From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V4 #134 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Sunday, May 9 1999 Volume 04 : Number 134 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Matthew Perry, Tori fan [KNHoppe@aol.com] Re: Matthew Perry, Tori fan [Beth Coulter ] Re: Xmas album [Solstice92@aol.com] Re: flying Dutchman [Richard Handal ] Learn To Fly [Tripp Gwyn ] Re: flying Dutchman ["Dennis Snelders" ] Re: Matthew Perry, Tori fan [XXXPandora@aol.com] Re: Not the Red Baron ["Alan Bryce" ] Re: Matthew Perry, Tori fan [Beth Coulter ] Re: Learn To Fly ["Lori A Near" ] Re: flying Dutchman [XXXPandora@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 00:26:52 EDT From: KNHoppe@aol.com Subject: Re: Matthew Perry, Tori fan In a message dated 5/7/99 9:18:31 PM, Thisbe5716@aol.com writes: << This isn't EXACTLY related to your question, but I saw a rerun of "ER" about a week ago, and during one of the scenes Tori was playing in the background. It was the episode when Dr. Corday and Dr. Benton are trying to hook up, but he cancels their date. She ends up inviting a couple girlfriends to her house, and when they are sitting around talking "Crucify" (I think) is playing in the background. Just thought I would share! Bye for now. Amy >> I just saw that episode tonight, and screamed out in front of my friends... "THAT"S TORI IN THE BACKGROUND..." to which they all looked at me like I was insane... they aren't big Tori fans... Anyways, I just thought it was awesome to hear them play Crucify at a lil' girly get together... - -Noelle- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 00:43:18 -0400 From: Beth Coulter Subject: Re: Matthew Perry, Tori fan At 11:17 PM 5/6/99 EDT, Thisbe5716@aol.com wrote: >This isn't EXACTLY related to your question, but I saw a rerun of "ER" about >a week ago, and during one of the scenes Tori was playing in the background. >It was the episode when Dr. Corday and Dr. Benton are trying to hook up, but >he cancels their date. She ends up inviting a couple girlfriends to her >house, and when they are sitting around talking "Crucify" (I think) is >playing in the background. Just thought I would share! Bye for now. > A Toriphile was working on the crew of ER and convinced the director that "Crucify" was the perfect song for a "girls night in". And back to famous Toriphiles: Roseanne played Under the Pink so often and so loud during the breaks in taping her sitcom that Martin Mull made an on the air wisecrack. Roseanne was in bed depressed and Martin suggests that they "play really obnoxious music to make her come out, like that Tori Amos". Toriphiles were outraged at the time, till it was revealed that Roseanne was a *huge* toriphile. Hey, I can relate. Pink really helped me through my beginning of treatment for multiplicity. She was about that stage in her therapy then also. What? someone doesn't know that Roseanne claims to be a multiple? Well, she does. She's just learned to keep her mouth shut better around tabloid and tv reporters. Fairy Blessings, Bethey I'm OK when everything's not OK cause it's the Fairies Revenge they say and I have always been a Fairy *************************************************************** *~**Fairy Blessings**~* ~~ tori trades and really deep thoughts~ a proud member of the Tori Traders Ring updated at least monthly http://www.angelfire.com/pa/bethey/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 10:22:47 EDT From: Solstice92@aol.com Subject: Re: Xmas album i would love it if she did carol of the bells. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 02:58:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Handal Subject: Re: flying Dutchman Erin Lynch said: > I'm not sure about this one, but I believe that the Red Baron was a > pilot during WW II, perhaps English, who was famous for shooting down > a lot of Nazi planes. You were on the right track Erin, but actually, Baron von Richtofen was a German flying ace in World War I. There is a definitive bio entry for him including a photo at-- http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/germany/richtho1.html There are photos of his grave at-- http://www.findagrave.com/pictures/4333.html (One friend of mine here especially will find that interesting, I'm sure. The rest of you won't care.) A fun connection between the Red Baron and Tori would be found at this URL-- http://ieng9.ucsd.edu/~dsletten/albums/II.html I doubt she had any idea of that, however. (The Red Baron's photo on the cover of Led Zeppelin II.) > The Red Baron was also an alter-ego of Snoopy from Charlie Brown (you > know when he used to wear his little aviator hat and fly around in > the red plane?) Erin, I'm afraid you got this a bit confused, too. But that's okay. Don't worry about it. This stuff is of little consequence. :-) Snoopy used to fantasize about being in dogfights *against* the Red Baron, and there was even a hit song by a U.S. band The Royal Guardsmen titled "Snoopy Vs. the Red Baron." It was popular when Tori was three-years-old though, so if it influenced her in the writing of Not the Red Baron it must have been from having gotten into her young psyche and remaining poised for nearly thirty years to come out. Baron was one of those poured-out-of-her-in-the-studio songs, and here once again is the story of its having been recorded, as posted by Marcel Rijs on this list back in November, 1996. Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ___________________________________________________________________ >Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 21:11:14 -0100 >To: precious-things@smoe.org >From: mfgr@bart.nl (Marcel F G Rijs) >Subject: Re: Not the Red Baron >Sender: owner-precious-things@smoe.org Hi, >From: Will Nunn >Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 07:26:52 -0500 >Subject: Re: Not the Red Baron > >>Maybe you guys can help me?!?! In "Not the Red Baron" what does the guy >>in the begining say to Tori? It really bothers me I can't understand him. > >I've always wondered about it too. The extent of my knowledge is that there >is not actually a person talking to Tori (that we can hear) but that there >is a recording of two dutch pilots speaking (in dutch). Tori seems to be >talking to someone in the background about the recording (Tori says: "What >Language?" Person who we can't hear suggests something and then Tori says >"No, Dutch."). Has anyone managed to translate the tape or at least figure >out what it is generally about? > > Will It's better than that. When Tori performed live in Den Haag in March this year I managed to speak to Marcel van Limbeek, who assisted in the recording of the CD. The story is as follows: during the recording of the CD, "Red baron" was one of those one-take tracks. They were actually testing a new mike, as an other one had broken down. Marcel and Rob were talking about technical stuff through walkie-talkies. (Are they called that where you live?) They were just discussing the sound level and the compression or something like that. Somehow, Tori picked up the talking in her headphones and asked what language they were using. Marcel replied "Dutch", and asked if they should stop talking. Tori motioned to them to go on, however, and Marcel asked if they should talk in English. Tori answers: "No, Dutch", which is what you hear on the recording. The talking does _sound like_ pilots, but that's just what inspired Tori to the lyrics. "Not the Red Baron" was recorded in one take. I hope this clears up the confusion about this particular question!! Greetings, ** Marcel F G Rijs - "Conan the librarian" - Den Haag - The Netherlands (EUROPE) ** Internet: mfgr@bart.nl - WWW: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/marcel ** JOIN THE KIM WILDE MAILING LIST: Send a subscribe message to mfgr@bart.nl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 10:21:14 -0400 From: Tripp Gwyn Subject: Learn To Fly Somone on the DENT forum just mentioned an unreleased Tori song titled LEARN TO FLY. Does anyone know anything about this song? It's the only unreleased B-side I haven't heard of. Tripp Gwyn tgwyn@infoave.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 01:13:30 PDT From: "Dennis Snelders" Subject: Re: flying Dutchman Megasus© wrote: > > After reading the posts about the flying dutchman stories, I was >wondering > > if one of my favorite Tori songs (Not the Red Baron) relates at all to >this > > story. > >I was kind of wondering the same thing.. because at the beginning of "Not >the >Red Baron" Tori is like.. speaking to somebody and says something.. and >then >says.. "No, Dutch.." I didn't catch the whole thing, but when "Flying >Dutchmen" >was brought up.. that's the first thing I thought of.. since the Red Baron >was a >pilot.. :) So are the songs related? I haven't heard Flying Dutchmen.... >(yet) I don't think the songs are related at all. A few years ago, when BfP was just released, Marcel FG Rijs posted this to the precious things mailing list: (I saved it, that's why I still have it) "I managed to speak to Marcel van Limbeek, who assisted in the recording of the CD. The story is as follows: during the recording of the CD, "Red baron" was one of those one-take tracks. They were actually testing a new mike, as an other one had broken down. Marcel and Rob were talking about technical stuff through walkie-talkies. They were just discussing the sound level and the compression or something like that. Somehow, Tori picked up the talking in her headphones and asked what language they were using. Marcel replied "Dutch", and asked if they should stop talking. Tori motioned to them to go on, however, and Marcel asked if they should talk in English. Tori answers: "No, Dutch", which is what you hear on the recording.The talking does _sound like_ pilots, but that's