From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V2 #352 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Tuesday, December 9 1997 Volume 02 : Number 352 Today's Subjects: ----------------- What tori does [Richard Holmes ] What tori does [Richard Holmes ] What tori does [Richard Holmes ] What tori does [Richard Holmes ] What tori does [Richard Holmes ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:14:54 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Holmes Subject: What tori does On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:49:49 BST, "Doron Vidavski" writes: > But the fact to be most stressed here is that Kate has herself > confessed (in the very few interviews that her record company forced > her to give over the years) that she does NOT see herself as a > musician. She sees herself as an *accompanist* (is it spelt with an I > or a Y, I wonder...) and the piano and other instruments that she > plays are only a vehicle for her songs. She is first and foremost a > writer (an incredible one, at that) and a singer. This, I think is a > very important distinction between her and our T. Tori is primarily > an achingly talented pianist, and I would say that for her the > writing comes second. I would agree that tori's a very talented pianist, but would have trouble accepting that for her writing comes second. For one, she "writes/ creates/ composes" her instrumental parts as well, so certainly that doesn't come second. (Note that a "pianist" usually implies someone who's primary interest lie in the execution and interpretation of the piano score or improvisation.) Tori (I believe) is so intense in many ways because she does write / perform with all her body, mind, soul in a very integrated way; she seems to stick her roots deep into the unfathomable chasms of human emotion, primordial fire, and shamanic ecstasy, and extract the raw essence, and radiate it outwards in her performance. In this way a bit of magic touches all her listeners (at least those with ears to hear and heart to feel). [ I also think that Kate's great too, in a bit different way - perhaps a bit more crafted and studied. Kate is very inspired and original as well -- but this *is* the tori list. ] Sometimes I think that this poem (which has tie-ins to many of the things Tori has affinity for -- at least in the full version) gives a bit of my impressions of Tori: "...You drink strength from your dark fierce roots and you hang at the sun's own fiery breast and with the green cities of your boughs you shelter and celebrate woman, with the cauldrons of your energies burning red, burning green." - from "The Twelve-Spoked Wheel Flashing" by Marge Piercy I have at times imagined her "rooted" into a forest with flaming red hair, drinking the energies with her feet and showering them on her audience... [does this make me a nut case ;-] Beth Winegarner writes: > Since the subject of comparisons between Kate Bush and Tori has come up > recently on the Precious Things list, I wanted to post about something I've > been thinking about. I listen to Kate Bush's album "The Red Shoes" a lot at > work because we have a few used copies of it and it's nice to hear while I'm > working. But the other day I was listening a bit more closely and it > occurred to me that "Lily" reminds me a lot of some of the themes on Pele, > especially on CaLS. A few things in particular... > > "Well I said > 'Lily, oh Lily I don't feel safe > I feel that life has blown a great big hole through me' > ANd she said > 'Child you must protect yourself > I'll show you how with fire'" I think fire speaks to a lot of people - remember Sarah McLachlan's "Into the Fire"? > This reminds me a lot of Tori's discussion of the notion that Pele was about > finding her own fire, so to speak. Not stealing it from men anymore, but > finding it within... and I've always thought that that search really started > with CaLS (both because it was the single, the song we heard before we heard > the whole album, and because it seems to be the turning point for the album > being in the middle). CaLS talks about finding strength in womanhood and > female friends ("I need a big loan from the girl zone...") and here Bush is > talking to Lily is -- and I'm naive enough that I don't know if she's > talking about a specific figure or a friend -- but it's obviously a feminine > influence. Then she says: > > "Gabriel before me > Raphael behind me > Michael to my right > Uriel on my left side > In the circle of fire" Sounds like something out of a Golden Dawn ritual...