From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V3 #52 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Wednesday, February 11 1998 Volume 03 : Number 052 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: My Fave Tori Girls ["Subashini" ] Re: Spacedog Now Campaign!!! [-= Robyn Hode =- ] Re: Spacedog Now Campaign!!! [-= Robyn Hode =- ] space dog, fave girls, etc. [Rachel ] Re: Just because a girl plays piano... [Simon Booth ] Re: February 1996 TV appearances, and my de-lurk [Simon Booth ] Re: Spacedog Now Campaign!!! [Charlie Poole ] Re: women in music [Charlie Poole ] Grey Ears [Beth Coulter ] "Crossing the Line: women in music" [Karen Meyers ] Re: The Big Question? [-= Robyn Hode =- ] L.A. Toriphiles [Dave Woodson ] crossing the line [Dave Woodson ] Re: Spacedog Now Campaign!!! [ChinaDust@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:30:49 +0800 From: "Subashini" Subject: Re: My Fave Tori Girls > Is it just me that really REALLY likes her cover of the imfamous > childrens song, Somewhere over the Rainbow? Nope, it's not just you. I REALLY like it, too. :) BTW, I also love her version of "Smells Like Teen Spirit". Now, I'm not a Nirvana fan, but I loved the way Tori did it. It was just so...elegant. Not that Nirvana isn't :), but it's just that I don't like that type of music. I'll jump on the bandwagon and list my fav songs from each album, because I can never narrow it down to just one. LE-- Tear In Your Hand, Winter, Precious Things, Little Earthquakes UTP-- God, Space Dog, Cornflake Girl, Past The Mission BfP-- CALS, Father Lucifer, Hey Jupiter, Muhammad My Friend Uh-oh, that was one song too many! :) What the heck, I nearly burst a capillary in my brain trying to figure out my fav songs. I think I'm entitled to list 12. :) Subash ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 20:33:27 -1000 From: -= Robyn Hode =- Subject: Re: Spacedog Now Campaign!!! Oops, public Space Dog apology... Sorry, I guess the credit goes directly to you Adia509... Sorry... Or who was it that made that petition suggestion? :) Confused, Scotty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 20:31:28 -1000 From: -= Robyn Hode =- Subject: Re: Spacedog Now Campaign!!! Adia509@aol.com wrote: > > Perhaps we as Spacedog fans should do a worldwide petition via internet and > letters to demand this song to air as a hit. Maybe it should be done around > the time that Tori releases her last single off her upcoming album and have > all the money go to spay and nueter charity programs. And the video should > have Tori fighting space aliens! (Really, I'm serious.) "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Einstein. I had quote that because this is a great idea. So ChinaDust, you really have a good point and lots of creativity. After all, "Silent All These Years" made it as a hit many years later, I don't see why Mr. Microphone wouldn't either. Now, how you you purpose we all do it? Grass roots thing by calling local radio stations? Put it up on reputable Tori web sites and just say that April 1st is "World Wide Space Dog Day"? (I thought April Fools might be the best day for this.) I think instead we would need sometime of major media connection, like on Alpo commercials or through NASA. Anyone have contacts? Ideas? The first one thing that came to mind is to head over to Burbank and talk with Bob Barker (rough rough) and see if they will do a spot on CBS for dog-related stuff. :) Or David Letterman playing the song in the background with Stupid Human or Pet Tricks or something. Scotty - -- _________/{______________________________________________ O)]/////////[ O >--- SQUARE USA: LA and Honolulu Studios ---`-----__ `"""""""""\{======================================================` RPG & Squaresoft Designer ** scotty@sqla.com ** sord@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:18:53 -0600 From: Rachel Subject: space dog, fave girls, etc. ok, ok I know I already posted my fave tori song, but then everyone started doing the song per album, etc. and I figured: what the hell LE: tear in your hand, mother. b-side: here. in my head UTP: Past the Mission, Space dog, yes anastasia b-side: case of you BFP: Talula (tornado mix), Putting the Damage On b-side: putting the damage on (twilight mix)- this mix is the absolute coolest thing ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You guys are geniuses with your idea to release space dog as a single...let's talk tori into it...I mean, wouldn't you think someone that's in contact with her frequently subscribes to this list? I mean out of curiosity if nothing else...here's a message for ya: RELEASE SPACE DOG IT WOULD BE A RADIO HIT AND EVERYONE WOULD BE HAPPPY...the world would be a better place to live-well, maybe not... I've loved space dog ever since on the UTP tour tori spoke before the song and said something like: the ignorant people that think there's nothing out there beyond this world make me angry. :) ok enough rambling and babbling until a later, more coherent post, Rachel ************************************** Maybe I aint used to maybes smashing in a cold room... -Tori Amos http://batwoman.dyn.ml.