From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V5 #125 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Sunday, May 28 2000 Volume 05 : Number 125 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Trent alluding to Tori?? [REEEEE145@aol.com] Re: starfuckers - the meaning? [Sliverain@aol.com] Regarding Trent & Tori ["Melissa" ] Re: web site for books tori has read ["H P" ] re: Trent alluding to Tori?? [violet@torithoughts.org] Re: web site for books tori has read ["~blackdove82 *" ] Re: starfuckers - the meaning? [Jennifer Mitts Cypres Subject: Regarding Trent & Tori Those interested in the speculation regarding the relationship between Trent & Tori may want to check out this thread over at the Dent's forums: http://www.atwebsites.com/forums/Forum36/HTML/000064.html Its several pages long, but there is a thorough overall summary that you may want to skip to on page 6. Regardless of whether any of it is true or not, it does make for some interesting reading. Melissa ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 21:24:21 PDT From: "H P" Subject: Re: web site for books tori has read yes this is my site...thanks so much for mentioning it... theres a ton of books there...and growing... butterflies, Holly a musical butterfly http://fly.to/musicalbutterfly >From: CanVanZ@aol.com >Reply-To: CanVanZ@aol.com >To: precious-things@smoe.org >Subject: Re: web site for books tori has read >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 22:10:41 EDT > > >I'm near positive you're talking about Holly's site: > > >Musical Butterfly - Holly (hp@hotmail.com) >http://www.crosswinds.net/~mbutterfly/ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 21:23:57 -0700 From: violet@torithoughts.org Subject: re: Trent alluding to Tori?? Neither Tori nor Trent coined the term Starfucker. Starfuckers was a rock 'n' roll group circa 1987-1997. I don't know a great deal about them because there just isn't much info about them available out there. Best as I can make out, they were/are Italian. Their last album, Infrantumi, was released in early 1998 and can be found at Amazon.com. Just search for "starfuckers" in popular music. You can hear some of their stuff. (WARNING: *very* experimental.) One of the few (if not the only) Starfuckers web sites is located here: http://starfuckers.kyuzz.org/ There's not much there, but there is a discography. Violet xoxox ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 10:57:08 EDT From: "~blackdove82 *" Subject: Re: web site for books tori has read Hey Guys, Just wanted to say thanks for all of those who e-mailed me to give me the address, now I have something to read for the summer. Thanks kidds. Terry. AIM-Terro02 >From: "H P" >To: blackdove82@hotmail.com >Subject: Re: web site for books tori has read >Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 21:49:10 PDT > >Terry, > >just in case you have seen the pt post, it is my website you were looking >for, (i think ) > >a musical butterfly >http://www.crosswinds.net/~mbutterfly > >butterflies, > >Holly > > >>From: "Terry Ferrell" >>Reply-To: "Terry Ferrell" >>To: precious-things@smoe.org >>Subject: web site for books tori has read >>Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 16:17:39 EDT >> >> >>Does anyone know the web address to the site that had some of the books >>that >>Tori has read? I had this bookmarked like forever and a day ago and I cant >>find it now. I looked all over the place online and I cant find it, I >>looked in the Dent but I didnt see the link there, or I may have missed >>it, >>since the Dent is so big and full or wonderful info that keep getting me >>off >>topic of what i was looking for. If anyone can help me out I would be >>really thankful. Thanks kidds. >> >>Terry. >>AIM- Terro02 >>________________________________________________________________________ >>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 14:48:54 -0700 (PDT) From: mallika kommareddi Subject: Re: Trent alluding to Tori? >Though, I do think you're right, that he is alluding to Tori's >song, >Professional Widow. "Selling his baby, yeah etc..." Seems like >a >Starfucker >is someone who is a sell-out, perhaps someone who becomes a >dick to the >people that helped them get their big start...something along >those >lines... The word starfucker was coined by the Rolling Stones in their song "Star, Star". It originally referred to groupies. IMO, Trent was alluding to this (Marilyn Manson supposedly used him as a stepping stone to fame). Mallika __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 13:45:22 -0700 From: Beth Winegarner Subject: a few thoughts Christina wrote: > MTV calls it, "StarSuckers" kind of like titling > TOOL's song Stinkfist "Track 1" instead because they thought it was about > hitting people. Are you sure? I don't think MTV has a problem with songs about hitting people (if they did, Limp Bizkit's "Break Stuff" -- and a dozen others -- would probably have also been censored). I'm pretty sure it's because the title -- and song -- are about fisting. (At least on one level). Re: the whole "Starfuckers" conversation. I