just what inspired Tori to the lyrics. "Not the Red Baron" was recorded in one take." Being Dutch, I have many times tried to understand what exactly the pilots are saying by listening really close, you know just for fun. But the voices are most of the time too soft to distinguish words, and at some points when the music gets softer you can only decipher meaningless words. Besides, Flying Dutchman I think doesn't have anything to do with it. If you haven't heard the song, you only have to look at the lyrics. It's I think about Tori's youth, and people not believing in her or something like that (sorry if i'm wrong, I'm bad at song interpretations) but it certainly isn't linked to Not the Red Baron. At least that's what I think. Dennis dsnelders@geocities.com improbus17@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/lot/1017/littleamsterdam.html ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 17:23:52 EDT From: XXXPandora@aol.com Subject: Re: Matthew Perry, Tori fan In a message dated 5/8/1999 12:59:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, betheqt@voicenet.com writes: << till it was revealed that Roseanne was a *huge* toriphile. >> then why was she so stupid and mean to tori during her interview a few months ago?? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 18:53:14 +0100 From: "Alan Bryce" Subject: Re: Not the Red Baron I missed the start of the posts concerning this song, but its interesting you should mention that the song is about AIDS. Very recently, I was listening to BFP while falling asleep, and it just then occured to me that the song might be about AIDS... I think the'prettiest red ribbons' done it. Just thought you might like to know, ~Al. Interestingly enough, I just posted a message that made reference to "Not the Red Baron" on the Diamanda Galás and the Ecto mailinglists three days ago that sparked a fairly lengthy discussion that hasn't ended yet... in it, a man was collecting songs that were about AIDS, and he counted "Not the Red Baron" among them... and at the time, I thought it strange, seeing as how I had never read the song in such a way... but, after listening to it a few times again, I can see it much more clearly... "another pilot down" and "hollow heart" and "red ribbons", and the denial of "Not" and "not" and "not", it's like Tori's (or the speaker of the song's) shock at whomever it was that died... it's like, "No, not him, not him too..." That's actually a very interesting way of looking at the song, and it throws a few new thematic issues into the whole Boys for Pele album. FTY-ingly yours, ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 18:30:45 -0400 From: Beth Coulter Subject: Re: Matthew Perry, Tori fan At 05:23 PM 5/8/99 EDT, XXXPandora@aol.com wrote: ><< till it was revealed that > Roseanne was a *huge* toriphile. >> > >then why was she so stupid and mean to tori during her interview a few months >ago?? > She was stupid and in awe. She wasn't trying to be mean, but Tori was talking way over her head (Roseanne ain't the sharpest pencil in the box, duh). Roseanne tried to joke it off and it fell flat. And a huge Toriphile doesn't necessarily mean that you like the whole Tori experience. Some huge Toriphiles are in it just for the music. Imagine that! Liking someone only for the music they produce, and not really caring about their personal phylosiphy(sp???). At any rate, Roseanne really liked Under the Pink and listened to it obsessively. This was in a TV Guide article at the heighth of Roseanne's career, and in a "behind the scenes" look/interview, Tori and Pink were mentioned as well as it being played full volume for days on end. Fairy Blessings, Bethey I'm OK when everything's not OK cause it's the Fairies Revenge they say and I have always been a Fairy *************************************************************** *~**Fairy Blessings**~* ~~ tori trades and really deep thoughts~ a proud member of the Tori Traders Ring updated at least monthly http://www.angelfire.com/pa/bethey/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 13:21:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lori A Near" Subject: Re: Learn To Fly Taken from the Collectibles book page 4 - In late 1990 Tori came back to Atlantic Records with a 10-track demo tape, several years in the making, that would later become the the essence of Littel Earthquakes and its subsequent Bsides. The track listing consisted of Russia (later to become take to the Sky), Mary, Crucify, Happy Phantom, Leather, Winter, Sweet Dreams, Song for Eric, Learn to Fly and Flying Dutchman. After the commercial failure of Y Kant Tori Read, Tori had taken some time off to re0invent herself and in the process dropped the band and got back in touch withe her genuine passion - the piano. Many of tehse songs are different from the released versions. Some are longer, some are mixed differently, many have different