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:25:08 -0600 (CST) From: Simon Booth Subject: Re: Just because a girl plays piano... At 09:32 AM 2/9/98 EST, you wrote: > I'm getting sick of critics comparing every new female artist with Tori >simply because she plays piano! Talent and spirit are two different thing, and >I feel Fiona Apple and Puala Cole play from different spirits than Tori does. >(I am a fan of all three by the way.) One more thing..., can anybody give me a >good review of Puala Cole's new album? Is it something I should spend my money >on? > > my apologies on this. no offense meant. Simon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:25:15 -0600 (CST) From: Simon Booth Subject: Re: February 1996 TV appearances, and my de-lurk At 11:48 AM 2/9/98 -0500, you wrote: >Simon said: > >> I have on tape Tori's Saturday Night Live and Tonight Show appearances >> from February 1996 but I need to know the exact dates of those >> appearances. > >SNL was on 1/20/96, and The Tonight Show With Jay Leno was on 2/8/96. Thanks for the info- and I can't believe I got the SNL appearance off by a month. > >> bracing for the flames, and the katana is at the ready if I've offended >> anyone. > >Boy, I read through this post three times and I didn't see anything anyone >seemed likely to find flame-worthy in it. Weird. pardon the weirdness then :-) I've gotten slightly skittish over the past few years because of some people's 'discomfort' or hostile reactions when I've gotten emotional or philosophical about something. It has been very difficult to discuss my experiences and changes over of the past few years because so many people want the story without the emotional and philosophical content. So to avoid a 'fight' I keep quiet or toe the 'party line' from others in similar situations. Until I heard Tori for the first time...so amazing to hear her pour so much of herself into her music, and being brave enough to let out so much, not bothered by the possiblity of criticism. Now that is something that inspires me! Not relating on a literal level, but inspired by her strength to do what she does. > >Be seeing you, > >Richard Handal, H.G. enough of my ramblings for now :-) Simon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:50:32 EST From: Quinn024@aol.com Subject: Re: Fave Tori Songs Hey- I was trying not to join in but I must... I just can't control it anymore... My favorite Tori song is Pretty Good Year. This is not only a beautiful song but it has been with me and behind me for a long time... Also it won me front row tickets to her concert. Otherwise here they go: LE -- Tear in your Hand (come on my name is Neil...) B-side -- Flying Dutchman UTP -- Pretty Good Year B-side -- Sister Janet BFP -- Caught A Lite Sneeze B-side -- Graveyard Favorite Live Cover -- She's Leaving Home, Boulder 11/10 I hope that's right, as we all know it changes everyday... Peace, NeilQuinn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 03:27:05 -0500 (EST) From: Charlie Poole Subject: Re: women in music On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, woj wrote: > i'm not a certified grey ears (tm) like mikewhy (though it's not that far > in the future), but allow me to be a crusty curmudgeon for a moment or two... So crusty old woj, just how close are you? In Tori, Charlie - -- +-------------------+-----------------+--------------------------+ | C.W. Poole | "Charlie" | cpoole@indiana.edu | +-------------------+-----------------+--------------------------+ | To me happiness, true happiness is when you can really dance | | with sad. --Tori Amos | | I have spent a lifetime learning how to cry. --Janis Ian | *----------------------------------------------------------------* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 03:22:31 -0500 (EST) From: Charlie Poole Subject: Re: Spacedog Now Campaign!!! On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, -= Robyn Hode =- wrote: > So ChinaDust, you really have a good point and lots of creativity. > After all, "Silent All These Years" made it as a hit many years later, I > don't see why Mr. Microphone wouldn't either. Now, how you you purpose > we all