From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V4 #292 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Wednesday, September 29 1999 Volume 04 : Number 292 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Josephine ["Tom xxxxx" ] Re: hazy meaning! ["Lynne Toussaint" ] Re: alanis' auction is better..dammit! ["squidgy" ] Re: My review of To Venus and Back ["Lynne Toussaint" ] Re: What a great album! ["Lynne Toussaint" ] Nipples Shirt [Erinita@aol.com] info on lost tori songs [Fairywinged@aol.com] [none] [angel dust ] Re: rape and such [copperbeech ] Re: patterns ["C. F." ] Yahoo magazine [Megasus ] Re: rape and such [Nadyne Mielke ] Re: Cooling on TVaB [Megasus ] Re: Datura [Megasus ] KROQ site FINALLY has Breakfast stuff up (FOR REALS) ["Wake UpNeo" ] Lazy, hazy meaning [Sara Hansen ] if she says she was, then she was. period. ["Wake UpNeo" Subject: Re: Josephine Hi y'all. On Tuesday, ShadyFeline posted her interpret of Josephine. Shady, I agree that it's about love and I thought your interpret was interesting and imaginative. However I think you missed one thing: Josephine herself, as in Napoleon's wife. I can't see the imagery as not involving her. She sits by the Seine as Moscow is burning, but "only not to be of use." Napoleon goes out to get the glory and she is left behind, doing nothing. She might as well be a jewel in his treasury. There's also the martial beat of the snare; it's definitely a marching feeling. Also "to advance or not to advance.": These military matters are the things that consume Napoleon's mind as he says "not tonight, Josephine." However, at the end, I don't think it's him talking. I think the point of view has switched to Tori herself, who may have been haunted by Josephine. She has said the songs on TVAB came even though she really didn't mean to do a whole album. Maybe she's saying "Josephine right now I just can't write your song" even as she was writing it. I don't know much of the history of that period, but Tori has made me feel that Josephine, despite being the lover of the most powerful man of her time, was lonely and consumed with emptiness. Even before I really heard the lyrics, the emptiness of the song struck me. Josephine is one of my faves off of TVAB. Suede, Juarez, and 1,000 Oceans are also grand. I like the sound of Datura, but don't think it will ever be a fave. Riot Poof does nothing for me (despite being a poof myself). I have to admit that the live disc is disappointing to me. So many of my faves are absent and about half the songs on it are what I would consider to be Tori's least affecting pieces. Just my opinion; I know some of you must adore every song on that disc. I feel the lack of Crucify and stuff from BfP and Choirgirl. OK, I got rambling. Sorry. blue skies, fair winds, and plenty of datura to you all, Tom "We own nothing, nothing is ours Not even love so fierce it burns like baby stars But this poverty is our greatest gift The weightlessness of us as things around begin to shift." Emily Saliers, "Everything in Its Own Time" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:20:52 -0400 From: "Lynne Toussaint" Subject: Re: hazy meaning! There are points in Spring Haze where it does sound possible for it to be about JFK, but I think it's assuming alot of the song to say that in its entirety, it is about JFK. Personally, I believe that parts of the song are about the recent event, but definitely not all of it. peace out with faerie hugs christina "religion has become much too important in our culture. so i say, 'get off the cross, we need the wood' " tori amos "do me a favor; it's the least that you can do. don't treat me like i am something that happened to you. i, i envy you, your ignorance; i hear that it's bliss" ani difranco "you know it's true, I'm part of you" tori amos ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:29:11 +0100 From: "squidgy" Subject: Re: alanis' auction is better..dammit! These people do seem to be a bunch of bastards who not only pissed of alot of people by claiming that sometime in the future they would be selling Tori Amos merchandise and cunningly forgot all about it, but now offer the only chance of getting any type of merchandise from Tori unwashable and for someone with shitloads of money who can afford to offer the highest bid for these t-shirts etc, and you get an appalling choice to bid on too...times like this you wish you were an Alanis fan only. I have a feeling that these web-site people are iccle buzzy flies around a huge pile of mone...sorry poo. Squidgy. (annoyed as you can tell.) - ---------- >From: "Kristy" >To: "pt" >Subject: alanis' auction is better..dammit! >Date: Mon, Sep 27, 1999, 22:38 > > > MMkay, this sucks! > The stuff Alanis is auctioning is *way* cooler than > what Tori is, and it makes me sad. Alanis is auctioning > off props from videos, a harmonica,handwritten lyrics... > that stuff