(of course the origins are much earlier). > And Tori says: "Boys on my left side/Boys on my right side/Boys in the > middle/And you're not here." > > Now, before anyone gets up in arms, I'm not saying that Tori is stealing > anything from Kate Bush's work (as some people have alleged). I just think > it's neat that it seems Tori was inspired by this song. Other songs on the > album, like the title track and Rubberband Girl, are inspirational in the > sense of finding strength and becoming more magical (in the first) and more > flexible (in the second). > > What do you guys think, especially those of you who listen to both artists? > I found it really interesting. I think a lot of the same things inspire both artists; but they each are crafting their own individual creations. "rosalind's pea soup" ("keriloo") writes: > To elaborate on Yvette's comment... > I think the majority of Tori's more powerful emotional songs follow a > very spirit-connected sexual rhythm that is very comparable to our > mentalities during such an encounter...like she says, she is some > sort of a Mary Magdalene...spiritually aware of herself in every > sense. You might be interested in "The moon beneath her feet" by Kintsler, where the Magdalene is the title of a priestess (who's called the "whore of babylon" by various folks). One of the Marys who is a Magdalene is a primary character - now here's a tie-in to an earlier thread: Judas is identified with Set (Seth), Jesu (jesus) is Osiris, and Mary with Isis. Don't care for the sacrificial king bit, but on the whole an enjoyable story (which I won't give away *too* much of the plot of here). > I know I can definitely connect with this, due to my religious > upbringing and the sexual taboos that were shoved down my throat. > I mean....think about it...PW...precious things...blood > roses...LE...Space Dog(definitely has the rhythm part)... > She balances these with songs revealing little bits of > insight...lighter songs...and then she has the heart-rippers...slow > and pulling your guts out. Although not filled with the > rhythm, the residue of it kinda sticks and you get the feeling that > the orgasm has passed and you're sitting there in a little movie > theatre of your life watching it pass by and trying to hold on to the > moments. Blood Roses is *almost* too intense now for me after having read Walker's "Posessing the Secret of Joy" -- I imagine Tashi painting huger and more grotesque roosters in a mad frenzy in that house, as she's remembering the past... the image is too vivid. Still enjoy connecting with that intense an emotion, but wow, not to be taken lightly. sheesh. I think a lot of tori's songs have some of this intense of energy behind them, cuz we *really* don't know what they mean to her, at least not all the time - there's more there than meets the ear. - -Richard. (the other richard) @ \@/ Richard A. Holmes (rholmes@cs.stanford.edu) @ | @ \|/ " 'The Book of History has many missing pages' @ | Murmurs the Madonna of the Middle Ages @ , , | , , But in between her cracks you can read between the lines @ ' ' ' ' ' She'd love nothing better than to rob the Louvre blind @ Baroque and complicated, her lovers never stay @ It looks like Mona Lisa is having a bad day... " @ - Michelle Shocked, "Looks Like Mona Lisa.." (on Captain Swing) @ @ Kiva / Kate Price \ Dar Williams / Renaissance \ Sheila Chandra / Laura Love @ Susan McKeown \ Sarah McLachlan / Libana \ Danielle Dax \ Dog Faced Hermans @ Loreena McKennitt / Kate Bush \ Tori Amos / Katell Keineg / Happy Rhodes @ Ingrid Karklins \ Sinead O'Connor / Jane Siberry / Pauline Oliveros ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:14:54 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Holmes Subject: What tori does On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:49:49 BST, "Doron Vidavski" writes: > But the fact to be most stressed here is that Kate has herself > confessed (in the very few interviews that her record company forced > her to give over the years) that she does NOT see herself as a > musician. She sees herself as an *accompanist* (is it spelt with an I > or a Y, I wonder...) and the piano and other instruments that she > plays are only a vehicle for her songs. She is first and foremost a > writer (an incredible one, at that) and a singer. This, I think is a > very important distinction between her and our T. Tori is primarily > an achingly talented pianist, and I would say that for her the > writing comes second. I would agree that tori's a very talented pianist, but would have trouble accepting that for her writing comes second. For one, she "writes/ creates/ composes" her instrumental parts as well, so certainly that doesn't come second. (Note that a "pianist" usually implies someone who's primary interest lie in the execution and interpretation of the piano score or improvisation.) Tori (I believe) is so intense in many ways because she does write / perform with all her body, mind, soul in a very integrated way; she seems to stick her roots deep into the unfathomable chasms of human emotion, primordial fire, and shamanic ecstasy, and