From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V5 #198 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Wednesday, August 30 2000 Volume 05 : Number 198 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Posters -- eBay [Julie Libes ] improving Dent [JNe9027355@aol.com] CDR colours [Ken Tough ] Re: [BeyondThePale] what song makes you cry? ["Lauren DePhillips" ] Cornflake girl on BBC advert! ["Danny.Weddup" ] Re: The live venus disc [Ken Tough ] Re: why is purp.people (live dates string) [Erinita ] Re: newbie in need of advice! [Nadyne Mielke ] Thanks! formerly 'Posters' [FireflyLG@aol.com] Re: newbie in need of advice! [Richard Handal ] Re: Carnival?? [the real dick cheney ] Re: clarifying my gripe on the dent [Igramul EWF ] ADMIN: Dent criticism [Michael Curry ] ADMIN: How to unsubscribe [Michael Curry ] Re: The live venus disc [Richard Handal ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 00:32:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Julie Libes Subject: Re: Posters -- eBay eBay is a great source of rare stuff for collectors and/or obsessed fans. Just remember, only bid on the last day of the auction. This way you'll pay less (trust me). Also, if the price seems too high of a price to bit on, don't. Most items will come around again. - ------Original Message------ From: Judas658@aol.com To: FireflyLG@aol.com, precious-things@smoe.org Sent: August 29, 2000 1:22:22 AM GMT Subject: Re: Posters I think ebay is a great place to get tori posters...The prices really vary...I've paid 30$ for a subway, and then 8 the next day for another subway poster :) you can't keep me from god............. damn sinner girl....................... you can't keep me................... you'll never keep me............. ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 01:59:19 EDT From: JNe9027355@aol.com Subject: improving Dent In a message dated 8/28/2000 10:33:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org writes: << It is a news site, not a Tori encyclopedia. That being said, if you would sketch out a diagram showing how you would organize the site, in such a way that it is easy to update quickly, then please do so. I have been doing this for 4 years and I can not think of a better way. But I am open to ideas. I incorporated many ideas on my last update and the site is MUCH better now. And I will keep making changes. >> ok, this is where we clash: i NEED a tori encylopedia...that site, Concluding the fanfare & visitation it recieves, should be one. Why isn't? that's absolutely ridiculous to just keep it as a news forum when you have the means & all-access to provide all-around detailed info. who else hates site-hopping when trying to piece together info that could easily be placed on one site, instead of combing thru links or being linked up to what-have-u? - -AJ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 08:16:52 -0400 From: Ken Tough Subject: CDR colours [ Sorry, not very Torirelevant] "The Yims" wrote: >I'm just wondering why this is? Do they not make silver-backed CDrs? http://idt-microsynergy.com/support/cdrfaq/part4/faq-doc-83.html Verbatim (used to?) make a silver CD-R media. In fact, the colours aren't quoted as "green" or "silver" or "gold", but "green/blue" "silver/blue" or "silver/silver" etc. The reason being it's a combination of the metal "substrate" colour plus the colour from the writable layer of dye. The dye is either a greenish blue, or colourless (hence silver/silver). So if you wanted, you could buy a silver writable disc, but generally they are (were?) considerably more expensive than green/blue disks (like 10x). The substrate colour is mainly for distinguishing discs with the different "phthalocyanine" dye. These have slightly different chemical characteristics, and have better "staying power". The guaranteed lifetime of "blue" media is in the order of tens of years, whereas the other dye was suggested stable for 100 years. The dye material is all a bit academic though, since from what I hear the quality of the plastic resin and sealing is even more important.. the breakdown is primarily because water vapour eventually makes it through microscopic faults in the plastic seam and contaminates the media. >I'm assuming this is done on purpose, but is it impossible for me >to buy and burn silver blank CDs? How are they pressed? Regular CDs have their little pits pressed in from a master disc, before being coated in plastic resin. CD-ROMs have spots written onto them by a laser changing dye on the already-sealed disk. A pressing is pretty expensive for anything under several thousand quantity. Better to go for the pricier CD-ROM media. - -- Ken Tough Montserrat ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:46:31 GMT From: "Lauren DePhillips" Subject: Re: [BeyondThePale] what song makes you cry? There's only one song that never fails to get me everytime .. Winter. Also I have questions about the value of two tori items. One is the album flat for TVAB I've seen on ebay for close to $50. Is it really worth that much? Also a limited edition print that was given out at certain stores when TVAB was released. How limited is it? I paid about $40 for it. Was that a fairly good deal? lauren15@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/lilya8 ********************** "The way I see, I was really fortunate to get a serious head dunking when I was baptized. When you stay in the water a little longer with your head pushed down, you can begin to see what's on the bottom of the sea." *********************** _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:22:22 -0400 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: dent.here.in my head At 01:24 AM 8/28/2000 EDT, JNe9027355@aol.com wrote: >hold up--if it's so good why must i scour for the info??? >all