do it? Grass roots thing by calling local radio stations? Put > it up on reputable Tori web sites and just say that April 1st is "World > Wide Space Dog Day"? (I thought April Fools might be the best day for > this.) I think instead we would need sometime of major media > connection, like on Alpo commercials or through NASA. Anyone have > contacts? Ideas? The first one thing that came to mind is to head over > to Burbank and talk with Bob Barker (rough rough) and see if they will > do a spot on CBS for dog-related stuff. :) Or David Letterman playing > the song in the background with Stupid Human or Pet Tricks or something. After picking myself up off the floor and learning how to breathe again I must thank you so very much for that little bit of Torilevity[tm]. That was wonderful. NASA, absolutely. They could put Cindy with Tori into orbit on the Mir to shoot the video. In Tori, Charlie, still giggling... - -- +-------------------+-----------------+--------------------------+ | C.W. Poole | "Charlie" | cpoole@indiana.edu | +-------------------+-----------------+--------------------------+ | To me happiness, true happiness is when you can really dance | | with sad. --Tori Amos | | I have spent a lifetime learning how to cry. --Janis Ian | *----------------------------------------------------------------* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 03:54:49 -0500 (EST) From: Charlie Poole Subject: Re: women in music First, On Mon, 9 Feb 1998 WeirdyBoi@aol.com wrote: > What exactly is a "grey ears" ?? > please don't say there's now a hierarchy in the Toriphile realm now.... And then, On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 WeirdyBoi@aol.com wrote: > My question has been answered, please no one reply. Tuff, I'm going to reply anyway. Because I can. Because I'm The King. Plus there might be someone else on the list who doesn't know and would like to be informed. :-) A while back Beth gave me the title of King of the Grey Ears. The title, coming from the fertile backwaters of Beth's very creative imagination, signifies my advanced age and rapidly encroaching senility. I believe that I have the rather dubious honor of being the oldest Ear With Feet (that is the singular form of EWFs isn't it?) on the precious-things list (and tori-news, tori-boot, RDT(RN), and rec.music.tori-amos as well). At least I'm not Tori's oldest fan; her father is slightly older than I. ;-) A part of my kingly duties includes bestowing the Grey Ears title on deserving EWFs. The first person so bestowed was the richly deserving Sir Michael Whitehead. The only criteria for being a Grey Ears include an age in excess of 30 and obsession with Tori's music and with Tori, The Goddess, herself. Other than those easily obtained qualifications, additional mitigating circumstances will be taken into consideration for the Bestowing of the Title. In the near future I will bestow the title on some other truly derserving persons. I am open for nominations. If you would like to suggest a name for this honor please e-mail it and your reasons for the nomination to me privately, cpoole@indiana.edu. In Tori, Charlie, King of the Grey Ears I'm sure that Tori would just love this Tori-supersilliousness[tm]. - -- +-------------------+-----------------+--------------------------+ | C.W. Poole | "Charlie" | cpoole@indiana.edu | +-------------------+-----------------+--------------------------+ | To me happiness, true happiness is when you can really dance | | with sad. --Tori Amos | | I have spent a lifetime learning how to cry. --Janis Ian | *----------------------------------------------------------------* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:29:13 -0500 From: Beth Coulter Subject: Grey Ears In a message dated 98-02-09 23:12:45 EST, woj@smoe.org writes: << i'm not a certified grey ears (tm) like mikewhy (though it's not that far in the future), but allow me to be a crusty curmudgeon for a moment or two... >> What exactly is a "grey ears" ?? please don't say there's now a hierarchy in the Toriphile realm now.... lol j'ason I take full and complete responcibility for the whole Grey Ears thing. Being 36 I find most of my online pals are from 10 to 20 years younger than me. I knew I couldn't be the only *adult* who is passionate about Tori, so I sent out a call to anyone born before 1965. Charlie Poole turned out to be the oldest of the 7 or so grey ears, so he got to be King. Mikewhy was nominated by me, even tho' he's really too young, but working on the Dent must have put 10 years on his life, thereby making him an official grey ears. Kids, Ya gotta understand, it's not a hierarchy. It's just reaching out to