extract the raw essence, and radiate it outwards in her performance. In this way a bit of magic touches all her listeners (at least those with ears to hear and heart to feel). [ I also think that Kate's great too, in a bit different way - perhaps a bit more crafted and studied. Kate is very inspired and original as well -- but this *is* the tori list. ] Sometimes I think that this poem (which has tie-ins to many of the things Tori has affinity for -- at least in the full version) gives a bit of my impressions of Tori: "...You drink strength from your dark fierce roots and you hang at the sun's own fiery breast and with the green cities of your boughs you shelter and celebrate woman, with the cauldrons of your energies burning red, burning green." - from "The Twelve-Spoked Wheel Flashing" by Marge Piercy I have at times imagined her "rooted" into a forest with flaming red hair, drinking the energies with her feet and showering them on her audience... [does this make me a nut case ;-] Beth Winegarner writes: > Since the subject of comparisons between Kate Bush and Tori has come up > recently on the Precious Things list, I wanted to post about something I've > been thinking about. I listen to Kate Bush's album "The Red Shoes" a lot at > work because we have a few used copies of it and it's nice to hear while I'm > working. But the other day I was listening a bit more closely and it > occurred to me that "Lily" reminds me a lot of some of the themes on Pele, > especially on CaLS. A few things in particular... > > "Well I said > 'Lily, oh Lily I don't feel safe > I feel that life has blown a great big hole through me' > ANd she said > 'Child you must protect yourself > I'll show you how with fire'" I think fire speaks to a lot of people - remember Sarah McLachlan's "Into the Fire"? > This reminds me a lot of Tori's discussion of the notion that Pele was about > finding her own fire, so to speak. Not stealing it from men anymore, but > finding it within... and I've always thought that that search really started > with CaLS (both because it was the single, the song we heard before we heard > the whole album, and because it seems to be the turning point for the album > being in the middle). CaLS talks about finding strength in womanhood and > female friends ("I need a big loan from the girl zone...") and here Bush is > talking to Lily is -- and I'm naive enough that I don't know if she's > talking about a specific figure or a friend -- but it's obviously a feminine > influence. Then she says: > > "Gabriel before me > Raphael behind me > Michael to my right > Uriel on my left side > In the circle of fire" Sounds like something out of a Golden Dawn ritual...(of course the origins are much earlier). > And Tori says: "Boys on my left side/Boys on my right side/Boys in the > middle/And you're not here." > > Now, before anyone gets up in arms, I'm not saying that Tori is stealing > anything from Kate Bush's work (as some people have alleged). I just think > it's neat that it seems Tori was inspired by this song. Other songs on the > album, like the title track and Rubberband Girl, are inspirational in the > sense of finding strength and becoming more magical (in the first) and more > flexible (in the second). > > What do you guys think, especially those of you who listen to both artists? > I found it really interesting. I think a lot of the same things inspire both artists; but they each are crafting their own individual creations. "rosalind's pea soup" ("keriloo") writes: > To elaborate on Yvette's comment... > I think the majority of Tori's more powerful emotional songs follow a > very spirit-connected sexual rhythm that is very comparable to our > mentalities during such an encounter...like she says, she is some > sort of a Mary Magdalene...spiritually aware of herself in every > sense. You might be interested in "The moon beneath her feet" by Kintsler, where the Magdalene is the title of a priestess (who's called the "whore of babylon" by various folks). One of the Marys who is a Magdalene is a primary character - now here's a tie-in to an earlier thread: Judas is identified with Set (Seth), Jesu (jesus) is Osiris, and Mary with Isis. Don't care for the sacrificial king bit, but on the whole an enjoyable story (which I won't give away *too* much of the plot of here). > I know I can definitely connect with this, due to my religious > upbringing and the sexual taboos that were shoved down my throat. > I mean....think about it...PW...precious things...blood > roses...LE...Space Dog(definitely has the rhythm part)... > She balances these with songs revealing little bits of > insight...lighter songs...and then she has the heart-rippers...slow > and pulling your guts out. Although not filled with the > rhythm, the residue of it kinda sticks and you get the feeling that > the orgasm has