From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V4 #44 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Saturday, February 13 1999 Volume 04 : Number 044 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: tori's voice on the sessions interview. [Mikewhy ] 8-17-98 atlanta [PokaDot420@aol.com] Composing and its appreciation [Richard Handal ] Re: Identity Crisis!! [Nadyne Mielke ] Re: not the red interpretation [Serra Angel ] Re: new person here...with a question [Nadyne Mielke ] Re: tori and trent. [Serra Angel ] Re: caught a lite sneeze interp and some questions [Serra Angel Subject: Re: tori's voice on the sessions interview. >i just watched sessions for the first time yesterday, and i thought >tori's performance was awesome, but i was disappointed y the interview. >i really didn't like her interviewer (i know this has been discussed >before), but, more than that... i thought tori sounded really funny. >her speech was really froggy and slurred compared to how she normally >sounds. she sounded like she may have been sick or something and her >voice sounded really tired. at first i thought she was drunk or >something, but her thoughts were too coherent for that. she sounded >kinda bad though. did anyone else notice this? any thoughts or >insight? I noticed this and I think at least part of it may have been because of her microphone or the way she was hooked up to the microphone. It did not sound right to me and it may have amplified any voice problems she was having. Yours in Tori, Mikewhy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. Whitehead mikewhy@iglou.com My Dent In The Tori Amos Net Universe => http://members.aye.net/~mikewhy/toriamos.html "I won't say GoodBye... only see you in the DreamTime. All of us, you, me will have adventures to share alchemy little SHAMEN in training we are never that far From Each other...interdimensional travel Until we meet again Hugs (it's a Bugs life)" Tori's End of Tour Message To The Dent - Nov 30, 1998 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:00:14 EST From: PokaDot420@aol.com Subject: 8-17-98 atlanta hello everybody!! i have a request for anybody that can help me, a couple months ago i made a trade for the 8-17-98 atlanta show, well when i received it, it was missing the second side. i think a couple of these were going around because the person who sent it to me later realized that their copy only had 1 side too. i would appreciate it if somebody with a complete copy of this show i would help me out here, i have a couple other shows i can trade for it! faerie kisses, sara* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 07:35:21 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Handal Subject: Composing and its appreciation Hi, Torifolk: I watched the PJ Harvey episode of Sessions Wednesday night, and the final interview exchange she had with David Byrne was interesting, and reminded me of the idea that Tori says she channels the songs more than composes them, and how there is often not a hard and fast meaning for them on a conscious level. I've attached that exchange below. This all relates to the ideas espoused by Jung and by Joseph Campbell. Song interpretation to me is like dream interpretation. When I remember dreams I usually just shrug and say "Interesting." Somewhere in there, my mind created the dream and the dream exists for its own sake. To me, the dream does its job as a dream, not as an *explanation* of a dream. This is why I feel letting the music roll over one can be a more productive way of getting into a song than verbally deconstructing it. Oh, it makes sense to me to have some conscious understanding of topic, content, etc., I agree with that, but with good songwriting the music is too integral to be separated from the lyrics when deconstructing a song, anyway. I've been on Tori lists for over five years and almost never does anyone include the music in a post which seeks to interpret one of her songs. Tori addressed the idea of critics talking about her lyrics almost entirely at the expense of discussing the music itself in a July 1996 issue of a Vancouver arts paper The Georgia Straight, and she even suggested that most music critics don't know anything about it: [...] But all this fuss is about words, not music. Amos has said she's merely a vessel for capturing whatever divine spirit moves her, but the inspirational component belies her technical accomplishment as a pianist. "In the music press," she says, winding up for the pitch, "people rarely talk about the actual music, because most journalists don't know anything about it, and that's just a fact." Indeed, out of all the arts, music is discussed least for its actual properties; in most hands, even its historical context are vague. Sure, any