peers and having a good laugh while we are at it. Just a whole group of old farts sending silly notes in royal language. This is just a fun little club and not meant to be exclusionary(sp?) by anymeans. So no one take offence or I'll have King Charlie send the Royal troops out to tickle you all!!! Fairy Blessings from the Loyal Lady, Bethey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:05:02 -0600 From: Karen Meyers Subject: "Crossing the Line: women in music" woj said: > i think this behavior is just a specific example of a more generic >pattern: women in music seem to >be described in terms of how they are >compared to some one else rather than in terms of what >they sound like. i >don't know why this is -- it's merely an observation (and one i've seen >many >others make as well). I agree with this statement, and I also must add that women in music are defined in terms of other women in music who went before them or are comtemporaries. I think this is one reason that some women in rock ardently refuse to discuss "Women in Rock" (which I understand empiracally, but which frustrates me nonetheless...Patti Smith comes to mind). I don't see it happening as often to men or male groups, although it does take place. It does not seem to be the defining element for that person or group, whereas critics and journalists still insist on mentioning other piano playing women when one piano playing woman is mentioned. I deeply cherish Kate Bush. When Tori Amos came along, Kate Bush did not even enter into my mind, and now I love Tori Amos' music as well, but in a different space in my body. As far as Jewel and Fiona Apple are concerned, I do not care for either of them, especially Jewel, but they are also young and early in their careers. I think Fiona Apple has quite a bit of potential and talent, but she needs to get over some of her "teen Angst bullshit" ;) Neither of them are Tori Amos. Tori Amos is neither of them. Personally, I'd love to hear Tori Amos doing some work with Eddie Vedder and I am still sad about the Michael Stipe song getting squished. I find Tori Amos' energy to mesh well with certain male energy (the tense and rather angry but soft-spoken kind) and I find it hard to imagine her working with other female artists, for some reason. As far as "crossing the line goes:" Debbie Harry? Patti Smith? (with the aforementioned proviso) Kate Bush? (In England...she came onto the scene in '76) David Bowie?, er, uh, never mind. I won't mention the "M" word. Although I want to ;). Tina Turner? I think women have been crossing the line for some time. Look at all the early R&B women and the jazz singers. Damn! smokin'. Tori Amos came about after/during another round of repression and conservatism. A lot of disillusionment in the air. Suddenly this fire-enigine-red-haired woman with a VOICE and a PIANO and a growling grind on the bench singing about emotions and anger and pain and female sexuality. There was a sigh of relief and slightly of shock...George Bush, Operation Desert Storm, Operation Rescue...I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!!! I hunted down Little Earthquakes. I wrote my summa thesis about Emily Bronte. I kept my Kate Bush and ONJ going and added Tori Amos, and prayed for a new election. Geez, speaking of $.02!! Once again, it's bus fare...$1.50, Karen Meyers Minneapolis, MN "I wish I was the evidence, I wish I was the grounds Or fifty million hands raised up and opened toward the sky" - PJ "Wish List" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:08:39 EST From: Hope4RAINN@aol.com Subject: Lost Site! and some other song stuff Does anyone know whatever happened to "The Precious Things Collection" that was hosted on Simplenet? It was one of my favorite sites and i'm wondering where it went. Also...Does anyone know where I can hear the original Talula? I listen to the Tornado mix all the time and even the synethasia mix alot but i've never in my life heard the original. Someone please help me out here! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:20:53 -0600 From: Laryza Morales Subject: Re: Recovering Christian T-Shirt Adam Mullet wrote: > Now wait just a minute. And before I go any further, I want everyone > to know that I have nothing against Laryza or anyone that might have been > offended by this discussion. I am really, really trying to *not* offend > people. > My response: Adam, I wasn't offended by the conversation. Like I said before ... I have no problem with other people expressing their opinion. I think it is healthy to believe in your own thing and to express it. It shows that the person has a certain strength because they are able to tell people things that may not be compatible to what the other person may be thinking. And that is okay. But I do have to disagree with you about anyone taking offense to the remarks that were being made. I do remember coming across a couple of emails that sounded like they were going to take off in some downward spiral. There was even an apology by someone here on the list because he had obviously offended one other person. (I am sorry, I erase the messages as I read through them - which means I don't have any specific names). you also wrote: > And if your faith in your religion, so delicate that a few E-mails > from total strangers are scaring you, I'm surprised you're even > listening to Tori. My response: I don't think people are getting offended because their faith is delicate, but because I am sure that there are people here on the list that may hold the utmost regard toward their religion. So, when someone else says something that may be pulling a little at the way they hold their God, it may hurt a little bit. That may be the reason enough for offense. That obviously was just my "take" on things. It seems to me that you took a bit of offense to my earlier email, and if that is the case ... I am sorry. - -L- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:25:15 -0600 From: Laryza Morales Subject: Re: Spacedog Now Campaign!!! I was thinking a little bit about your idea (and if I may add ... its brilliant). When I was trying to picture what the video might look like, the X-files came to mind. Hence, my question: Adia509, How would you feel if Scully and Mulder did a cameo in the video? You know, kind of adding an eerie feel to it? Your idea - your decision. I just thought that it would be interesting to get different aspects of artistry to coincide with each other. You know ... like when Gweneth Paltrow did a cameo on the video for "Come to My Window" by Melissa Ethridge, or when Courtney Cox did the cameo for one of the songs by Counting Crows. I don't know....maybe I am going off on a tangent, here. In fact, I know I am going off on a tangent. Sorry, I am tiring as my day draws to an end, and I tend to halucinate quite a bit when the comforts of rest come to mind. (*smile*) - -L- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:36:55 -0500 From: abbe@mit.edu Subject: Re: women in music I don't have any deep thoughts on what's been different for tori and other women in music just because they're women--whether they get stuck being compared to other women artists rather than discussed on their own terms, etc. (My own personal experience only goes as far as women in engineering, ie "you're pretty good; for a girl", where I do think it's still a problem.. but I digress.) On second thought, maybe I do have one thing to contribute, straight from Tori: "he said you're really an ugly girl but i like the way you play and i died but i thanked him anyway". Perhaps we can take this to mean that it sucks either way; your music (or more generally what you do) gets belittled and tossed into a category as "girls stuff", or your work gets appreciated but that makes you an "ugly girl", or they can't think of you as a woman anymore. But maybe I'm trying to squash this back into my own experiences, and engineering's pretty different from music... But, I do wonder why people on this list have been so quick to jump defensively at the idea that Tori might have been inspired by some other female performers, or that they might have been inspired by Tori. Not being nearly as familiar with most of these other artists, I don't know which comparison are valid and which aren't, and I welcome the discussion about it. But, I don't think it's an "insult" to anyone to wonder who influenced who. Nearly all artists seem to talk quite freely about whose music influences them and why. My guess is both Tori and the other artists who've been mentioned would take it as a compliment! It's not "ripping off", it's a source of inspiration. - -abbe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:12:51 EST From: FlutterVxn@aol.com Subject: tori married? my boyfriend says he heard that Tori was getting married....she announced it or something in an interview on the radio today....does anyone else know something?