passed and you're sitting there in a little movie > theatre of your life watching it pass by and trying to hold on to the > moments. Blood Roses is *almost* too intense now for me after having read Walker's "Posessing the Secret of Joy" -- I imagine Tashi painting huger and more grotesque roosters in a mad frenzy in that house, as she's remembering the past... the image is too vivid. Still enjoy connecting with that intense an emotion, but wow, not to be taken lightly. sheesh. I think a lot of tori's songs have some of this intense of energy behind them, cuz we *really* don't know what they mean to her, at least not all the time - there's more there than meets the ear. - -Richard. (the other richard) @ \@/ Richard A. Holmes (rholmes@cs.stanford.edu) @ | @ \|/ " 'The Book of History has many missing pages' @ | Murmurs the Madonna of the Middle Ages @ , , | , , But in between her cracks you can read between the lines @ ' ' ' ' ' She'd love nothing better than to rob the Louvre blind @ Baroque and complicated, her lovers never stay @ It looks like Mona Lisa is having a bad day... " @ - Michelle Shocked, "Looks Like Mona Lisa.." (on Captain Swing) @ @ Kiva / Kate Price \ Dar Williams / Renaissance \ Sheila Chandra / Laura Love @ Susan McKeown \ Sarah McLachlan / Libana \ Danielle Dax \ Dog Faced Hermans @ Loreena McKennitt / Kate Bush \ Tori Amos / Katell Keineg / Happy Rhodes @ Ingrid Karklins \ Sinead O'Connor / Jane Siberry / Pauline Oliveros ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:14:54 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Holmes Subject: What tori does On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:49:49 BST, "Doron Vidavski" writes: > But the fact to be most stressed here is that Kate has herself > confessed (in the very few interviews that her record company forced > her to give over the years) that she does NOT see herself as a > musician. She sees herself as an *accompanist* (is it spelt with an I > or a Y, I wonder...) and the piano and other instruments that she > plays are only a vehicle for her songs. She is first and foremost a > writer (an incredible one, at that) and a singer. This, I think is a > very important distinction between her and our T. Tori is primarily > an achingly talented pianist, and I would say that for her the > writing comes second. I would agree that tori's a very talented pianist, but would have trouble accepting that for her writing comes second. For one, she "writes/ creates/ composes" her instrumental parts as well, so certainly that doesn't come second. (Note that a "pianist" usually implies someone who's primary interest lie in the execution and interpretation of the piano score or improvisation.) Tori (I believe) is so intense in many ways because she does write / perform with all her body, mind, soul in a very integrated way; she seems to stick her roots deep into the unfathomable chasms of human emotion, primordial fire, and shamanic ecstasy, and extract the raw essence, and radiate it outwards in her performance. In this way a bit of magic touches all her listeners (at least those with ears to hear and heart to feel). [ I also think that Kate's great too, in a bit different way - perhaps a bit more crafted and studied. Kate is very inspired and original as well -- but this *is* the tori list. ] Sometimes I think that this poem (which has tie-ins to many of the things Tori has affinity for -- at least in the full version) gives a bit of my impressions of Tori: "...You drink strength from your dark fierce roots and you hang at the sun's own fiery breast and with the green cities of your boughs you shelter and celebrate woman, with the cauldrons of your energies burning red, burning green." - from "The Twelve-Spoked Wheel Flashing" by Marge Piercy I have at times imagined her "rooted" into a forest with flaming red hair, drinking the energies with her feet and showering them on her audience... [does this make me a nut case ;-] Beth Winegarner writes: > Since the subject of comparisons between Kate Bush and Tori has come up > recently on the Precious Things list, I wanted to post about something I've > been thinking about. I listen to Kate Bush's album "The Red Shoes" a lot at > work because we have a few used copies of it and it's nice to hear while I'm > working. But the other day I was listening a bit more closely and it > occurred to me that "Lily" reminds me a lot of some of the themes on Pele, > especially on CaLS. A few things in particular... > > "Well I said > 'Lily, oh Lily I don't feel safe > I feel that life has blown a great big hole through me' > ANd she said > 'Child you must protect yourself > I'll show you how with fire'" I think fire speaks to a lot of people - remember Sarah McLachlan's "Into the Fire"? > This reminds me a lot of Tori's discussion of the notion that Pele was