From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V5 #13 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Sunday, January 16 2000 Volume 05 : Number 013 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Subject: Re: A few questions... [FiercestCaIm@aol.com] oooooops [FiercestCaIm@aol.com] Re: Subject: Re: A few questions... ["Mike Gray" ] tori and radio [fartachu ] sheet music and concertina [Kristen xxx ] Re: Subject: Re: A few questions... [Richard Handal ] Re: sheet music and concertina [Richard Handal ] Fw: HRL (was 'Re: my veiws on concertina single') ["Daisy Dead Petals" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:36:51 EST From: FiercestCaIm@aol.com Subject: Re: Subject: Re: A few questions... P.S. - Its Myra Ellen - not mary . . . grim, but not devious [meg] as motives go ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:39:40 EST From: FiercestCaIm@aol.com Subject: oooooops um oh i feel stupid . . . sorry sorry my apologies - my eyes got ahead of my brain . . . mary ellen = mother, myra ellen = tori . . . . ahhhh this is what school does to a person! makes them dumb! sorry ken!!! .grim but never devious. [meg] .as motives go. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 11:14:29 -0000 From: "Mike Gray" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: A few questions... > >>1. Has either of Tori's parents mentioned what songs they like > >>best or what albums they like best? Incidentally, they were at the London gig ('99) and as I recorded at the time, they were overwhelmed with fans trying to talk to them. However, the real reason for this post is that I *thought* (and am probably wrong!) that Tori played "Winter" whenever they are in the audience. Am I mis-informed? Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 09:22:52 -0500 From: fartachu Subject: tori and radio when we last left our heroes, Zero Point exclaimed: >I think she's trying hard to NOT put out the radio-friendly tracks, which >bites 'cause i love 'em and wouldn't get tired of them. getting radio airplay is a lot more about promotion and sales, not producing radio-friendly tracks. of course, you need to have songs that are catchy or poignant or are capable of reaching people but, as we know, tori has no dearth of that. so what gives? well, the real radio track on _to venus and back_ was "1,000 oceans", but that single didn't go anywhere. why? i think it's because atlantic was not willing to bet heavily promoting "1,000 oceans" (in any country; not just in the united states) would have resulting in a large number of people, who hadn't already, buying _to venus and back_. radio is a tool towards sales. if the majority of the people who are going to buy _to venus and back_ (the big return item) already have, it does little good for a record label to work towards airplay. sure, the odd radio station here and there will play a track -- and, as has happened, a promo single (which is cheap to make) will be sent to radio stations -- but atlantic isn't going to spend any effort pushing the song. you know, the fact that there is a "concertina" single this late in the game makes me think that atlantic recognizes that there is an immediate market in tori's fans. they know that a lot of us will buy it and, since singles are relatively cheap to produce, it's worth their while...but any more effort on their part is not. woj ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 12:26:11 -0500 From: Kristen xxx Subject: sheet music and concertina <> I agree Aimee. I think the arrangements for different songs have to be treated in different ways. Sometimes, for some songs, I like the vocal lines in the piano part. Other times I'd rather play it like Tori. I wish that for certain songs, such as Concertina, the arranger would arrange it more like Tori plays Concertina solo on the piano, instead of how it sounds on the Venus and Back CD. Also, Nancee has transcribed the solo part in Cornflake Girl. It's at http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/6277/cornflake1.html It's much more like the way Tori plays it than the infamous version in the Under the Pink book. Other great transcriptions more like Tori plays them can be found at that site as well. << I am an advanced beginning (meaning i know where all the keys are it just takes me a while to get to them when playing something new but i can't play anything that is all fancy with weird symbols because i haven't learned those yet.) I have 2 months until a recital and wanted to play tori.anyways whats the verdict any simple tori songs to play kat>> Well, Kat, the easiest piece to play on the piano is Beauty Queen. lol. Seriously though, the first ones I learned to play was China and Winter.(though Winter might be slightly difficult because it has a good amount of flats in the key signature). And as said before by Emily, Twinkle is *very* easy as well. But Twinkle is a fun song to play too. Do tell me what you end up playing. :) Also, on the subject of Concertina, I think it was a really good choice for a single. I just hope it can be promoted enough to get airplay. - -Kristen ******** The Tori Hotel- http://www.geocities.com/apianogrrl/index.html or take this url: http://fly.to/torihotel ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 13:54:19 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Handal Subject: Re: Subject: Re: A few questions... Mike Gray said: > ...I *thought* (and am probably wrong!) that Tori played "Winter" > whenever they are in the audience. Am I mis-informed? That's right, you're wrong. ;-) Off the top of my head, Winter didn't come out last year in either Ft. Lauderdale nor Cincinnati. I didn't check Charlotte or Columbia from the 5 1/2 Weeks Tour. (They may have attended additional shows, too. I don't recall this minute.) They were in D.C. in '98 on the club tour, too, and she didn't play Winter. Now, she performed Winter at the *last* show they were to attend in '98. Clearly, in my mind, no coincidence. She did Mary that night, too. Quite egalitarian. ;-) London was apparently their final show in '99, too, BTW. As far as I know, only her sister was here in D.C. for the solo piano Christmas thing on December 6. Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 18:41:16 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Handal Subject: Re: sheet music and concertina Kristen said: > Sometimes, for some songs, I like the vocal lines in the piano part. > Other times I'd rather play it like Tori. Kristen, I'm really curious what this means about the vocal lines being in the piano part in some forms of song transcriptions. Does that mean the piano contains the melody line for the vocal as part of it, even though in the original version of the song Tori doesn't sing it that way? It sounds like the person singing along with such accompaniment would be essentially doubling the same melody line on the piano and by singing it. Sounds goofy to me, although maybe sometimes it works. How would the piano line as transcribed exactly differ? Examples of each would be interesting to me (and hopefully, for others, too). And if anyone else is also able to explain this to some of us who have had, at best minimal music training, I would be grateful to you if you can help us make sense of this. :-) (I don't know if this is really possible without using musical notation and teaching a class.) Many thanks, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 17:40:40 -0600 From: "Daisy Dead Petals" Subject: Fw: HRL (was 'Re: my veiws on concertina single') Does anybody have an audio copy of this (HRL) that they would like to trade? I am also looking for a copy of the Chicago show of the Venus tour. Let me know--I will send you my list to trade! Thanks! Daisy Melanie daislen@wctc.net Men are from earth. Women are from earth. Deal with it. "Women must understand that simply attacking or hating all men is just another form of disempowerment. A woman has to realize that when she makes a man crawl it doesn't give her power. All it will do is make her puke eventually. Rather than say "all men are bastards" let's say "all men are infants, until they decide to be men." Calling them bastards is boring at this stage." - -Tori Amos > courtniieee said: > > > p.s. did anybody else find that vh1's choice of hard rock live > > coverage boring? > > Man, *I* didn't. I could have done with something other than Bliss, but > all the other songs were wonderful for me. I even loved seeing her come > out and go into God. (Something about that repeating opening piano > figure before the vocal begins...) > > I thought she looked to be in her own element for a change (a rare > thing on television), the whole thing looked real good, and she got > more than half the hour to herself. (Of *course* I'd have rather she > had the entire hour, but since they did split the program between two > acts I thought she got a decent shake at 34 minutes. Surely the Beth > Hart fans have much more right to complain about her getting only like > *24* minutes.) > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 21:36:13 -0500 From: "Aimee" Subject: Re: sheet music and concertina Richard said: > >Kristen, I'm really curious what this means about the vocal lines being >in the piano part in some forms of song transcriptions. Does that mean >the piano contains the melody line for the vocal as part of it, even >though in the original version of the song Tori doesn't sing it that >way? It sounds like the person singing along with such accompaniment >would be essentially doubling the same melody line on the piano and by >singing it. Sounds goofy to me, although maybe sometimes it works. > >How would the piano line as transcribed exactly differ? Examples of >each would be interesting to me (and hopefully, for others, too). You've got the basic idea . . . in many of her songs, what Tori *plays* on her piano and what she *sings* are very different. When this occurs, the songbook likes to ignore this fact, and write the song as it is *sung* - so if I took my songbook and my CD player and sat down at my piano and played along to the CD, my piano playing would not be doubling Tori's piano playing - it would be doubling her singing. I'm going through my LE songbook right now while listening to the album to come up with some examples of this, so here's some of what I'm picking up. Crucify The song opens with Tori singing - hardly any piano, just a few chords. In the songbook, the left hand plays the chord while the right hand doubles Tori's singing (i.e. "Ev-ery fin-ger in the room" = da-da da-da da da da on the piano). If you listen to the "I've been looking for a savior . . . " part, you'll hear that while Tori sings, there's a lot of really pretty tinkly piano going on underneath, that sounds nothing like the melody that Tori's singing. None of this is included in the songbook. :( Instead, the left hand continues to play chords while the right hand again doubles the singing. Girl The song opens with a piano solo - percussive chords and pretty tinkly notes on top. The songbook includes the chords for the left hand, but cuts out all but the first two tinkly notes Precious Things You'll probably notice that Tori repeats a pattern through most of this piece - the songbook starts off with this pattern, but breaks off as soon as the singing starts, to double the melody. I can understand that playing just the pattern might be overly repetitive; if you want the piece to sound like what Tori's playing, you can just keep repeating the pattern. However, when the pattern changes in the chorus, the songbook just continues doubling the melody. Winter So far, this is the most accurately transcribed piece I've seen so far (except maybe Leather). Even so, there are several changes here and there, where the songbook ppl have made an effort to double with the melody. Especially the end of the chorus, from "'Cause things are gonna change so fast" onwards. Then, before the third verse, the pattern from the first two verses changes . . . there's a piano solo (not included - a lot of the really beautiful piano solos aren't included). The pattern introduced in the solo continues while she sings, but in the piano book . . . repeat after me boys and girls: "the songbook doubles the singing." Happy Phantom Same deal as precious: the pattern Tori continues through the whole piece is introduced at the beginning of the transcription, but is abandoned as soon as the vocals come in. The songbook then . . . DOUBLES THE SINGING. Then, when the pattern changes, during the "And I will never need umbrellas in the rain . . . " part, the change isn't included in the transcription. Strangely enough, after the first two verses, the songbook includes a "Funky instrumental solo". I wonder what inspires the people who write this thing . . . how do they decide which "Funky instrumental solos" should be included? Because surely the piano solo in Leather is no less funky? which brings us to . . . Leather (I skipped China because I never listen to the song) Pretty accurate. Except no solo. (This solo is available at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/8482/sheet.htm and it's SO MUCH FUN!) Mother The pretty tinkly piano at the beginning? Not included (But also available at the website before. THANK YOU MINKMUTS!) The rest is pretty good though. I'm going to stop here because I'm exhausted, but I hope this helped and that some of you read this far. Hugs, aimee ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V5 #13 ************************************