is SWEET! > > and then, you go to Tori's auction. All there is to get > are autographed shirts (one of each from the tour), and > one auto'd tour program! :P it makes me SAD. just SAD. > i was looking at Tori's auction stuff, and then was thinking, > "hey, i wonder if alanis is doing the same." but nnooo.... > alanis is doing stuff we'd actually *want* if we were said > Alanisites. I mean, autographed Toristuffs are great, but > you can just go to a meet & greet, and ask her to sign said > shirt or said program. i'm sad. > > Love and Sparkles, > Kristy (\o/) > > "They're not Ears With Feet, they're Assholes With Tickets." > ~~*the lovely Amy Webb, aka WyrdWoman > > §Visit my Tori Amos website, at http://fly.to/behindmyeyes§ > *My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/tori_choirgirl > > "rolling and unrolling coiling emerging running free running through the > underworld into your room..." ~*Tori Amos ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:03:17 -0400 From: "Lynne Toussaint" Subject: Re: My review of To Venus and Back In the liner notes Tori is listed as playing synths. peace out with faerie hugs christina "religion has become much too important in our culture. so i say, 'get off the cross, we need the wood' " tori amos "do me a favor; it's the least that you can do. don't treat me like i am something that happened to you. i, i envy you, your ignorance; i hear that it's bliss" ani difranco "you know it's true, I'm part of you" tori amos - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Sunday, September 26, 1999 9:45 PM Subject: Re: My review of To Venus and Back > > In a message dated 9/25/99 11:13:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, XXXPandora > writes: > > > LOL It's meant to be like that!!!! And where are these synthesizers > that > > everyone is talking about??? Those are effects!!! I cannot even grasp why > > everyone hears some weird noise and automatically think they are > synthesizers! > > !!! > > Anyway obviously Tori likes how it sounds and it was meant to be that way. > > Do you think that after listening to the album over a million times Tori > and > > Mark accidentally made something overpower her vocals?? come on! > > > > and why must we compare this album to all the others all the time? > > > > I think this is Tori's masterpiece and that it stands on its own ... I > can't > > stop listening to it and haven't found a weak point yet (except for maybe > > glory of the 80's but even that song has its moments) which every other > album > > (except LE) has had. It is my favorite of hers to date and I think it > > showcases her talents beautifully (one of her talents being letting her > > voice take a backseat to the music). I absolutely love it!!! stay tuned > > for a more in depth review :) > > > > kisses, > > joanne > > I've very parcial to riot poof, and datura. the cd is amazing. I remember not > liking something's on choirgirl, and after a couple weeks, i kept saying 'why > didin't i like this in the beginning?' > > -Gus > orange jasmine, peace, love, and hard cocks all around. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:10:30 -0400 From: "Lynne Toussaint" Subject: Re: What a great album! Many times Tori has expressed, numerous ways, that to her, the songs have spirits, female spirits, and she does not *write* them, they visit her. They are friends to her. You know your fave song? You know how it speaks to you? Example...Fiona Apple's Never Is A Promise is a song that expresses how I feel about life almost perfectly, but depending on where I am in life, or what mood I'm in, her voice sounds different, or the words say different things to me. Sometimes her voice sounds tired, weary, sometimes it comes across that she is happy she thinks and feels this way, sometimes it is just sad, but it always changes when I hear it. The point is, songs can speak to you, you can converse with them. As a musician and a songwriter, this is all very clear to me. Some songs you really connect with, and they seem already written, as if your hands are only bringing them into physical form, which is what I believe they do. There are other songs that feel as if they *are* being written, and they never express as much, they never hold the amount of emotion and sense of raw being in them. Songs know where they want to be, and when they aren't where they want, they have a way of telling you to fuck off. peace out with faerie hugs christina "religion has become much too important in our culture. so i say, 'get off the cross, we need the wood' " tori amos "do me a favor; it's the least that you can do. don't treat me like i am something that happened to you. i, i envy you, your ignorance; i hear that it's bliss" ani difranco "you know it's true, I'm part of you" tori amos - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Sunday, September 26, 1999 10:05 PM Subject: Re: What a great album! > > In a message dated 9/26/99 10:33:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Sparkly658@hotmail.com writes: > > > > so totally different from the live version on the Hey Jupiter single, and > > > Cooling is even more beautiful live (but as regards the talky bit > > > beforehand, how can a song tell you to fuck off? > > Um, she's not meaning it literally, as if the song became human and spoke. > Use your imagination, don't you know tori by now? I think it's great when we > can say things that we wouldn't usually say because they sound strange. what > defines strange? > > -Gus > silver dollar eucalyptus > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:40:30 EDT From: Erinita@aol.com Subject: Nipples Shirt Someone please help me!! I am dying to get a look at this TVAB Tour shirt that everyone says the planets are look like nipples, because of the way they are placed. Can ANYONE tell me a website that has a pic of this shirt posted? Much appreciated. Erin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:13:24 EDT From: Fairywinged@aol.com Subject: info on lost tori songs At the las vegas meet and greet I talk to tori and asked her about Snow Cherries from France. She told me that she recorded it for TVAB also and then she told tori that she didn't want to be on the album and tori said it feels like she's made to be on video. I just thought I would let you know. kat ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:59:23 EDT From: angel dust Subject: [none] just wondering, is anyone here living in washington state? like latex, fur and feathers: angel "there is a difference between kneeling down and bending over" --frank zappa ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:17:06 -0400 From: copperbeech Subject: Re: rape and such Sarah Folkes wrote: > i have a question. was tori amos actually raped, or was it an attempted rape > with her getting away? i've gotten both stories and im confused. does it really matter? if you have been raped, or expereicne an attempt, there is little difference in the trauma factor... be well ~~kelley ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:46:27 EDT From: "C. F." Subject: Re: patterns Has anyone given any thought to the fact that only a certain amount of music will fit on one CD?? Her songs are not usually those 3 1/2 minuters that you find on a lot of cds, so maybe it's because she runs out of room after 12 or so songs....They can be quite hefty in length and even the mighty CD has its limitations. I am not sure what the capacity is for factory-pressed cds, but I know that regular blank cds you can get in the store come in either 74 or 80 minute lengths or 650MB or whatever... Cheerios! Carly From: XXXPandora@aol.com Reply-To: XXXPandora@aol.com To: toussaint@ime.net, precious-things@smoe.org Subject: Re: patterns Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:06:09 EDT In a message dated 9/26/1999 10:27:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, toussaint@ime.net writes: << LE, UTP, FTCGH are all 12 tracks long. Orbiting is 11 and Still Orbiting is 13, averaged together, 12. >> artists don't get paid for more than 12 tracks on one album ... I thinks thats probably why :) although if you want to think of it romantically then go ahead :) kisses, joanne ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:55:44 -0700 From: Megasus Subject: Yahoo magazine I don't know if it was mentioned yet (probably has... but I may have missed it) But I saw a short article and picture of Tori in Yahoo magazine at Barnes and Noble today... cute little picture.. but what is Tori doing with her hair? :) It mentioned www.tori.com and The Dent... so I'm sure somebody's mentioned it... but I wanted to point it out in case it hasn't been mentioned. Toodles for now! - -- ^_~Megasus~_^ http://members.xoom.com/Megasus/ ICQ# 14241089 "Just when you escape, you have yourself to fear.." -Tori Amos ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:32:58 -0400 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: rape and such At 09:28 PM 9/27/99 -0700, Sarah Folkes wrote: > >hey guys, >i have a question. was tori amos actually raped, or was it an attempted rape >with her getting away? i've gotten both stories and im confused. heh. thank >you :) I have a question for you: does it -really- matter? Is the difference between rape and near-rape that large that we must draw a distinction? For further discussion of this topic, I'd recommend reading the following page on the Dent: http://members.aye.net/~mikewhy/rape.html (I'd repost it here, but it's several screens long.) /nad ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:11:14 -0700 From: Megasus Subject: Re: Cooling on TVaB Danny.Weddup wrote: > Hi, > I *DO* realise that Tori isn't speaking literally (I'm not that dumb), > I just wondered if anyone could enlighten me as to exactly what