about > finding her own fire, so to speak. Not stealing it from men anymore, but > finding it within... and I've always thought that that search really started > with CaLS (both because it was the single, the song we heard before we heard > the whole album, and because it seems to be the turning point for the album > being in the middle). CaLS talks about finding strength in womanhood and > female friends ("I need a big loan from the girl zone...") and here Bush is > talking to Lily is -- and I'm naive enough that I don't know if she's > talking about a specific figure or a friend -- but it's obviously a feminine > influence. Then she says: > > "Gabriel before me > Raphael behind me > Michael to my right > Uriel on my left side > In the circle of fire" Sounds like something out of a Golden Dawn ritual...(of course the origins are much earlier). > And Tori says: "Boys on my left side/Boys on my right side/Boys in the > middle/And you're not here." > > Now, before anyone gets up in arms, I'm not saying that Tori is stealing > anything from Kate Bush's work (as some people have alleged). I just think > it's neat that it seems Tori was inspired by this song. Other songs on the > album, like the title track and Rubberband Girl, are inspirational in the > sense of finding strength and becoming more magical (in the first) and more > flexible (in the second). > > What do you guys think, especially those of you who listen to both artists? > I found it really interesting. I think a lot of the same things inspire both artists; but they each are crafting their own individual creations. "rosalind's pea soup" ("keriloo") writes: > To elaborate on Yvette's comment... > I think the majority of Tori's more powerful emotional songs follow a > very spirit-connected sexual rhythm that is very comparable to our > mentalities during such an encounter...like she says, she is some > sort of a Mary Magdalene...spiritually aware of herself in every > sense. You might be interested in "The moon beneath her feet" by Kintsler, where the Magdalene is the title of a priestess (who's called the "whore of babylon" by various folks). One of the Marys who is a Magdalene is a primary character - now here's a tie-in to an earlier thread: Judas is identified with Set (Seth), Jesu (jesus) is Osiris, and Mary with Isis. Don't care for the sacrificial king bit, but on the whole an enjoyable story (which I won't give away *too* much of the plot of here). > I know I can definitely connect with this, due to my religious > upbringing and the sexual taboos that were shoved down my throat. > I mean....think about it...PW...precious things...blood > roses...LE...Space Dog(definitely has the rhythm part)... > She balances these with songs revealing little bits of > insight...lighter songs...and then she has the heart-rippers...slow > and pulling your guts out. Although not filled with the > rhythm, the residue of it kinda sticks and you get the feeling that > the orgasm has passed and you're sitting there in a little movie > theatre of your life watching it pass by and trying to hold on to the > moments. Blood Roses is *almost* too intense now for me after having read Walker's "Posessing the Secret of Joy" -- I imagine Tashi painting huger and more grotesque roosters in a mad frenzy in that house, as she's remembering the past... the image is too vivid. Still enjoy connecting with that intense an emotion, but wow, not to be taken lightly. sheesh. I think a lot of tori's songs have some of this intense of energy behind them, cuz we *really* don't know what they mean to her, at least not all the time - there's more there than meets the ear. - -Richard. (the other richard) @ \@/ Richard A. Holmes (rholmes@cs.stanford.edu) @ | @ \|/ " 'The Book of History has many missing pages' @ | Murmurs the Madonna of the Middle Ages @ , , | , , But in between her cracks you can read between the lines @ ' ' ' ' ' She'd love nothing better than to rob the Louvre blind @ Baroque and complicated, her lovers never stay @ It looks like Mona Lisa is having a bad day... " @ - Michelle Shocked, "Looks Like Mona Lisa.." (on Captain Swing) @ @ Kiva / Kate Price \ Dar Williams / Renaissance \ Sheila Chandra / Laura Love @ Susan McKeown \ Sarah McLachlan / Libana \ Danielle Dax \ Dog Faced Hermans @ Loreena McKennitt / Kate Bush \ Tori Amos / Katell Keineg / Happy Rhodes @ Ingrid Karklins \ Sinead O'Connor / Jane Siberry / Pauline Oliveros ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:14:54 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Holmes Subject: What tori does On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:49:49 BST, "Doron Vidavski" writes: > But the fact to be most stressed here is that Kate has herself > confessed (in the very few interviews that her record company forced > her to give over the years) that she