lyrics. Winter, for example, has percussion and tamourine accompanying it throughout. Flying Dutchman is warmer and the vocals are far more pronounced than the later version. Learn to Fly has still to see a release anywhere. __________ I dont know if Learn to Fly has since morphed into another song, or not, but this is all the information I have ever found on it :) ~~loria > > > Somone on the DENT forum just mentioned an unreleased Tori song titled > LEARN TO FLY. > > Does anyone know anything about this song? It's the only unreleased B-side > I haven't heard of. > > Tripp Gwyn > tgwyn@infoave.net > - -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lori Ann Near nearlori@pilot.msu.edu ...thoughts... a web site inspired by and cataloguing Tori Amos http://www.msu.edu/~nearlori/toriamos.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 17:16:33 EDT From: XXXPandora@aol.com Subject: Re: flying Dutchman In a message dated 5/8/1999 12:18:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, megasus@geocities.com writes: << I was kind of wondering the same thing.. because at the beginning of "Not the Red Baron" Tori is like.. speaking to somebody and says something.. and then says.. "No, Dutch.." I didn't catch the whole thing, but when "Flying Dutchmen" was brought up.. that's the first thing I thought of.. since the Red Baron was a pilot.. :) So are the songs related? I haven't heard Flying Dutchmen.... (yet) >> Well the legend Flying Dutchman refers to ships ... not planes so its not really related to the red baron. The Dutch thing that Tori says at the beginning of not the red baron was her talking to the producers/engineers (whatever they are) -- they were talking in dutch -- she asked them what language they were talking in - they said dutch, do you want us to speak in english and to that she replied No, dutch and then was inspired and played not the red baron. My boyfriend (who also told you about compression) will now tell you about the Red Baron ... another one of his passions. He should be on this list, shouldn't he?? The Red Baron was Manfred von Richtofen, a German pilot during WW1 (1914-1918). He had the most kills during the first world war by far, about 105 confirmed and many more unconfirmed. There is a legend that says that there was an order to the pilots to paint their planes in a color that would be camouflaged and instead of that - the red baron painted his plane bright red because he thought it was ungentleman-like to sneak up on people and besides he didn't even need to sneak up on people becasue he was such a bad ass. When he got his own squadron he recruited the best pilots from all other squadrons including his brother Lothar (who survived the war) -- most members of this squadron became famous aces. They all painted their planes with crazy paint jobs to differentiate themselves .. they were extremely feared by other pilots who would simply turn around if they saw them coming without even trying to fight and became known as the flying circus. Later on the baron changed his plane to the Fokker tri-plane which became his trademark plane. His actual nickname (in germany) was The Red Devil .. he was known as the red baron because he was a baron and in the west it was just shortened to that. He was so respected by everyone involved in the war (allies and enemies alike) that when he was killed (it remains to this day a subject of great debate how he was killed) behind enemy lines in 1917 that the English gave him a full military burial with honors and everything, they dropped a wreath on his home air base - just as if he was one of them. An ace is someone who has 5 confirmed kills. In the early days of the war - he would have a silver trophy made for each one ... he would also after shooting down a plane, land and somehow take a piece of the plane (like the insignia) as a momento. As the war progressed he stopped doing this and became depressed because of his position (killing people) and became a loner whose best friend was a dog. If there was an inexperienced pilot that he was fighting, after disabling them he would let them go. He didn't want to be a hero ... although he enjoyed flying in the beginning. It is important to remember that this was an era wher eplanes were maade of canvas and wood, the average life expentancy of a pilot was 2 weeks or 20 hours in flight and where the planes (at first) were so unreliable that alot of the pilot deaths were accidents not in battle. Besides the kills, the reason he is so famous is because of his attiitude, he was honorable, gallant -- if he captured an enemy soldier he would treat him like a king. And the snoopy thing - snoopy always imagined himself flying against the red baron, not as the red baron. I hope this helps... kisses, joanne and her smart ass boyfriend Omar :) ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V4 #134 *************************************