she means. I > don't mean to sound bitchy or anything but your e-mail (Gus) was kind of > patronising. I think all she means is that she prefers playing it live.. and that it just wouldn't have worked well on an album. I haven't even heard a studio version of it.. I've heard the version from sessions and the one on TVAB.. and I think they're both lovely. Maybe she feels that it sounds better live, so she didn't want it on an album. Or maybe she was on something, and the song actually *did* tell her to fuck off. ;) - -- ^_~Megasus~_^ http://members.xoom.com/Megasus/ ICQ# 14241089 "Just when you escape, you have yourself to fear.." -Tori Amos ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:02:17 -0700 From: Megasus Subject: Re: Datura The Great Goddess Jolie wrote: > you knwo while drugs are all well and good, i have found that i find the > previous comment that Datura can only be appreciated by drug takers QUITE > offensive. i'm not too fond of this song...no(it may change eventually but > right now i'd much rather sit and listen to the live purple people), but i > really doubt tori sat down and went....HEY....YOU KNOW WHAT....I'M GONNA > WRITE A SONG only FOR THE PPL WHO TAKE DRUGS. SCREW THE REST OF MY > FANS..... I didn't really appreciate that comment either... because I'm on the obverse. I enjoy the song, and I've never touched a drug (other than prescription, of course) in my life. So please don't say "Only somebody on drugs could appreciate it" because I like it.. and I'm not high. If you don't like the song, that's your business, but that doesn't mean you should stereotype the people who do like it..... :) And I'm not trying to start or continue an argument.. just saying that we don't all have to be drug users to enjoy a song... and in the words of Tori "I believe in peace" ... so no wars here. Just opinion. ;) - -- ^_~Megasus~_^ http://members.xoom.com/Megasus/ ICQ# 14241089 "Just when you escape, you have yourself to fear.." -Tori Amos ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 02:23:48 GMT From: "Wake UpNeo" Subject: KROQ site FINALLY has Breakfast stuff up (FOR REALS) Hi guys; I'm so sorry for the past mis-information. KROQ really *did* announce it in a radio promo tho, "missed the Breakfast with Tori and Alanis ? See and hear what happened on the KROQ site NOW !" *sigh* Not once but *twice* I heard it over the past weekend. I was sooo exhausted that nite, it was the end of a long and very bad day. I actually got out of bed upon hearing that announcement, and rebooted just to post it... no energy left to go see exactly what was on the site. But hey they're the largest radio station in L.A., should be able to go by their promo-- right ?! Egad. Anyway, I emailed Kevin about all that, but no reply. So I just checked the KROQ site, and the Breakfast *is* up now-- but as far as seeing *and* hearing what happened, the promo's still inaccurate. Cos if you click under "Kevin and Bean" "this week" in the left column, they have two interview snippets from Alanis and two from Tori, from the Breakfast show, but that's all I could find... But at least it's something ! And I'll never again post quick news without checking it out *firsthand*... very sorry. Go check it out now tho... for whatever it's worth.... not much is up. http://www.kroq.com K. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 01:56:00 GMT From: "Wake UpNeo" Subject: Happy Workers Live//Where is Canaan ? " I don't think I have ever heard of her playing that live (if someone has, please let me know), and I guess that's the reason. love, emily " Hi Emily ! Well-- since you asked-- she's played it live, during the Under the Pink tour I think-- in fact it's on a lot of 'boots' I notice... Anyway. I think I even heard her play this at the Pantages, altho at the time I didn't know for sure what it was so can't say 100 %. In any case, she's played it live, tho not for a while far as I know. PS) krisis... (There was no signature) Well written, intelligent review ! Actually enjoyed reading it, and I scroll past most. (I can't write reviews of music that go beyond 'cool' or 'ugh' myself, so, no 'dis' guys) Altho I don't agree with all of its opinions, but that's beside the point. Peace, K. Oh !! PS) Almost forgot. I actually love the "Dividing Canaan" part of "Datura". Just when u think the song's over... it's a surprise, kinda like the last bit of "Yes, Anastasia". Also, if I ran with the 'get out of my garden' theme, Tori isn't only saying "don't throw me out of the Garden (of Eden)" she goes one step further: "get out of MY garden" ! *heehee* Gotta love 'er. I interpret all that as, she is reclaiming the garden of Eden, or, paradise, where she does what *she* thinks is right, in this song. Reclaiming vision quests and the flower of paradise... perhaps, along with all the other ways ? In any case, it's *her* garden, *she* decides.... That's a