does NOT see herself as a > musician. She sees herself as an *accompanist* (is it spelt with an I > or a Y, I wonder...) and the piano and other instruments that she > plays are only a vehicle for her songs. She is first and foremost a > writer (an incredible one, at that) and a singer. This, I think is a > very important distinction between her and our T. Tori is primarily > an achingly talented pianist, and I would say that for her the > writing comes second. I would agree that tori's a very talented pianist, but would have trouble accepting that for her writing comes second. For one, she "writes/ creates/ composes" her instrumental parts as well, so certainly that doesn't come second. (Note that a "pianist" usually implies someone who's primary interest lie in the execution and interpretation of the piano score or improvisation.) Tori (I believe) is so intense in many ways because she does write / perform with all her body, mind, soul in a very integrated way; she seems to stick her roots deep into the unfathomable chasms of human emotion, primordial fire, and shamanic ecstasy, and extract the raw essence, and radiate it outwards in her performance. In this way a bit of magic touches all her listeners (at least those with ears to hear and heart to feel). [ I also think that Kate's great too, in a bit different way - perhaps a bit more crafted and studied. Kate is very inspired and original as well -- but this *is* the tori list. ] Sometimes I think that this poem (which has tie-ins to many of the things Tori has affinity for -- at least in the full version) gives a bit of my impressions of Tori: "...You drink strength from your dark fierce roots and you hang at the sun's own fiery breast and with the green cities of your boughs you shelter and celebrate woman, with the cauldrons of your energies burning red, burning green." - from "The Twelve-Spoked Wheel Flashing" by Marge Piercy I have at times imagined her "rooted" into a forest with flaming red hair, drinking the energies with her feet and showering them on her audience... [does this make me a nut case ;-] Beth Winegarner writes: > Since the subject of comparisons between Kate Bush and Tori has come up > recently on the Precious Things list, I wanted to post about something I've > been thinking about. I listen to Kate Bush's album "The Red Shoes" a lot at > work because we have a few used copies of it and it's nice to hear while I'm > working. But the other day I was listening a bit more closely and it > occurred to me that "Lily" reminds me a lot of some of the themes on Pele, > especially on CaLS. A few things in particular... > > "Well I said > 'Lily, oh Lily I don't feel safe > I feel that life has blown a great big hole through me' > ANd she said > 'Child you must protect yourself > I'll show you how with fire'" I think fire speaks to a lot of people - remember Sarah McLachlan's "Into the Fire"? > This reminds me a lot of Tori's discussion of the notion that Pele was about > finding her own fire, so to speak. Not stealing it from men anymore, but > finding it within... and I've always thought that that search really started > with CaLS (both because it was the single, the song we heard before we heard > the whole album, and because it seems to be the turning point for the album > being in the middle). CaLS talks about finding strength in womanhood and > female friends ("I need a big loan from the girl zone...") and here Bush is > talking to Lily is -- and I'm naive enough that I don't know if she's > talking about a specific figure or a friend -- but it's obviously a feminine > influence. Then she says: > > "Gabriel before me > Raphael behind me > Michael to my right > Uriel on my left side > In the circle of fire" Sounds like something out of a Golden Dawn ritual...(of course the origins are much earlier). > And Tori says: "Boys on my left side/Boys on my right side/Boys in the > middle/And you're not here." > > Now, before anyone gets up in arms, I'm not saying that Tori is stealing > anything from Kate Bush's work (as some people have alleged). I just think > it's neat that it seems Tori was inspired by this song. Other songs on the > album, like the title track and Rubberband Girl, are inspirational in the > sense of finding strength and becoming more magical (in the first) and more > flexible (in the second). > > What do you guys think, especially those of you who listen to both artists? > I found it really interesting. I think a lot of the same things inspire both artists; but they each are crafting their own individual creations. "rosalind's pea soup" ("keriloo") writes: > To elaborate on Yvette's comment... > I think the majority of Tori's more powerful emotional songs follow a > very spirit-connected sexual rhythm that is very comparable to our > mentalities during such an encounter...like she says, she