rock writer (or reader) can spot an early-'70s Joni Mitchell lick, but how many notice the densely chromatic, late-Romantic lyricism, a la Franz Liszt and Alexander Scriabin, that she weaves into her instrumental settings? "People talk about lyrics, hair, attitude--just plain commentary. But rarely is it about what's in the left hand, or about the juxtaposition between the words and the music, or what that brings up in you as a listener. In dance, they actually talk about dance, and in the visual arts, it isn't all about how 'the artist paints with his legs spread.' Finally, you have to figure that people don't talk about music because that isn't the focus of the music industry, which does kinda make you scratch your head." [...] I agree with her about all that, and I will further the notion by saying that most music consumers don't know much about music. But it is not neccessary to know about music to get a lot out of listening to it. I've listened to a huge number of different types of music, but never really studied it, so it's difficult for me to discuss the music itself. I find it entertaining to discuss music, and sometimes even enlightening, but even if I *had* taken music courses and felt capable of really discussing it at a deep level, almost no one on the lists would be able to respond in kind, anyway. Having had a number of conversations over the past year just about Spark and the changing time signatures in it, I know some folks have thought I was a learned fellow on the topic of music, when in fact we covered that stuff in elementary school. I'd be curious to hear what level of music appreciation is being taught these days in schools. I know there have been cutbacks in the States, but has it really been to the extent that kids aren't even taught to keep simple time? (I was in elementary school in the 1960s.) One of my more rambling posts. I'll go quietly, now. Discuss. :-) Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. _____________________________________________________________________ http://www.sessionsatwest54th.com/jan30/INSESS/ARTINV/art1intv.html PJ Harvey Interview [...] DAVID BYRNE: After some time has passed, after you've written something, recorded it, played it, do you ever turn around and then realize what it was you were saying? PJ HARVEY: Definitely. I think that's the case with everything I've ever done. Albums kind of make sense to me two years down the line. It makes such perfect sense, lyrically. I was so confused at the time but some part of me did know and that was there in the words and the music. I think that is so true, I really don't quite understand what's coming out, when it's coming out but you do on reflection. Do you find that's the case too? DAVID BYRNE: Exactly. And I think people expect the artist to know what it is they're doing and I think it's almost the artist's duty not to know what they're doing. PJ HARVEY: Absolutely because I think then, it's coming from the right place. It's just happening and you're letting it happen and it's not a real mental thing that you're having to make happen. You're just allowing this out and you don't understand it at the time. DAVID BYRNE: Yeah. And that's your job in a sense. PJ HARVEY: I totally agree with that. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:55:48 -0500 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: Identity Crisis!! At 03:30 AM 2/10/99 -0500, sex monkey...that funky monkey! wrote: >I bought a LE cd that seems to be imported..but mispriced for 13.99...the cd >is a brown-puke green solid color, the number is "CD 82358" and the tracks >are the same. There is NO mention of Atlantic Records...only of East/West >and Warner Music UK Ltd. The distribution address is for Canada...is this >the Canadian release? The UK release? It's definitely not the US release. >The spine does not have red block letters, it is a black, kind of Times New >Roman font...with east/west at one side and CD 82358 at the other. My >booklet is a little different, but I think they just stapled the pages >together wrong..hmm. Can anyone help me? Is this the UK or Canadian (or >French?) release? Yup, you've got the Canadian release. Atlantic is only in the US, East/West takes care of everything outside our borders. $13.99 is probably the right price to pay for it anyway. It's not out of print, and the last time I was in Canada, I saw it priced at CAD$18, which is actually a little less than US$14.99 with the current exchange rate. /nad ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:27:45 -0600 (CST) From: Serra Angel Subject: Re: not the red interpretation On Thu, 11 Feb 1999 Bobdel123@aol.com wrote: > > not judy g > not jean jean with a hallowed > heart > -- the avergae people don't believe that the