From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V4 #76 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Tuesday, March 16 1999 Volume 04 : Number 076 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: is bfp everyones least fav? ["Plain Jane" ] Re: My "Courtney is a killer" collection [Margaret ] Re: Tori Amos, MTV, and musical elitism [Richard Handal ] Re: My "Courtney is a killer" collection [Frederica Rose ] Re: Tori Amos on TRL [PeaCeGrLy2@aol.com] More Tori Story anyone??? [Jethro1980@aol.com] Re: i need help!! [Nadyne Mielke ] Re: My "Courtney is a killer" collection [becky ] Re: Tori Amos on TRL [Nadyne Mielke ] schaubie pen- help! (terminology freaks only) [Ray ] Re: question about this guy and his web page [Nadyne Mielke ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:53:31 EST From: "Plain Jane" Subject: Re: is bfp everyones least fav? erm. bfp isn't my least favorite. infact it's my favorite. i mean i'll always say utp is my favorite 'cause it was the first one i fell in love with. but i listen to bfp way more than i listen to utp. anyways blah. bye. barb. ><learn to appreciate it more. :)>> > >BfP was definitely my least favorite Tori album too. Then, one day, I threw it >in my computer while I was working and hit "random" play. It was like a >completely different album! I know it sounds stupid, but try listening to it >out of order. I'll bet it will make a difference!>> > >ok little earthquakes is definitely toris most important album....... >but i think that bfp is her best work...it is raw.powerful.emotional....and >wonderful in every way.thoughts?rachel > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:00:02 -0500 From: Margaret Subject: Re: My "Courtney is a killer" collection Tori's take on Courtney and PW For the record On supposed Courtney and PW references: It's about my own experience, I've never met Courtney Love. It's based on that part of myself that's Lady Macbeth, and if you have any Lady Macbeth in yourself, whether you're Andy or Tori, that song can be about you. On the song: That's my cornerstone song, my Lady Macbeth. It's my desire to be king, to have what the big boys have, and giving up my femininity and vulnerability to taste it. later margaret At 10:13 PM 3/14/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Hi. > >Interesting that the Courtney issue was brought up again because I had a >thought over spring break. Tori has really only performed "Professional >Widow" a few times on tour. It's a rarity. I viewed "Kurt and Courtney: A >Documentary" and Courtney is known for threatening people when they cross >into her world in a way that she doesn't like. Do you think that Tori is >scared to air the song? I can see Courtney bitching her out over the phone >because we all know her feeling towards our girl. > >Just an idea - a epiphany, if you will . . . > >becky > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:03:01 CST From: "Hanna Paulus" Subject: Re: is bfp everyones least fav? Talulagrl1@aol.com wrote: >but i think that bfp is her best work...it is raw.powerful.emotional. I agree with you, definately. BfP happens to be my favourite, probably because I love all her CD's, but since it is the longest...you know...that changes things. BfP, it seems, is the album where she just lets everything go. LE definately, was a total break through album for her because she was finally being honest with herself--(after YKTR) and she let herself really feel again and express it creatively...which she continually does throughout all her albums. BfP I think shows a lot of maturity and really a different side of her. All of her albums really allow us to see into her, and she's telling us the truth in them, without neccessariyl saying everything she knows. I really respect that because there is a difference between telling the truth...and just tellig everything...she lets us know so much about her through her songs, that she probably hasn't told many other people in other forms and I respect that because she is letting us see so much of her without giving it all away. Love, Hanna ********************************************************************************** Hanna Paulus "And I know the biggest crime h1500@hotmail.com is just to through up your ICQ:14630297 hands--say this has nothing to do with me, I just want to live "A restaurant that as comfortably as I can"--Ani D never has to close-- Breakfast every hour, it could save the World..."--TA ********************************************************************************** Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:35:25 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Handal Subject: Re: Tori Amos, MTV, and musical elitism Lissa said: > Really, this is my view on it... MTV does NOT hate Tori. I usually *try* not to be too pedantic, but I'll dip into that well for a moment. TV and radio stations both have the same goal--that people watch and/or listen. They are going to do anything they can so people who tune in don't change the station. Tori is a strong flavor. Some people love her, others cringe when they hear her voice even for a second and change the channel. I doubt this is gonna change anytime soon. Radio and TV stations often have focus groups help determine their content. They might rate songs from 1 to 5, with 5 being