think it's possible Tori sparked the idea in Trent's mind to write a song, since she'd recently used the same vocabulary word, but neither of them invented the term. Beyond that, I'm not sure if Trent has ever acknowledged whether or not the song is about Manson or any others; he tends to be pretty diplomatic in the interviews I've read, even when it comes to discussing MM (before they renewed their friendship, anyway). Likewise, Tori has *never* said "Professional Widow" is about Courtney Love. Here are some of the things she HAS said, according to the Tori Amos Lyrics Database (http://www.powerup.com.au/~evos/dan/tori/): "That's my cornerstone song, my Lady Macbeth. It's my desire to be king, to have what the big boys have, and giving up my femininity and vulnerability to taste it." >From "Pianosexual", Diva, February-March 1996, by Lucy O'Brien I wrote it about my own experience. I got all that nastiness out. The truth is, if there's a part of you, of Polly [Jean Harvey], of Bjork, or of Courtney Love, which is the black widow, then you will relate to the song. If people don't feel that way, they won't resonate with it." >From an interview with Tori from Singapore, January 23, 1996. "Professional Widow is the Lady Macbeth archetype. There are many ways to play Lady Macbeth. It can be done in a Jackie O suit. Believe me, I... I like to think that I was clever about it. I don't think I really was. But I'd like to think I disguised it." (source unknown) "I was going, 'Oh, I wanna see him crawl.' And letting that be there. Wearing a really cute fuzzy pink shoe. And having no limitation of exploring certain facets of the personality. And being shocked and horrified about Professional Widow, and then loving her - just loving the fact that she's convincing him to kill himself, guaranteeing that Mother Mary will supply. And I said, you really can't get any lower than that. I love the fact that she said, 'This is how far I've gone - this is where I am at this moment. Are you willing to see that part of yourself? The part that wants his energy, that wants his fame, that wants his light - not recognizing your own.' It gets to the point where you don't even have to push him over the edge - you're just reading him poetry, and that's enough to make him want to kill himself." (source unknown) And finally: Seeing as you um, mentioned Courtney Love, there's talk that you wrote Professional Widow about her. Is that true? "There's a lot of talk about her. One of my best friends is close with her. I would never dishonor that." >From "Shock and bull TORI", Herald Sun newspaper (Australia), July 9, 1998, by Cameron Adams. There are more quotes on the site -- anyone who's confused about the subject of this song should find plenty of information there. :) Melanie wrote: > Christianity's conception of the Trinity is, alas, as unoriginal as most > of the rest of its traditions. God has been Three for a long, long time. > some of the oldest concepts of Deity represent Her (yes, *Her*) as Three: > Maiden, Mother, and Hag. I was thinking about this topic reading through some of the posts in the previous digest, and remembered that whatever other holy triuvirates there are, Under the Pink (the pyramid necklace premiered during this tour, and quotes "Waitress") contains one, and Tori has explicitly said as much: Bells for Her, Cornflake Girl and the Waitress are her own triad of songs which talk about ways in which women betray each other. Beth - -- "As sunlight obscures the stars by day, so does wakefulness blind us to the fact that we are still dreaming." (Peter Carroll) _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._ Visit my web site at http://echoes.devin.com -- see photos and artwork, read poetry and stories, learn about selkies and Sonoma County, and join the froud-faeries list. :) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 17:30:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Jennifer Mitts Cypres Subject: Re: starfuckers - the meaning? Courtney wrote: >>>well, trent says that the song, "starfuckers, inc" was written about the music business, specificaly marylyn manson, courtney love, billy corgan, you know the types. i think he is talking about the people, such as marylyn manson and courtney, who got famouse by fucking the stars (mm - trent, courtney - kurt)>>> Whoa. Hang on, hang on. I don't follow the news or talk about Smashing Pumpkins or MM or NIN, so forgive my ignorance, BUT are you saying that Trent and MM were lovers at one time, and that Trent helped MM rise to fame in the music world? Just curious. And also, where does Billy Corgan fit into this? I mean, who did he supposedly sleep with to get to the "top"? Thanks! - -jen ===== "The common cold virus is the cockroach of all illnesses-- hundreds of breeds, constantly mutating, impossible to destroy... Not unlike the 'boy band' phenomena." - -Jennifer Mitts Cypres, 1999 "War does not determine who is right; war determines who is left." -Ancient Chinese Wisdom __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V5 #125 *************************************