of the info should be DISPLAYED IN SUMMARY before even entering the page. >Doing this is not only an act of courtesy but a show of genuine >professionalism AND consideration. Not at all. The index to a book is never at the front of the book. The chapters are, just as the Dent's links to the main parts of the page are listed right along the top of the screen. The recent re-design of the Dent cleared up many of its problems. There are still some outstanding, but Mike is working to fix them. He's mentioned, for example, that he is working on a search feature. Understand that it is a work in progress, and that Mike is always open to constructive criticism. Coming in here and whining that you don't like it simply isn't conducive to making the site a better place. Emailing Mike to say that you think his site would be better / easier to navigate / whatever if he'd do / add / improve X can help. /nad ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:44:39 +0100 From: "Danny.Weddup" Subject: Cornflake girl on BBC advert! Hi everyone I've just got back from two weeks holiday in Croatia and am in the process of sifting through my inbox. I missed you while I was away :o) I was watching telly earlier this evening, BBC1, and Holiday had just finished. The BBC drama logo came up, and an advert for a new drama series came on. And they use cornflake girl as the music! It's quite a long advert, and you hear the jangly intro and the first piano part, then the piano part that comes on after the 2nd chorus, when tori says, 'never was a cornflake girl....thought that was a good solution.' It's instrumental, you don't hear Tori's voice. The series is called Other Peoples Children, adapted from a novel by Joanna Trollope I think they said. It's coming on sometime in september. For some reason I feel I'd better watch it, because they chose Tori for the advert. It seems to be about two parents who get divorced, and the effects on the children. It didn't look too happy, with scenes of arguing over the dinner table and the mother crying. Bye, danny ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:19:25 -0400 From: Ken Tough Subject: Re: The live venus disc Richard Handal wrote: [lack of dates on which the live tracks are recorded] >And if it isn't normal for live pop records, her record company people >should know how her fans are, and that we would want to have the dates. >It's a disappointment to me not to be able to put the tracks in >context. The live Venus disc is less valuable to me because of that. I thought the problem seems to be that Tori, Mark, and Marcel (who made the selection of tracks amongst all the recordings) themselves don't know the dates of the tracks. (Didn't you tell us that?) I'd suppose if they don't supply the info, the record company people can't do much about it. Although I suppose they could have pushed for it, and I find it hard to believe it's not a simple matter for the producers to track it down. >Of course, I'd rather have entire shows intact anyway, warts and all. >But she wanted the thing to be "perfect" and something she could be >proud of looking back fifty years hence. I'm afraid that to Tori, >"perfect" includes no tiny technical errors that almost no one would >notice, and a sense of flow was sacrificed by piecing that live disc >together as was done. But she doesn't listen to me. ;-) At least she's not as far down the road as someone like pianist Glenn Gould, who so believed in the perfection of the performance that most tracks on album are cut-and-pastings of dozens of different performances. (No mean feat, given it was done with some pretty basic--really cut & paste--technology. In fact, a huge number of classical tracks are so pieced together). Still, Tori at least feels the flow of energy resonating with the audience, whereas Gould firmly held the performance was a single- direction effort. So much so that he gave up performing in public altogether. - -- Ken Tough Montserrat (I just live here). - -- Ken Tough ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 06:50:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Erinita Subject: Re: why is purp.people (live dates string) To reiterate Andy's point, I have Portishead, Dave Matthews Band, Dido, & K's Choice albums with live performances listed in detail (some of which I didn't even know were live until reading the liner notes). So I guess it comes down to preference of the artist and label. Although, I think the general consensus here would be to have the information listed, I bet Tori has some kind of detailed journey of an explanation as to why the dates & venue aren't listed. I would love to hear her go off on that. Erin On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 15:51:23 EDT, Prntr66051@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 8/27/2000 11:02:17 PM Central Daylight Time, > nadyne@rmta.org writes: > > << Isn't it standard procedure for a live show to not include information on > where each individual track was taken from? Glancing quickly through my > collection, I don't think any of the live albums that I have mention which > show each individual track is from. > > This isn't to say that I wouldn't like the information, but I don't > necessarily fault Tori and/or Atlantic for not including it. I have to > wonder how many people, beyond completist freaks like you and me :) , > really care where the tracks come from. > >> > I was reading this post and got quite curious. I went to my music collection > and realized that I dont really have any live albumns other than tori. Most > of the live stuff I have is from one show only (i,e, The Cure---Paris) etc. > Is is not standard practice to list the shows when they come from different > venues? I am almost positive I have seen this format in the past. > > Andy > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------Ive a > suggestion to keep you all occupied....learn to swim > > Any kind of touch I think is better than none even upside down > > She lived like a murder but she died just like suicide _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:38:28 -0400 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: newbie in need of advice! At 06:06 PM 8/28/2000 -0400, The Yims wrote: >>You can tell a CD-R by the color of the back of >>the disc. A true CD (one pressed by a company) will be silver, whereas a >>CD-R (one made by a fan with their computer) will be blue, green, or gold. >I'm just wondering why this is? Do they not make silver-backed CDrs? I'm >assuming this is done on purpose, but is it impossible for me to buy and >burn silver blank CDs? How are they pressed? A CD made by a commercial company is pressed -- that is, there is a mold made, and then CDs are pressed from that mold. If you've ever seen shaped soap made, that's a similar process. A CD-R made by a fan in their computer is burnt -- that is, the laser in their CD-R drive burns the data onto the blank CD-R. The back of a CD-R is blue, green, or gold because that's the color of the dye that the laser in the burner can burn into. There are some dyes that are close to silver, but you can still tell the difference when comparing them to a regular commercial CD. More information is available at the CD-R FAQ at: http://www.fadden.com/cdrfaq/ To keep this on-topic, most Tori boots that you will find on eBay are CD-Rs. There are no known silver pressed bootlegs from the 1999 tour. There are very very few from the 1998 tour (only four or five). You can find the complete listing of known commercial bootlegs in the Tori Amos Bootleg Discography at: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/alley/4370/tabdnew.html A CD-R isn't worth anything more than the cost of the blank CD, artwork, and the case. A real commercial boot may or may not be worth more: some collectors really like to have the original boot, but most people really just care about the music on the disc. A commercial boot is only worth US$25ish for a single disc, and US$50ish for a two-CD set. For the most part, commercial bootlegs do not increase in value. The only possible exception (that I'm aware of) to this is the original issue of the four-CD set called "Tori Stories". It usually goes for around US$100. This may or may not be an increase in value. For example, I purchased my copy from Rainy Day Records for US$70, so it's increased in value for me. However, several people purchased their copy from other outlets, and some paid as much as US$200 for it, so it's decreased in value for them. For more discussion about bootlegs, you may wish to subscribe to the Tori-boot mailing list at . HTH. :) /nad ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:47:04 EDT From: FireflyLG@aol.com Subject: Thanks! formerly 'Posters' I want to thank everyone who responded to my inquiry about posters... I appreciate it immensely! I finally went to EBay, and bid on a half-dozen different ones :) Thanks so much! Liz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:55:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Handal Subject: Re: newbie in need of advice! Someone asked: > . . . is it impossible for me to buy and burn silver blank CDs? How > are they pressed? Here's an article that describes how CDs are pressed. http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/sep98/articles/digitalbasics.html Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 18:31:46 -0400 From: the real dick cheney Subject: Re: Carnival?? when we last left our heroes, Liquid Pie exclaimed: >Mike Vardal exclaimed: > >>But what is that song >>"Carnival" on some new movie soundtrack?? Is it a new >>song of hers, or a cover? I don't really wanna buy a >>whole CD just for one Tori song. :) > It's a new song as far as I know. it's actually a remake of the song "manha de carnival" which was written by luiz bonfa for the 1959 film "orfeu negro" ("black orpheus"). the song has been both translated to english and performed by other artists several times. tori sings one of these translations. *however*, the faster-paced portion at the end of the remake is new music and lyrics by tori. not exactly a new song, but at least an embellished ending. >I don't know if it's really worth it to >buy the whole soundtrack. I've heard mixed opinions of it. I just downloaded >it from Napster and I like it a lot. it's not bad but not transcendant. i have a mp3 of it available on my tori mp3 page if folks are having trouble tracking it down with napster. woj ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:06:14 +0200 From: Igramul EWF Subject: Re: clarifying my gripe on the dent > From: JNe9027355@aol.com 1) > also, since its the best nexus for info..it should be the best of the best in > tori-dom. Meaning, all the sites should collaborate and add all the goods, > esp. graphics/desktops there so i dont constantly have to link-out of the > site. ... 