feel? [Mysterilady2001@cs.com] Tori Does Dallas.. sounds like a porno [ToriLiscious@cs.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:12:38 EDT From: Prettynightshade@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: crappy songs it was my thinking that in the song, she wasn't calling herself "daddy", but speaking in third person as parents often do to children... to me it was more the mommy talking to the daughter as if not to frighten her... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:50:07 -0700 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: short replies At 18:30 23-07-01 +1000, Jasmina wrote: [snip] > >(Think tori could be in the process of starting her own label?) >i thought she did have her own label, i saw something about it on the dent >yesterday when i was browsing the site, can't remember what its called but >according to the dent there is one artist signed to it You're thinking of Iglou Records. The band signed to that label is Pet. Iglou is just a vanity label. That is, it's not an independent label, it's just a part of Atlantic Records. Tori hasn't done anything with Iglou since Pet was signed and released their album, which was ... err, 1996? or so? I don't think that Tori would start her own truly independent label. She hasn't publicly expressed that much of an interest in that side of the music business. She's even been pretty unknowledgeable about her own releases on Atlantic/EastWest -- to the point that people have handed her official stuff to sign, and she's said that she'd never seen it before. But then, I'm just speculating. :) /nm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:55:53 -0700 From: violet@torithoughts.org Subject: Re: the female perspective thing... I was sitting down to write a post about this exact same thing when I saw this one. I agree completely (though I do think Tori meant what she said when talking about the female perspective). When people hear the term "female perspective," I think they're thinking in terms of Tori saying she'd be presenting the female *response to* or *commentary on* the men's versions. But I don't think that's what she's going to be doing at all. I think it will become apparent, particularly as we hear more of the songs, that she's simply trying to bring female *energy* to the songs -- performing them the way a WOMAN would perform them. I do believe that's performing them from a female perspective. Violet xoxox >i've been on this lust for a while and am usually one to just kinda lurk >about and listen to everyone's opinion, but i just thought i'd share my >feelings on this one. >personally, i think tori misspoke when she said these songs were done from a >"female perspective." i agree with those of you who don't quite see it in >these songs. what i think tori is really doing with these songs is just >getting us to maybe hear the message a little differently by having these >songs sung by a woman. does this make sense? she's not necessarily showing >a female perspective, just showing how different the song can be when done by >someone of another gender. b+c is a big example of that. i don't see a >female perspective in that song. all she did was strip it down and make the >listener hear how disturbing a song it is when eminem's upbeat background is >replaced by her creepy strings and whispering. >any thoughts? >toodles, >The Rayzengirl >------- >------- >"We've got to lighten up on the whole savior bit, folks. >You know, get off the cross, we need the wood." >Tori Amos ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 01:54:47 -0500 From: David Mobley Subject: Re[3]: crappy songs for starters , "the wind done gone" was an unauthorized publication. THe original copyright holder never authorized it in any way shape or form, therefore it's bad. Tori COULD have, and many artists do, seek permission to modify and otherwise creatively re-interpret copyrighted works. Remixes fall into this sort of category, as the lyrical structure of the song in most cases is completly abandoned. All you have to do is make sure it's okay with the original copyright owner. Garbage asked the Pretenders if they could snatch the chorus from "talk of the town" and add it to one of their songs for their last album, and the result was an emphatic "yes" from the original author. Generally speaking the people who end up in court for things of a copyright nature are the ones who do things without permission. And in this world, asking nicely goes a long way, especially if you're a prominent musician. and in short response to everything else that's been said about "woman's perspective" I hardly think that a female uttering the exact same words that a man wrote qualifies as perspective in any dictionary definition. It may sound creepy, it may sound different, but come on, stop trying to put something in a song that isn't there. Monday, July 23, 2001, 6:57:02 PM, you wrote: A> If she changed any of the lyrics, she'd be facing copyright law. Look at _The Wind Done Gone_, the _Gone with the Wind_ parody. I don't believe she really CAN change any of the lyrics without A> facing a court battle. It's one thing to write a whole new song commenting on another song, but to the best of my knowledge, you can't take someone else's work and change a few of the lyrics. >> >>could have helped if she'd changed the lyrics to not call herself >>'daddy' in 97 bonnie and clyde for starters. If the songs are sung >>from the perspective of a man, then singing them as written doesn't >>convey much but a different delivery, and hardly a perspective. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:10:27 -0400 From: "Eric Souliere" Subject: thoughts hi allok, first of all, i completely agree with whoever said "dont listen if you dont like it, and keep listening to LE for the rest of your life."