> K ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:35:24 -0500 From: "Geoff Moore" Subject: The Big Question? Sorry for the overestimating subject, but I have been wondering this for a while. With some of the topics of late being reviews for the GE soundtrack and why do we like Tori covers, I had to ask.... Why do we like Tori's Music soooooo much? Many of us, myself included, listen to Tori more than any other artist. Why? If she's so good, how come she doesn't get air play? How come so often her music is bashed by reviewers? I find this intruiging at the very least. Are we onto something that so many aren't? I used to think it was the lyrics, and how they meant so much. But I don't believe it any more. It's true, her lyrics are better than any other songrwriter I know, but she could say just about anything else and I'd still love her. I dunno...... Geoff, a puzzled EWF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:17:06 -1000 From: -= Robyn Hode =- Subject: Re: The Big Question? Geoff Moore wrote: > > Sorry for the overestimating subject, but I have been wondering this for a > while. With some of the topics of late being reviews for the GE soundtrack > and why do we like Tori covers, I had to ask.... > > Why do we like Tori's Music soooooo much? And a very good question. I really can't put my finger on it either. I think it is a combination of many, many factors. Here are some of mine: 1. Each musical piece is unique and has its own style. 2. Each song stands the test of time. (You don't get bored of it). 3. Each song has a melody. I think many artists today forget that a song should be about music and melody, not just about one beat, one tone, etc. 4. Each song is dynamic, meaning that it has many parts and shifts to it. 5. Each piece brings out a different mood or emotion. So there is probably a song for every occasion. 6. Her songs are written to get her point and perspective across, but to also spark insight and one's own interpretation. 7. Her songs are honest and relate to the human condition. There is little fluff or repitition, and when there is, it has a meaningful point like in the chant in Little Earthquake, "Give me life, give me pain, give me myself again." I think for me point #7 has a lot of meaning. Many people today hide behind their haircut or their belief. I find that Tori's music lets it all hang out and show that many of the social norms we experience are not all good. I somehow get the meaning in her songs that humans tend to be accepting of things without possibly seeing the consequences and that most of the problems we exerpience in life are a result of humans creating problems for other humans. Again, that is open for interpretation on my part... I'm sure there are many other reasons why her music is so nice.... Scotty - -- _________/{______________________________________________ O)]/////////[ O >--- SQUARE USA: LA and Honolulu Studios ---`-----__ `"""""""""\{======================================================` RPG & Squaresoft Designer ** scotty@sqla.com ** sord@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:13:27 -0700 From: Dave Woodson Subject: L.A. Toriphiles If there is anyone on the list who lives in L.A., I would be interested in contacting you in order to make arrangements to get a ticket for the upcoming show on Tori's club tour when they become available. I'd really like to catch one of these shows if it's at all possible. Thanks :) - -Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:05:46 -0700 From: Dave Woodson Subject: crossing the line Beth wrote: >For my part, altho' I did not see SNL (oh give me back the old origianal >crew, dig 'em up or dig 'em out, I miss them!!!), I have seen Paula perform >on TV, as I have Jewel and others. I don't think that they are so much >copying Tori, but Tori has allowed them to perform as *they* want. If it resembles Tori, perhaps it is because Tori was just the first to *cross the line* as far as female performers go. I'm not sure if I completely agree with this or not because I'm not sure exactly what line is being referred to. There have been a lot of female musical artists who have crossed lines and challenged popular stereotypes of women in music in their day. Debbie Harry filtered the old early 60's girl pop singer image through a heavy layer of punk rock and New York City street toughness, as well as introducing almost unheard of diversity in terms of musical influences, ranging from showtunes to rap. Pat Benatar fused blatant sexiness with a no nonsense, eyes wide open independence and agressiveness. Chrissie Hynde, Cyndi Lauper, Joan Jett, Kim Gordon, Tina Weymouth, Tina Turner, Madonna, Siouxsie Sioux, The Go Go's/Bangles/Bananarama and many other women all had their part in breaking old rules, removing barriers and ultimately moving and blurring "the line" to the point where a Tori Amos became possible. It's not like we went from "I wanna be Bobby's girl" to "So you can make me cum that doesn't make you Jesus" in one big line crossing leap. I think the line that Tori crossed was to take