clunky way of saying an idea I can't quite put into words. Then, the 'dividing Canaan' part makes more sense too, cos, it was a holy land. A solace, a refuge (wasn't it ?). My question is: does anyone remember just what Canaan is ? Was it where Cain went after killing Abel, or was that the land of Nod ? Or was it the promised land Moses sought ? Or... ? I can't quite remember. I'm a Christian, but came to it on my own; no Bible classes; I'm no scholar. I just believe in the basic peaceful tenets of the things Jesus said. To put it succinctly. Anyway, I feel like a dunce for asking, but what is Canaan exactly ? Was it the promised land ? I think coming after the 'garden' part of the song, where she lists flowers in paradise, (IMHO) she is saying that to separate the spirit is to divide Canaan (and I like the slow repetitious way she says it, sounds like a requiem) .... Any thoughts ? K. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 01:31:47 GMT From: "Wake UpNeo" Subject: Deadly Datura OK I just had to pipe up on this one: The debate surrounding: " Tori has talked about using datura with a South-American shaman as the inspiration behind Father Lucifer.  Does anyone know if the other plants listed have a similiar hallicinogenic properties or what there signifigance might be??>> I thought that tori did ayahuasca and that was where father lucifer came from. am I confused? hrmmm.... " On the Roseanne show, Tori did indeed say that with a shaman's help (note well, Tori had an expert guide, as ANY wild hallucinogen, or bought one either, can be very tricky and dangerous) she took *ayahuasca* and "saw that Lucifer is a woman, and she wears white and drives an ice cream truck". It wasn't a trick of tv editing either, cos I was lucky enuf to be in the audience, and I heard it wit' my own two earsies. ;o) Now I'm not trying to say that means she didn't also take datura on that trip (no pun intended) or whatever. I have no idea. But as far as I know, Tori's never spoken publicly about having taken datura. Just written the song... And now I have to shout a bit. For those who may wanna gallop off to wherever Tori seems to have been.... a warning about datura !! IT IS LETHAL. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. UNLESS YOU HAVE ACCESS TO A COMPLETE EXPERT AND EVEN THEN YOU COULD STILL DIE IF YOU TOOK IT. If Tori's taken Datura, she has the money to fly anywhere in the world for the most aged and knowledgable shaman. That is worlds away from someone on the corner who says "oh yeh sure I know all about it" or from going out and plucking it on your own and eating it or whatever. PLEASE, it would be so tragic if someone tried this plant and DIED just cos they wanted to experience the 'datura' trip. =( It is, I believe, of the 'deadly nightshade' family. In any case it easily, and usually, leads to total liver and kidney failure. In other words, DEATH. Please, people, don't try this... unless you can find the same shaman up in the hills of the Andes or whatever, that Tori did... which isn't friggin likely. If ya gotta trip, anything but this one. As to the other plants in the song, I don't think they're hallucinogenic. I think it's a Garden of Eden motif. All that said, I'm pretty anti-drug at least as things currently are. In most cases ya just dunno what the dosage is you're getting or what's really in it etc. And it's still illegal and a highly murderous trade, which to me, means blood is on all of it. I'm not speaking of finding a shaman who's grown it with the utmost care (again, NOT the guy on the corner !), and conducts vision quests in his tribe (it should really be like a religious experience, used with utmost care and respect, *if done at all*)... but that's just my own view. All I wanna stress is, PLEASE do not go out and take Datura because it is DEADLY. Sincerely, K. who doesn't even take aspirin, and loves the song anyway..... ;o) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:32:11 -0500 From: Sara Hansen Subject: Lazy, hazy meaning First off, let me say all of you that figured out "Josephine" was about Napoleon... brilliant. I would have never figured that one out. Heather, your post especially was beautiful. I imagined Moscow the way you said it, and you're right--I'll probably never hear the song the same way again. Now then. This Spring Haze business. The JFK, Jr. tragedy happened in late July, right? Now, I may be completely wrong, but don't you think the songs were pretty much done being written before then? I mean, we knew we were getting new material way back when. Am I right? Can I get a witness? But maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about. Oh yeah, I also agree that the drowning is too literal--it would be mean in wake of the deaths. So here's my teen-angst-y interpretation: I think it's about a crush. Hear me out, now. I always manage to become smitten in the