is some > sort of a Mary Magdalene...spiritually aware of herself in every > sense. You might be interested in "The moon beneath her feet" by Kintsler, where the Magdalene is the title of a priestess (who's called the "whore of babylon" by various folks). One of the Marys who is a Magdalene is a primary character - now here's a tie-in to an earlier thread: Judas is identified with Set (Seth), Jesu (jesus) is Osiris, and Mary with Isis. Don't care for the sacrificial king bit, but on the whole an enjoyable story (which I won't give away *too* much of the plot of here). > I know I can definitely connect with this, due to my religious > upbringing and the sexual taboos that were shoved down my throat. > I mean....think about it...PW...precious things...blood > roses...LE...Space Dog(definitely has the rhythm part)... > She balances these with songs revealing little bits of > insight...lighter songs...and then she has the heart-rippers...slow > and pulling your guts out. Although not filled with the > rhythm, the residue of it kinda sticks and you get the feeling that > the orgasm has passed and you're sitting there in a little movie > theatre of your life watching it pass by and trying to hold on to the > moments. Blood Roses is *almost* too intense now for me after having read Walker's "Posessing the Secret of Joy" -- I imagine Tashi painting huger and more grotesque roosters in a mad frenzy in that house, as she's remembering the past... the image is too vivid. Still enjoy connecting with that intense an emotion, but wow, not to be taken lightly. sheesh. I think a lot of tori's songs have some of this intense of energy behind them, cuz we *really* don't know what they mean to her, at least not all the time - there's more there than meets the ear. - -Richard. (the other richard) @ \@/ Richard A. Holmes (rholmes@cs.stanford.edu) @ | @ \|/ " 'The Book of History has many missing pages' @ | Murmurs the Madonna of the Middle Ages @ , , | , , But in between her cracks you can read between the lines @ ' ' ' ' ' She'd love nothing better than to rob the Louvre blind @ Baroque and complicated, her lovers never stay @ It looks like Mona Lisa is having a bad day... " @ - Michelle Shocked, "Looks Like Mona Lisa.." (on Captain Swing) @ @ Kiva / Kate Price \ Dar Williams / Renaissance \ Sheila Chandra / Laura Love @ Susan McKeown \ Sarah McLachlan / Libana \ Danielle Dax \ Dog Faced Hermans @ Loreena McKennitt / Kate Bush \ Tori Amos / Katell Keineg / Happy Rhodes @ Ingrid Karklins \ Sinead O'Connor / Jane Siberry / Pauline Oliveros ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:14:54 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Holmes Subject: What tori does On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:49:49 BST, "Doron Vidavski" writes: > But the fact to be most stressed here is that Kate has herself > confessed (in the very few interviews that her record company forced > her to give over the years) that she does NOT see herself as a > musician. She sees herself as an *accompanist* (is it spelt with an I > or a Y, I wonder...) and the piano and other instruments that she > plays are only a vehicle for her songs. She is first and foremost a > writer (an incredible one, at that) and a singer. This, I think is a > very important distinction between her and our T. Tori is primarily > an achingly talented pianist, and I would say that for her the > writing comes second. I would agree that tori's a very talented pianist, but would have trouble accepting that for her writing comes second. For one, she "writes/ creates/ composes" her instrumental parts as well, so certainly that doesn't come second. (Note that a "pianist" usually implies someone who's primary interest lie in the execution and interpretation of the piano score or improvisation.) Tori (I believe) is so intense in many ways because she does write / perform with all her body, mind, soul in a very integrated way; she seems to stick her roots deep into the unfathomable chasms of human emotion, primordial fire, and shamanic ecstasy, and extract the raw essence, and radiate it outwards in her performance. In this way a bit of magic touches all her listeners (at least those with ears to hear and heart to feel). [ I also think that Kate's great too, in a bit different way - perhaps a bit more crafted and studied. Kate is very inspired and original as well -- but this *is* the tori list. ] Sometimes I think that this poem (which has tie-ins to many of the things Tori has affinity for -- at least in the full version) gives a bit of my impressions of Tori: "...You drink strength from your dark fierce roots and you hang at the sun's own fiery breast and with the green cities of your boughs you shelter and celebrate woman, with the cauldrons of your energies burning red, burning green." - from "The Twelve-Spoked