From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V6 #111 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Monday, July 9 2001 Volume 06 : Number 111 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Bonnie & Clyde-Empathy for Her Husband [UnderH20thing@aol.com] Re: Bonnie & Clyde-Empathy for Her Husband [SatelliteNo2@aol.com] Re: Bonnie & Clyde-Empathy for Her Husband [Brandy <1kloned@home.com>] Re: empathy vs. sympathy [SatelliteNo2@aol.com] Re: Bonnie & Clyde-Empathy for Her Husband [violet@torithoughts.org] Re: Bonnie & Clyde-Empathy for Her Husband [ToriLiscious@cs.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:13:59 EDT From: UnderH20thing@aol.com Subject: Re: Bonnie & Clyde-Empathy for Her Husband you know what...I was thinking the same thing. How could she create these female characters if she didn't change the lyrics? Hm? I wonder about that? ...till next time see you in the dreamtime... Glitter Girl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 16:29:11 EDT From: SatelliteNo2@aol.com Subject: Re: Bonnie & Clyde-Empathy for Her Husband In a message dated 7/7/01 1:14:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ToRiGLosS@aol.com writes: << How can ANYTHING be conveyed if, as the Time Magazine article says, she changed NONE of the lyrics.. Does this seem strange to anyone else? >> Well, she must have done something different. Otherwise she wouldn't have done anything at all to begin with. She's not one to simply copy other artists' work. She's done something. I can't wait to see what. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 22:02:18 -0600 From: Brandy <1kloned@home.com> Subject: Re: Bonnie & Clyde-Empathy for Her Husband I am not sure but sometimes the way you pronounce/ennunciate a word can change its meaning. brandy ToRiGLosS@aol.com wrote: > > How can ANYTHING be conveyed if, as the Time Magazine article says, she > changed NONE of the lyrics.. Does this seem strange to anyone else? > > (:7.8((*7.8 8.7*()8.7:) > +.707. AmY.707.; > (8.7:(8.7(* *(7.8):7.8) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 16:26:46 EDT From: SatelliteNo2@aol.com Subject: Re: empathy vs. sympathy In a message dated 7/7/01 1:14:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Dracovixen@aol.com writes: << I hope that whatever the afterlife might be, they're suffering the worst of it. >> I'm sure they have gone to either one of the lowest levels of the afterlife or they were sent back to this planet to see what misery they created, but from another person's perspective. I'm also sure that many of the people who participated in pushing them to their limit are suffering right now also, knowing what a mistake all of them made as a whole. I don't believe in scapegoats, or putting all of the blame on one individual. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 13:46:13 -0700 From: violet@torithoughts.org Subject: Re: Bonnie & Clyde-Empathy for Her Husband UnderH20thing@aol.com wrote: >you know what...I was thinking the same thing. How could she create these >female characters if she didn't change the lyrics? > >Hm? I wonder about that? I think she keeps the same lyrics, but might move them around and possibly add some comment of her own in the background. Atlantic's press release said: Songs composed by such artists as Neil Young, the Stranglers, Eminem, Depeche Mode, Slayer, Lou Reed, Lennon/McCartney, and others are taken apart and put back together darkly, gently, and in an uncompromising fashion. "Taken apart and put back together..." That's an interesting clue. :) As Mikewhy wrote on the Dent (in response to the Times article), "Tori has taken songs written and originally sung by men and, without substantial rewriting, created a female character for each." I think that will prove accurate -- that it's not that there wasn't any rewriting ... just not SUBSTANTIAL rewriting. For instance, imagine how much you could change a lyric or sentence if you simply changed the word "you" to "I". I don't know what Tori's doing exactly, since I haven't heard it, but just to illustrate, take the beginning of the Eminem song: Baby your da-da loves you And I'ma always be here for you no matter what happens You're all I got in this world I would never give you up for nothin Nobody in this world is ever gonna keep you from me I love you And imagine it sung from the dead woman's viewpoint as: Baby your da-da loves you And he'll always be there for you no matter what happens You were all I had in this world I would never give you up for nothin Nobody in this world is ever gonna keep you from me I love you If that's even remotely along the lines of what she'll be doing ... oh my god. Just the thought gives me chills. Violet xoxox ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:32:38 EDT From: ToriLiscious@cs.com Subject: Re: Bonnie & Clyde-Empathy for Her Husband >>I am not sure but sometimes the way you pronounce/ennunciate a word can change its meaning.<< That's exactly right Brandy. I don't know how many times I have listened to a Tori song and had one meaning, and then seen it done live, and thought, "oh my god, i didn't even think of this song having this meaning" and now there's like, 30 different interpretations of one Tori song running through my mind. Tori can make any word mean anything, just based on her weird 'Tori-speak' and with the crazy faces she makes, and whether she has a band behind her or not, whether she uses her piano or whether the piano is using her. I know that there are some songs on BFP that I'm still pondering over. Many of you say that she MUST have changed something. well of course she did. she's using the piano instead of the original song's background music. she's probably slowing down the tempo, like she usually does when she covers a song. but i don't know that she has EVER changed the lyrics. she has sometimes omitted some lyrics to previous covers, but never has she changed them. (Or i'm not aware if she has.) i really don't think tori would change the lyrics of a song and then have the balls to put the original artists' name on the credits. i believe she's much more professional than that. On another note, about the whole empathy thing. I have always prided myself in being very objective (sometimes getting myself in trouble) and seeing everything from others' point of view. I have found myself feeling quite empathetic for some of the most evil people of our time. I'm not going to say who, or for what actions, because i don't want to start a riot. however, it is possible to be a good person and still feel empathy for someone who is not right. just my pov, stuff, micah ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V6 #111 *************************************