springtime. It's just right somehow, to have a crush then. I can eye a guy all winter, and once the birds come out and the flowers bloom, it becomes intense in a matter of days. It happened this year, and the year before that, and the year before that. It must be hormonal. I think the song is along the lines of Caught A Lite Sneeze. "I know it's just a spring haze, but I don't much like the looks of it." The spring haze is the feeling that's stirring about inside her. She's saying she knows her feelings are due only to the season; It's happened before, it'll happen again. No big deal. (Hence the "lite sneeze" similarity.) But she doesn't like the looks of it--this is a bit more involved. She'll get into trouble. You see, this is deeper--this sneeze is like a crush that knows about it. But they never really talk about it, they sort of dance around the issue at hand ("all we do is circle it"). It's as though they both acknowledge what's going on but refuse to do something about it. "You say we'll never get there." He's maybe sending signals that it isn't going to work? I haven't completely developed this. Hehe. The "waiting on Sunday to drown" could be so many things. I know when I think of it, I think of when I would want to talk to my crush (the biggest crush ever, it literally crushed at times) last spring, and I'd be all worried about it. I'd go to talk to him, and... I'd be nervous, and happy, but... in a way, it was like approaching the guillotine. Of course, that's just me, and Tori didn't know that when she wrote it. :o) But it could be that she knows this is all coming to a head, it's now or never, and she's just so tensed up for it. She's facing what she knows is coming. "Why does it always end up like this?" Maybe she either wanted really badly for it to work out, or she just wanted to be friends. But now she's stuck in this middle ground, and it's all too familiar. It's happened before this way. There. Can you tell I'm sixteen? I don't know if that's really a very accurate interpretation, but it's mine, so there. Dissenters, concurrers, respond! I need feedback! In case any of you are curious, my crush went away to college, and we talk online a lot now, and we're friends, and it's cool. It's all behind me. Sort of. Still hurts sometimes. Now, somehow, I've gotten myself under an autumn haze with a boy that sends me at least ten mixed signals every day and confuses the hell out of me. Don't they all? *sigh* So yeah. My interpretation. Love me or leave me high, Sara xoxoxo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 02:46:40 GMT From: "Wake UpNeo" Subject: if she says she was, then she was. period. Oh my gosh does this open up a whole can of worms. But here goes: Sarah recently asked: " hey guys, i have a question. was tori amos actually raped, or was it an attempted rape with her getting away? i've gotten both stories and im confused. heh. thank you :) sarah " **** Wow. Not sure why you wanna know this ? (And not sure why I'm trying to provide an answer ?) But, Tori's never gone into the full details of her ordeal. But here you get into semantics. What do you, Sarah, consider rape ? If it's being abducted against your will, and forced into actions against your will, then we know that much has happened. Tori's said so. She's also said that some of the lyrics in Me and a Gun are hm, what's the word, well some are something else than the *exact* events. But do we really need to know exactly what happened ? We know that after a performance in Tori's early days in L.A., a man who Tori peripherally knew as the friend of a friend said he needed a ride. Tori, being trusting as many of us are especially at that age, offered one. >From there he abducted her with a weapon (yes I've read in one place more detail but not going into it-- I wish I hadn't read it myself) and forced her into things against her will. I don't know what things, and I don't want to know. I don't think any of us need to know. Does it matter ? Rape is rape. Being forced into things against your will is rape, and it's crushing to the soul, whether it involves action A,B, or C. That's my opinion anyway. Or do you think the founder of RAINN would make things up ?! Not sure what you're getting at here... but I'm a bit touchy on the subject. She "got away" in one sense: obviously and thank God she did. *She is still here to tell about it*. And she's gone on to help and inspire countless others after what could have absolutely crushed her (that's what the rapist-- actually a form of terrorism in my book, using 'sex'-- intends after all isn't it ?). Do we really need to know what happened or quantify it in any way ? It was a horrible experience that much is clear. Nothing personal Sarah; I just have strong opinions on this subject, okay ? Thanks for listening. K. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V4 #292 *************************************