famous ones are the ones at fault > for what is happening. > we idolize stars and build them up. > and even the haloed ones are really devils (judy garland) because of what the > did while alive that the average man wasn't aware of -- Judy Garland is a huge gay icon. I don't knwo about Jean Harlow, but I know for sure that there has beena huge following of gay men idolizing Judy and identifying her having to hold in her inner self (A Star is Born) for the sake of show business. > > I can see the screen go > down in the flames > -- the average dead watch their idols and mentors go up in flames. > they see that the whole idea of the famous is a screen like the lives they > fell in love with. > they watch it burn -- > *nod* Also that concept of their OWn lives being like the ones ont he screen... reality sets in, terribly. > with every step with every heel > pointed > -- i am not really sure of what this line means or how it fits. > anyone's thoughts would be accepted -- > This could be a reference to the red shoes in Wizard of Oz.. and possibly drag queens. (I'm not saying this song is only about gay people, only pointing out the imagery). Just my addons :) I think the rest of the interpretation is very good! Kahlan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 17:04:34 -0500 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: new person here...with a question At 11:30 AM 2/11/99 -0800, Nikki Belong wrote: >I've got a question, and I think you guys would be good people to ask. >In the back of All These Years, Tori's biography, there's information >for a fan club, I'm not sure of the name right now, but I was wondering >if anyone knew anything about Tori fan clubs, official or otherwise? I'd >love to join if there are any around...thank you! There are three fanclubs listed in the back of ATY: * Upside Down. Upside Down used to be the official US fanclub {IE recognized by Atlantic and Tori's management}. However, the guy running it started having trouble, and Upside Down died. * Really Deep Thoughts. After Upside Down went belly-up, Really Deep Thoughts [1] became the official US fanzine. You can check them out at . RDT has been bad about getting issues out issues recently (the last one was April 1998, IIRC), but their subscription cost ($17 if you're in the US) is for four issues, not for a set period of time. * Take to the Sky. They're the official UK fanzine. You can subscribe to both RDT and TttS no matter where you are. They're both happy to ship to folks anywhere in the world, as long as the post office will go there. Further information on the fan clubs {as well as all sorts of other nifty info} can be found in the Tori Resources FAQ, available by emailing resources-faq@rmta.org and asking nicely. :) HTH. /nad [1] Not to be confused with the emailing list Really Deep Thoughts (Right Now). They're completely separate entities. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:15:31 -0600 (CST) From: Serra Angel Subject: Re: tori and trent. On Mon, 8 Feb 1999 Talulagrl1@aol.com wrote: > > if you watched storytellers > you heard tori cover hurt in caught a lite sneeze.... > tori said... > "you never hurt > your full of shit. > you never hurt, > you never did" > > ummm i thought that tori and trent wernt friends anymore > but they were ok with each other. > so then why would she say that? I think she's talking about Eric. If not she may not want to publicly slander Trent, but we all know that what comes out in the songs is what's real. She "lied" about Northern Lad being about Mark during the Storytellers thingie (I personally think it's pretty obviously about Eric, but I could be wrong)... so when she discusses the songs at times she is deliberately vague and/or misleading about their meaning, but oftentimes they speak for themselves. For instance, when she babbles about the love affair between Jupiter and the moon being the basis for HJ, and the spirit writing the song, etc etc... I think there are many meanings and roots for al of the songs, but I think the raw emotion being displayed is a reaction to Eric, wholly. And this desperate attempt to reconcile the parting, whether it be as friends, lovers, or "soemthing new". There so much pain and melancholy, it can't be as vague as she makes it sound. And why blame here? Both Mark and Eric are very sensitive about having their private lives smeared all over magazines (hence the line "magazine" in HJ).. but she needs to release her demons somehow. People really should expect her to come out and say "PW is about Coutney Love" or "HJ is about my ex".. itt akes away the mystery and the personal-ness of the work for her. anywa, enough babbling :) Kahlan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:06:33 -0600 (CST) From: Serra Angel Subject: Re: caught a lite sneeze interp and some questions > > toriphiles, I think you're right about the relationship. The lingo used in their VERY careful comments about eachother seems to point in that direction - like Trent saying "I still FEEL the same way about Tori" and saying "some malicious meddling ont he part of Courtney Love" (In the marlin Manson biography he talks about how Trent used to date Courtney then hated her with a passion). I have a feeling that whatever was going on between Trent and Tori, whether it was just a couple of dates, or something more intimate, Courtney would have been extremely jealous (she loves to be competitive, I just read that in an article) and tried to fuck it up. She's very immature compared to Tori. And I mean really, if you were Trent, wouldn't you be just a WEE bit pissed off if you lost a chance with Tori Amos? However, I'm glad nothing developed seriously between the two of them (even if all there was was this deep mutual musical respect). Trent is a very unhealthy individual (again, refer to the MM autobiography... ghastly stories about women being abused and such). Creatively, it seems better that they still have fondness for eachtoher, because it fuels Tori's writing in a positive way to have peers int he business she respects. As for CALS, I think she's refering to this struggle between trying to run out and have a good time and be involved in all these love affairs to get over Eric, and having it being revealed to her that it's not working. Instead of having the flu she's been having lite sneezes.. and it really is showing the LACK of him rather than replacing him (Hey Jupiter is a continuation of this). "Boys on my left side, boys on my right side Boys in the middle and you're not here." Now here's a line I can see being about Trent: "Boys in their dresses and you're not here." we all know how he likes to play with gender. But "their" could be referencing other women too. I love "I need a big loan from the girl zone"... it's like "Oh geez how the hell am I going to get over THIS one? Lend me some strength, girls, will ya?" The "girl zone" may be the songs in this context, especially in light of what she was saying to David Byrne about songs being her outlet and he way of working through things. "I've still got that belle dragging my foot yes" I love this line too, to me it's amazing imagery. She's hiding it well by running of with all these boys, but she's still got that chain and barbell around her ankle keeping her from truly being free - representing her heavy feelings for Eric. Some of the lyrics i don't really understand, like "Right on time, you get closer and closer, etc." I relate more to the emotion in it than anything. "Use that fame, rent your wife and kids today and maybe she will.." maybe she's singing about Courtnry and her betrayal there. That would relate back to CALS being so close to Professional Widow on the album, and PW (has anyone else recongnizes the irony of that? PW? ;)) -- PW could be dealing with the way she thinks Courtney is.. her response, so to speak, to Courtney's slanders. Ultimately I think CALS is about Eric, but certainly Trent could be one of the boys she could be refering to. Kahlan > > okay okay i know we shouldn't be gossiping about tori's love life, but i > have reason to belive that trent reznor was more than just tori's > "friend". i was watching sessions at 54th, and she was playing "caught a > lite sneeze" and she improved (a BEAUTIFUl improv might i add) near the > end of the song "i hurt myself today" (from trent's "hurt") and then > started going off about "no you didnt you lying blah blah blah) and it > was sooo powerful.. then i had an epiphamy (hahah look at me, i cant > spell!) and it was like this... i always thought that caught a lite > sneeze was about eric being not-so-good of a lover. on the interview cd, > tori says it's about "wanting the flu" in a lover and instead "getting a > lite sneeze or a little cough maybe". in other words - whoever shes > singing about wasnt too great in bed. then i thought - well Courtney > Love said in an interview that trent reznor (who she had an affair with) > had this little itty bitty penis and how bad he was sexually, and i > think that's why tori and courtney don't get along. i definatly think > that it has something to do with tori and trent having an affair or > something, and then courtney destroying that relationship. > anyways i have to go to class now, but i wanted to bring this up. does > anybody have any insight to this or any actual statements by tori that > may agree/disagree with this idea? its all kindof jumbled in my head - > a big mystery you know... ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V4 #44 ************************************