extremely positive and 1 being extremely negative. They don't want to play anything that gets a lot of 1s, even if they get a lot of 5s as well. Folks are gonna tune out if they hate someone that much. They want to play artists and songs that get lots of 3s in focus groups. So it seems unlikely that Tori's gonna get much airplay or turn up in heavy rotation on MTV anytime soon. This is a simple result of how business is conducted. End of sermon. > Love Always, > Lissa, who REALLY shouldn't be writing posts at 1:22 AM in the morning... I disagree, Lissa. If they're as wonderful as this one I have to be in favor of it. :-) Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:48:51 -0800 From: Frederica Rose Subject: Re: My "Courtney is a killer" collection i don't think tori is worried at all. i don't think she has anything to worry about. they are both too high profile to do anything stupid, however, i do think that if tori's not playing pw in concert has anything to do with courtney love, it is probably only a matter of discretion, because while we all know her feelings about it, it would be in bad taste for her to broadcast them at every show. also, tori says that she plays songs according to the vibe she gets from the audience, and i doubt "let's go kill courtney love" is one that she picks up on all that often. i know that i love pw, but i definitely have to be in the mood to listen to it. i don't really care about courtney love one way or another, but, that song speaks to me most clearly when i am pissed off about something. love, freddie becky wrote: > Hi. > > Interesting that the Courtney issue was brought up again because I had a > thought over spring break. Tori has really only performed "Professional > Widow" a few times on tour. It's a rarity. I viewed "Kurt and Courtney: A > Documentary" and Courtney is known for threatening people when they cross > into her world in a way that she doesn't like. Do you think that Tori is > scared to air the song? I can see Courtney bitching her out over the phone > because we all know her feeling towards our girl. > > Just an idea - a epiphany, if you will . . . > > becky - -- "When this battle is over, I feel I will survive, In the battle of the dragon, no one walks away..." -Stevie Nicks ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:37:36 EST From: Freque79@aol.com Subject: Re: Tori Amos on TRL I don't think Tori's "target audience" is the folks watching Jay Leno or David Letterman or Conan O'Brien either, but we sure get excited when she's on those shows. Don't tell us to not be hypocritical while the words you, yourself are saying are hypocritical. Mairie http://members.xoom.com/pianoqueen/ Ode to the Piano Queen In a message dated 3/15/99 6:11:39 PM Central Standard Time, firose@ucdavis.edu writes: > i am one of the people who said that i don't think tori should be on trl, > and > before any of you accuse me of being selfish (well, i suppose it's a little > late > for that) i think you should consider that people are entitled to > differences of > opinion. i am very free with tori. if i think one of my friends would like > her, > i sit them down to listen. if someone expresses a genuine interest, i make > them a > tape. i am certainly not selfish. however, i think we should all recognize > that > tori, while she has a huge fan base, speaks to a very specific group of > people. > there are only so many people who care to listen to her. she is mainstream > enough > that most people into pop/rock/alternative or even hip hop, know who she is. > but > many people choose not to listen to her. the majority of the people who > watch trl > choose not to listen to her, or she would be on. (note: i did not say > everyone.) > so why vote to get her on a show for one day, that many of us don't even > watch, > just so she can be listened to by a bunch of people, the majority of whom > are > really not interested and just want to get to the next backstreet boys video. > it > will not increase her popularity. the minority of people watching, who > might have > been open to the experience of discovering her, will discover her in time. > she's > not really underground. who knows, maybe they will run into me and i'll > make them > a tape. but, throwing her onto a show where she clearly is not welcome is > not the > way to increase her popularity. they've shown tori videos on mtv before, > and they > stop abruptly because they are not popular with many people. if you watch > trl and > you want to see tori on there, vote for her, and maybe she'll win, but if > you > don't watch trl, don't vote for her, because it is not you who is watching > the > show. if they want their nsynch, let 'em have it. there's nothing wrong > with > that. it is a vote for a reason. love, freddiep.s. when tori didn't win > the > grammies everyone was happy that she is not mainstreamor whatever, so i don' > t > understand where all this hostility towards those people who think she is > special > and not mainstream is coming from. be careful and make sure you yourself > are not > being hippocritical. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:32:43 -0500 From: skh1 Subject: Re: is bfp everyones least fav? ;) Talulagrl1@aol.com wrote: > < learn to appreciate it more. :)>> for me, Choirgirl is my least fave... ~~kelley ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:45:15 EST From: PeaCeGrLy2@aol.com Subject: Re: Tori Amos on TRL Wow, I've been reading a lot of these TRL posts...and I must say from observing, there are LOTS of different opinions on this issue. I feel kind of mixed on this, but the thing is...i'm not sure that we would be able to vote tori onto TRL if we tried. Look at how many feel she shouldnt be on there... Every vote counts, and if so many feel she doesnt belong on the show, then the rest may have a hard time getting her up there. Just for fun, maybe we could do a little poll to see how many are in favor and how many are not in favor, and someone can tally up the votes and post them. Just a thought. ~~Bubbles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:08:07 EST From: Jethro1980@aol.com Subject: More Tori Story anyone??? My first concert was October 7, 1998. It was the only concert I was able to attend so I went to the meet and greet and gave her my gift and she asked me about it and I was barely able to tell her that I had made it for her. Hehe, I almost cried. I know it sounds funny and all but just hadn't expected this over amount of emotion to come over me when I saw her. I wanted to ask her if she might play Winter, my favorite song. But I couldn't do it. It took me a month to write the letter that I gave to her. I was so excited afterwards cause I had my signed UTP booklet and my camera with pictures. The concert was just awesome. I didn't cry during it, which was a great surprise to me, but I almost cried when she played Silent All These Years and Merman. I was just blown away by the whole experience. Sometimes I think that it was all a dream and no of it had really happened. Of course I have my proof hanging on my wall so I know it did. I just wanted to share my sotry with you all. Also someone said something about people saying they weren't a Toriphiles just because they hadn't been listening to her since 92 or whenever. Well I just have to say my little pieces on this. I became a fan in Dec. of 96 and I think that her music has had as much effect on me as it has had on those people who have been listening to her from the every beginning. The length of time shows dedication but I don't think that anyone is better than anyone or is greater for any reason. Everyone has been touched by Tori's music in some way and they all deserve respect. sorry just had to say my piece. Thanks for reading Sara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:48:49 -0500 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: i need help!! At 01:17 AM 3/15/99 -0500, RowingMan4@aol.com wrote: >a friend of mine is a huge Tori fan, she absolutly adores her. Her birthday >is comming up soon, and nobody really cares about her, except some of her >really close friends (me). I was just wondering if any of you have a way that >i could get in contact with Tori Amos so that i can ask her if i could somehow >get a signed picture of tori for my friend. Any help would be greatly needed >and appreaciated. It is unlikely that you would be able to contact Tori and get an autograph. Right now, your only option is to purchase an autograph on an online auction site, like eBay . That said, I don't really recommend it. Tori gives of her autograph -very- freely, and if you meet her before or after a show, she is (almost) always willing to sign things for her fans. People try to charge a lot of money for her autograph, but IMHO it just isn't worth it. Unlike many celebrities, she gives her autograph to anyone who asks for it, so there's really very little need to pay extra for it. I would get your friend something else for her birthday, and promise to take her to meet Tori the next time she tours -- that way, not only will your friend have Tori's autograph, but she'll have the memory of actually meeting Tori {plus some pictures of the event, if you take a camera!}. /nad ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:56:54 -0500 From: becky Subject: Re: My "Courtney is a killer" collection Hey hey hey . . . let's go . . . Professional Widow (aka Courtney Love) slag pit, stag shit, honey bring it close to my lips yes . . . (this has some blow job connotations. A stag is a male deer.) don't blow those brains yet. . . (Kurt blew his brains out) we gotta be big boy we gotta be big . . . (According to the documentary, Courtney has been said to use rock stars to heighten her own career. She definitely used Kurt in that way. She's saying that he hasn't gotten quite "big enough" for her yet . . . so he's gonna have to wait to kill himself until then.) starfucker just like my Daddy . . . (she doesn't get along with her dad. They're estranged. He's now trying to cash in on her fame by writing books on what a jerk she is.) it runs in the family . . . (She's also a Starfucker. . . Kurt.) rest your shoulders Peaches and Cream . . . (this may be stretching it but have you ever notices what a nice complexion Courtney has?) everywhere a Judas as far as you can see . . . (Jesus thought that Judas loved him best out of all his disciples. Kurt thought Courtney did the same. Judas betrayed Jesus with a kiss. Same with Courtney. But, she basically really thought Kurt should die.) it better be big boy . . . (this could be a reference to Tori being pissed off about Courtney saying