...I wasn't a big fan of TVAB when it came out, and i got to like it. Listening right now actually. It wasn't the whole "girl at the piano" thing, but it was Tori and I realized that if she did the same thing for her entire career, it would be boring. I have discussions with friends pertaining to this topic, about Ani Difranco as well, if anyone else is a fan of hers. Her sound changes on an album-to-album basis, but I grow to like the changes and appreciate them as artists. I also have to add that the reason I don't like Helen Hunt as an actress is because I feel she plays the same role in every movie she stars in. Granted, she was wonderful in "As Good as it Gets" but I feel that she isnt exploring her opportunities as an actress. If Tori stayed the same 'girl at the piano' for her entire career, I think more people would complain about that than her changing sound. Brief thoughts on the songs- I honestly can't really form a solid opinion yet about the songs or the album. I've only heard SLG, 97B&C and HoG, like most other people and I am a little disappointed with SLG and HoG, and I find 97B&C very emotional and interesting. But I dont want to make any judgements until I hear the full album. But the first thing that came to my head when I heard SLG was "radio friendly." All I can is that my mind is open and I can't wait for September 18 -- and the night when she plays Boston ;o) -Eric - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 03:27:00 EDT From: Mysterilady2001@cs.com Subject: Sooo.. Tori, how does that hot frying pan feel? Hi ya EWF ~ First off, it's wonderful to read everyone's posts. This EWF is enjoying :-) Secondly, Jas ~ GREAT point! Yes, makes sense. Tori does have her own label now and has one act, as far as we know. Makes sense that maybe, possibly, she is going to promote herself now. Way to go! Thirdly, I've been thinking and reading all your posts, talking to friends and thinking some more - a brilliant process really. I looked at my background as a formally abused spouse and an active advocate for my local women's shelter and former RAINN volunteer. I am, I suppose, experienced & educated in this area. This is what I think: I have disdain for abusive men. I have zero tolerance for them & their BS. I have teenagers and heard Eminem's original "97 B&C" many many times in my home, car, etc., due to my kids. 'Cause I'm a good Mom I always try to make controversial subjects learning experiences. Hearing that song gave me opportunity to open up dialogue with my kids and so I tolerated it. (Sometimes I wasn't in the mood and so I'd change the station, sometimes enough is enough.) I felt we had heard the controlling man's viewpoint with Eminem's. This is where my thinking today comes in. I was sooo excited about Tori just releasing an album, thrilled really. Then we hear its going to be largely about women's issues - the subjugation of women I think Tori spoke of. Then we hear what songs were going to be on it and "97 B&C" becomes a focus. I know I was shocked. Because I knew this song (a bit too well) I was hopeful of what I perceived it COULD be. I think that's where my disappointment comes from. I assumed it would have lyric changes. That was my fault. I assumed. And WE ALL know what happens when we assume - We make as ASS out of U and ME. (LOL! That still cracks me up!!!) I very much wanted Tori's version to be an in your face, incredible statement for abused women everywhere. That's just so much to put on Tori. Is it fair to expect this of her? No. I'm no song writer, what do I know of writing lyrics! I do know what I hoped. I don't know if its right for me to feel disappointed with Tori. I'll have to continue sitting with that one. I have issues near & dear to my heart from personal experience and I was projecting that on my expectations of Tori's music. (WOW! Can we all tell who's had extensive therapy or what!?! hahaha :-) I'm going to have to let all this information & insight settle and wait for further 411 from Our Tori. I am hopeful the circle will be more in focus as the events of the next 6 months/year happen. I believe there are reasons we are unaware of. The *i chi* in my tea Toodles ~ MysT *I usually write something funny here, or at least make a stab at funny. This time I'm serious. The problem with spousal abuse is a serious one for women, children & men. The laws have become more strict, police are now required to become actively involved in domestic abuse. This is good. Because women are less afraid of the stigma of being divorced, frequently with children, more women are leaving their abusive spouses. This is good. While in decades past people did not believe men could be victims to their wives rage, now it is becoming more accepted that abused husbands exist. More & more the husbands are getting police & judicial support. This is good. We have made leaps & bounds in progress in the last 15 years. The problem, as I see it, is to treat WHY the rage & control exists that creates spousal abuse, child abuse, rape and situations like school shootings. Mature people can hear a song like "97 Bonnie & Clyde" and reason that the man killing his ex-wife is not an answer to his problems, it only creates more. The problems occur when immature mentalities hear a song like this and think it is the answer. Does Tori's cover of "97 B&C" help or hurt? I don't know. I just don't know. **Next time I'll try to be funny. Or at least amusing. OK, maybe just goofy. *** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:15:57 EDT From: ToriLiscious@cs.com Subject: Tori Does Dallas.. sounds like a porno "The Bronco Bowl isn't a stadium. It seats about 3,500 people. I've seen her there at least a couple of times and it's the right size for a Tori show. " well thank freakin god. whoever that is. "The only problem is, since the seating is sort of horseshoe shaped, you can get seats on the wrong side of the stage and just have a view of Tori's back for most of the concert cause her piano is facing the other way." that many people, and there's sitting room only? is it all indoors? smoking allowed? sorry.. whenever i hear something called a "bowl" i think of football. (football season's almost here, and rice is a raider! yay! - sorry) ok, ok sorry about the cursing at first.. it's just.. well.. tori's just making me "V" my eyebrows.. and, well.. stuff, micah ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V6 #125 *************************************