a lot of the elements that were so prominent in earlier female artists, the independence, vulnerability, sexiness, agressiveness, poetic expression, joy, pain, and combine them into a single, complex whole, existing simultaneously and indivisibly, and without contradiction. Then she made it personal, by forging a bond with her audience far more intimate than anyone who had come before, in her lyrics, performances and her offstage accessibility. She removed the barriers between performer and audience to the point where it is difficult, listening to her music, to tell where the feelings Tori expresses in the song leave off, and the feelings it evokes in the listener begin. Ultimately, they are one and the same; the Tori experience is different for everyone, a collaboration between the two that changes depending on what you bring to the mix [a fact that completely stymies critics who complain that Tori's music is nonsense because they approach it empty-handed, and thus get nothing out of it having put nothing in] Ironically, it is her humanity that makes people want to put her on a pedestal; no one would want to worship her like a goddess if she really were one. If Tori was a typical rock star, insulated from her fans by layers of security, image and showmanship, she would still be an incredible musician, and she'd be quite capable of creating enjoyable music, but she wouldn't have anywhere near the kind of following she has. For Toriphiles, it's not just the music, it's *Tori*, the whole package, the pretty parts and the rough edges, the soaring joy and the broken glass pain, the light and the shadow, the view of the stars from the lowest gutters. She wasn't the first one to cross a line, but the line she crossed was one that hardly anyone else would have stepped up to. Simon wrote: >pardon the melodrama, and I hope latecomers to Tori's music are welcome as >fans. It doesn't matter if you discovered Tori five minutes before you posted [although that would have been the fastest mailing list subscription in net history] there's always room for more. >Seriously, Tori puts so much of herself and her experiences into her music, >is it stealing to feeling affected by it even though my own experiences in >life fall a few light years short? What I feel is after hearing her music >is for me so impossible to describe, but I know that her music is something >very special and the last thing I want is to be connecting with something I >don't have the right to. If you didn't have the right to connect with it, Tori wouldn't give it to you. You can't steal anything from her. It was yours to begin with. Don't sell your own experiences short either. Tori wouldn't. This is something wer'e all in together. You haven't had her experiences, but she hasn't had yours. If she can touch you, there's obviously something there to touch. >bracing for the flames, and the katana is at the ready if I've offended anyone. I make it a practice to avoid flaming anybody, but I'd find nothing to flame here even if I were inclined to it. Welcome to the list :) Len wrote: >I know this is not a tori amos question, but I need to know if Falco >died this past weekend. I heard on the radio that he did, in a car crash. - -Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:04:57 EST From: ChinaDust@aol.com Subject: Re: Spacedog Now Campaign!!! In a message dated 98-02-10 01:37:01 EST, scotty@sqla.com writes: << So ChinaDust, you really have a good point and lots of creativity. >> heyhey, i didn't launch this tori-fighting-space-aliens idea, remember? it was adia's! i only mentioned the greatness of space dog with the others on the list! :o) anyway, um...i don't think we're gonna be able to do something as big as NASA commercials or whatever it was (not that it's not possible. if you really wanna...). maybe something smaller, like, um...(i'm not exactly brimming with outrageousness here), one collected petition of emails and smaller petitions from individual web sites, sent to her management. wow, i just looked at the rest of my mailbox and realized that i'm pretty late into the SD discussion. anyway... does anyone know WHY it was that space dog never became a hit? i mean, there has to be an underlying reason, 'cause almost everyone agrees that it's a GREAT song with instant ZAP, but it hasn't really gotten any more attention than the other less-known/less-commercialized songs like, um, The Wrong Band for instance. i know that there was a single in Russia, and that's all i can think of. anyone know anything about why it was held back? eileen ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V3 #52 ************************************