Trent Reznor had a small penis.) So, there are my thoughts right now. I tend to think of this song in connection to events that have happened in my personal life but I, personally, like having different meanings and outlooks to songs. That's why I think song interps are valid and should be a part of this list. OK, I'm off my soapbox now. See you later, becky At 06:39 PM 3/15/99 -0600, you wrote: >But I thought Waitress was about Courtney...since she added the extra lyrics >on Sessions(etc..). >And she did Waitress THE MOST on the tour. >I don't see any Courtney in Widow, but perhaps I'm not looking hard >enough... >Any Ears wanna lend a hand (instead of a foot)? > >Matthew > >I like pleasure spiked with pain and music is my aeroplane. > >ICQ# 298707 >mrzebra@fumblers.org >http://surf.to/gotsarah > >Cult of E Membership #138 SouthSide >FuCS/DA exfe96 a+++ Ifte lms/txus r++ ps+++ bs t-- C++ w++ >p1 LF+/*** N++ cd70+ pr+ g- S* x Fa m+ b!/- fc- E rl!@+++ s! > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:00:37 -0500 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: Tori Amos on TRL At 10:20 AM 3/14/99 -0800, Frederica Rose wrote: >i am one of the people who said that i don't think tori should be on trl, and >before any of you accuse me of being selfish (well, i suppose it's a little >late >for that) i think you should consider that people are entitled to >differences of >opinion. i am very free with tori. if i think one of my friends would like >her, >i sit them down to listen. if someone expresses a genuine interest, i make >them a >tape. i am certainly not selfish. No, but "elitist" springs to mind. :) >however, i think we should all recognize >that >tori, while she has a huge fan base, speaks to a very specific group of people. >there are only so many people who care to listen to her. That's true of every artist. No artist is liked across the board, they all have their own core fan base. >she is mainstream >enough >that most people into pop/rock/alternative or even hip hop, know who she is. > but >many people choose not to listen to her. the majority of the people who >watch trl >choose not to listen to her, or she would be on. (note: i did not say >everyone.) Invalid assumption. Someone who hasn't been exposed to her music before haven't particularly chosen not to listen to her, they just don't know who she is. Videos tend to get on shows like this 'cause they're already in MTV's main rotation, so people are seeing them, they know the videos exist, and they've seen it enough to like it. Tori's videos, on the other hand, are only rarely played on MTV -- there's a premier, and that's about it. >so why vote to get her on a show for one day, that many of us don't even watch, >just so she can be listened to by a bunch of people, the majority of whom are >really not interested and just want to get to the next backstreet boys >video. Invalid assumption. Getting her on the show isn't just about showing off her video to someone who hasn't seen it, it's also about making MTV actually play something that's good for a change. >it >will not increase her popularity. the minority of people watching, who >might have >been open to the experience of discovering her, will discover her in time. >she's >not really underground. who knows, maybe they will run into me and i'll >make them >a tape. Invalid assumption. You can't say that they'll discover her in time. If their main way of finding out about new music is MTV and the like, they may well never discover her unless they happen to tune in the one time her video is played on 120 Minutes -- which is pretty bloody unlikely. > but, throwing her onto a show where she clearly is not welcome is >not the >way to increase her popularity. Define "not welcome"? Not welcome by the audience, not welcome by MTV, not welcome because people like you decide you can't share? >they've shown tori videos on mtv before, >and they >stop abruptly because they are not popular with many people. Nope. "Silent All These Years" was a Buzz Clip when it was released, and it got regular airtime. It wasn't on the level of, say, "Smells Like Teen Spirit" {Nirvana's version, not Tori's}, but it was regular airplay. >if you watch >trl and >you want to see tori on there, vote for her, and maybe she'll win, but if you >don't watch trl, don't vote for her, because it is not you who is watching the >show. If you don't watch the show, why bother trying to sway people with your opinion anyway? >when tori didn't win the >grammies everyone was happy that she is not mainstreamor whatever, so i don't >understand where all this hostility towards those people who think she is >special >and not mainstream is coming from. be careful and make sure you yourself >are not >being hippocritical. Not -everyone- was happy she didn't win a Grammy. The people who were saying "yay! no mainstream" are the same elitists who are saying "we're the only ones who should know about Tori, you mere mortals who watch MTV can't know about her 'cause you're just not good enough". I simply don't get it. Why is this assumption that people who watch MTV or like certain bands or something else can't "get" Tori acceptable to so many people here? Tori is not for a few select folks, nor does one have to be properly initiated to become a fan. /nad {surprised and, ultimately, saddened