2) > With the amount of tori webrings im surprised none have collab'd to improve > on the Dent and make it the ULTIMATE site in info, art, song interpretations, > media, AND most importantly--a neatly edited FAQ. Having only one Tori site? Covering any Tori related stuff? - - that would be boring, don't you think? (especially for all tori adoring webmasters among us) Discovering Tori for you and having any background info immediately, what's so exciting about that? For me, the possibility to discover even after 7 years new background info, new or different interpretations of her lyrics and her music, this inexhaustible information pool, that is what really makes me staying, being constantly toriphile. Especially her music will never turn to be boring. For example last weekend I have been to a large music event, the "popkomm" in cologne. A radio station had a stage there, with a lot of live acts broadcasting the whole event. Between the bands they played music from the radio. I have been there for Heather Nova, and after she had finished her gig, this radio station played beauty queen / horses from bfp via the speakers of the stage. It was simply the bfp version of this song, but I was totally confused. I allready had left the venue, so I could not longer view the stage, it was like Tori sitting there, singing, playing her Bösi. It was this live athmosphere, that gave me a new feeling for this pair of songs, remembering my first concert in her early days. This is the song, that makes me cry. back to the topic of this mail... every site has its own maintopic, that makes it so wonderfull surfing around. and by the way, again the dent has a hugh commented link list, where you find pages with the topics you are looking for. Find out and have fun Inke ********************************************************** She said it's time I open my eyes don't be afraid to open your eyes Maybe she's right maybe she's right Tori Amos ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:51:40 -0400 From: Michael Curry Subject: ADMIN: Dent criticism Hi all, Rather than let this debate get even more out of hand, starting with the latest batch of moderation I'm only sending along those emails on this topic that seem to have to do with the Dent itself, rather than with the topic of posting for/against the Dent. I'm not trying to squash discussion of the good or bad points of Mike's web site (which I personally like), just get rid of some of the non-constrictive stuff that's sprung up as things have gotten a little... passionate. Michael precious-things co-owner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:53:15 -0400 From: Michael Curry Subject: ADMIN: How to unsubscribe Just a reminder... To unsubscribe from either version of precious-things please follow these simple steps. 1) Use the email account you are trying to unsubscribe. 2) Address your email to majordomo@smoe.org 3) In the body of the message, depending on which version of the list you are subscribed to, write either: unsubscribe precious-things or unsubscribe precious-things-digest 4) Send the email. 4) If you get an error message from majordomo (claiming for example that the address you are trying to unsub isn't a member of the list) please contact woj and I at owner-precious-things@smoe.org Thanks, Michael precious-things co-owner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:53:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Handal Subject: Re: The live venus disc Ken said: > I thought the problem seems to be that Tori, Mark, and Marcel > (who made the selection of tracks amongst all the recordings) > themselves don't know the dates of the tracks. True enough. :-) In a better scenario the record company would have said in advance that they would have wanted the dates and Tori's production crew could have made a point of bothering to keep track of them. I *often* yearn for better things. ;-) Can't say I EXPECT them but it never stops me from wishing for them. > At least she's not as far down the road as someone like pianist > Glenn Gould, who so believed in the perfection of the performance > that most tracks on album are cut-and-pastings of dozens of > different performances. True again. I love the hell out of Glenn Gould and his techniques worked for what he did, but indeed, with the kind of music Tori's been doing I imagine it would be disastrous. I'd love to hear her play some of the Bach English Suites, though. She's got enough separate voicings going on with her technique when she wants to that she could do some *killer* Bach piano recordings if she ever wanted to. Interesting to note is how Gould was often made to record in the studio with some sort of a wall between him and his piano, for similar reasons that Tori recorded at least Pele in a space lined with acoustical material which was dubbed "Tori's house." (Gould was infamous for humming while he played and it could be heard on the records. Many years ago Stereo Review magazine had a cartoon which was very funny, of a table full of home stereo components, each labelled with what they were, and one of them was a Glenn Gould Hum Filter. Maybe you had to be there.) Anyway, to head off possible questions about "Tori's house" from those who never knew about it, I will direct you to an article in which it was described-- Hallmark of quality for Tori album http://thedent.com/techart.html > (No mean feat, given it was done with some pretty basic--really cut & > paste--technology. Yes, Glenn died only as the age of digital recording was starting. He would have been well-served by having had access to it earlier in his career. He was a true virtuoso who, like Tori, drives some people absolutely up the wall while engendering deep loyalties in others. > Still, Tori at least feels the flow of energy resonating with the > audience, whereas Gould firmly held the performance was a > single-direction effort. So much so that he gave up performing in > public altogether. And it was fairly early in his career, too. I can't imagine Tori going to such extremes to ensure her ideas of perfection, but they are at odds with live performing to the extent that part of me wonders how she ever gets through a show without major self-flagellation--or does she? Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. Some men see things as they are and say, "Why?' I dream things that never were and say, 'Why not?' --Bobby Kennedy adapted from G.B. Shaw ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V5 #198 *************************************