by the attitudes in this thread} ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:22:31 +0000 From: Ray Subject: schaubie pen- help! (terminology freaks only) Hey guys- BfP is out in the car so I hope I've spelled that right, but could someone please tell me what a "schaubie pen" is in reference to Horses? This question has been bothering me and a few friends and it's just an itty bitty detail that we'd like to know. Thanks! - -=Ray=- "Most people would rather be sheep and have company than stand out on their own with antlers on." -Tori Amos "Don't blame it on me, blame it on my wild heart." -Stevie Nicks ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:37:34 -0500 From: cinders blue Subject: really-deep-thoughts archives hey gang, does anyone know of a complete archive of the really-deep-thoughts mailing list? i know about the archive at , but it is missing the first year plus of the list's existance. unfortunately, i'm pretty sure that the archive which used to be at ftp.uwp.edu poofed when the university of wisconsin pulled the plug on that site. *sigh* woj ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:45:17 -0500 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: question about this guy and his web page At 03:36 PM 3/14/99 -0500, Jethro1980@aol.com wrote: > > >I came across this page the other day and wanted to know if this was the guy >that some people on the Tori-boot list were talking about how he was an >unreliable person, etc. The name is Jaymes Bradley Warnock. I would greatly >appreciate any one telling me if this is him. >The page is at: >http://members.aol.com/kalleali/toristori.html That's him. Jaymes has been a huge problem in the online Tori community {amongst others} for -years-. He has sold big-ticket items to people, only to never have them arrive. He's lied about all sorts of things, including: * He said he appeared on YKTR * He said the song "Hotel" is written about him * He claims to be a close personal friend of Tori's * He once "anonymously" wrote Jason, listmeister of this list and the guy who maintains the Tori bootleg discography, and claimed that he found a bootleg that was half Tori and half "this guy named Jaymes Warnock", and said that the stuff of Jaymes's sounded better * He's claimed Tori song lyrics as his own poetry on his webpage {until called on it} And most recently, he claimed to have a copy of Tori's early demos on DAT. Too bad he said they're from the late 70s / early 80s, and DAT wasn't developed until the mid-80s and not in use where Tori and her dad could get ahold of it until the late 80s, eh?0 I could -easily- go on and on. Bottom line: don't believe a word this guy says. Beyond his lies to the Tori online community, he's also: * said he wrote an album with Cyndi Lauper * said he appeared in Scream 2 You get the idea. The pigfucker's a pathological liar. He disappears for awhile, but he keeps coming back. If you've been ripped off by him, go to your post office -immediately- and ask them how to get involved in mail fraud. The post office has an open file on him, started a couple of years ago when he sold what he claimed was an autographed YKTR poster {when it finally arrived, months later, it was a forged autograph on a UtP-era poster}. The post office needs some minimum dollar amount which they haven't quite reached yet, so if you're in that boat, go to the post office! {Which reminds me, any update on that?} /nad ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:27:24 -0500 From: Beth Coulter Subject: Re: tori on mtv and assorted thoughts At 07:31 PM 3/15/99 -0500, Loria wrote: tori isn't potato chips. i dont think anchovies would >like to be served with your common dip. ;) > Then again, your common dip wouldn't like to be served with Tori. ;) Fairy Blessings, Bethey I'm OK when everything's not OK cause it's the Fairies Revenge they say and I have always been a Fairy *************************************************************** *~**Fairy Blessings**~* ~~ tori trades and really deep thoughts~ a proud member of the Tori Traders Ring updated at least monthly http://www.angelfire.com/pa/bethey/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:39:22 -0500 From: Michael Curry Subject: ADMIN: The "Tori and TRL" thread Hi all, After sending through yet another pile of messages about TRL and "elitism" tonight it occurred to me that perhaps we've spent enough bandwidth on the topic. Obviously lots of people have strong opinions one way or the other, but I think that we've already managed to reach the point where the same things are starting to be repeated over and over. Therefore, in an attempt to cool things down a bit (both in the tone of the posts and the amount of them), I'm going to really be limiting which (if any) posts on this topic make it through to the list. If after reading the deluge of posts on the matter you feel that you have something to contribute that hasn't already been said then by all means send it along, but just be forewarned that I'm going to be rather picky about what actually makes it through. Mike precious-things co-owner | Michael Curry / mcurry@io.com / mcurry@smoe.org | | http://www.io.com/~mcurry | | Am I bitter? Do I sound bitter? -- Veda Hille | ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V4 #76 ************************************