Wheel Flashing" by Marge Piercy I have at times imagined her "rooted" into a forest with flaming red hair, drinking the energies with her feet and showering them on her audience... [does this make me a nut case ;-] Beth Winegarner writes: > Since the subject of comparisons between Kate Bush and Tori has come up > recently on the Precious Things list, I wanted to post about something I've > been thinking about. I listen to Kate Bush's album "The Red Shoes" a lot at > work because we have a few used copies of it and it's nice to hear while I'm > working. But the other day I was listening a bit more closely and it > occurred to me that "Lily" reminds me a lot of some of the themes on Pele, > especially on CaLS. A few things in particular... > > "Well I said > 'Lily, oh Lily I don't feel safe > I feel that life has blown a great big hole through me' > ANd she said > 'Child you must protect yourself > I'll show you how with fire'" I think fire speaks to a lot of people - remember Sarah McLachlan's "Into the Fire"? > This reminds me a lot of Tori's discussion of the notion that Pele was about > finding her own fire, so to speak. Not stealing it from men anymore, but > finding it within... and I've always thought that that search really started > with CaLS (both because it was the single, the song we heard before we heard > the whole album, and because it seems to be the turning point for the album > being in the middle). CaLS talks about finding strength in womanhood and > female friends ("I need a big loan from the girl zone...") and here Bush is > talking to Lily is -- and I'm naive enough that I don't know if she's > talking about a specific figure or a friend -- but it's obviously a feminine > influence. Then she says: > > "Gabriel before me > Raphael behind me > Michael to my right > Uriel on my left side > In the circle of fire" Sounds like something out of a Golden Dawn ritual...(of course the origins are much earlier). > And Tori says: "Boys on my left side/Boys on my right side/Boys in the > middle/And you're not here." > > Now, before anyone gets up in arms, I'm not saying that Tori is stealing > anything from Kate Bush's work (as some people have alleged). I just think > it's neat that it seems Tori was inspired by this song. Other songs on the > album, like the title track and Rubberband Girl, are inspirational in the > sense of finding strength and becoming more magical (in the first) and more > flexible (in the second). > > What do you guys think, especially those of you who listen to both artists? > I found it really interesting. I think a lot of the same things inspire both artists; but they each are crafting their own individual creations. "rosalind's pea soup" ("keriloo") writes: > To elaborate on Yvette's comment... > I think the majority of Tori's more powerful emotional songs follow a > very spirit-connected sexual rhythm that is very comparable to our > mentalities during such an encounter...like she says, she is some > sort of a Mary Magdalene...spiritually aware of herself in every > sense. You might be interested in "The moon beneath her feet" by Kintsler, where the Magdalene is the title of a priestess (who's called the "whore of babylon" by various folks). One of the Marys who is a Magdalene is a primary character - now here's a tie-in to an earlier thread: Judas is identified with Set (Seth), Jesu (jesus) is Osiris, and Mary with Isis. Don't care for the sacrificial king bit, but on the whole an enjoyable story (which I won't give away *too* much of the plot of here). > I know I can definitely connect with this, due to my religious > upbringing and the sexual taboos that were shoved down my throat. > I mean....think about it...PW...precious things...blood > roses...LE...Space Dog(definitely has the rhythm part)... > She balances these with songs revealing little bits of > insight...lighter songs...and then she has the heart-rippers...slow > and pulling your guts out. Although not filled with the > rhythm, the residue of it kinda sticks and you get the feeling that > the orgasm has passed and you're sitting there in a little movie > theatre of your life watching it pass by and trying to hold on to the > moments. Blood Roses is *almost* too intense now for me after having read Walker's "Posessing the Secret of Joy" -- I imagine Tashi painting huger and more grotesque roosters in a mad frenzy in that house, as she's remembering the past... the image is too vivid. Still enjoy connecting with that intense an emotion, but wow, not to be taken lightly. sheesh. I think a lot of tori's songs have some of this intense of energy behind them, cuz we *really* don't know what they mean to her, at least not all the time - there's more there than meets the ear. - -Richard. (the other richard) @ \@/ Richard A. Holmes (rholmes@cs.stanford.edu) @ | @ \|/ " 'The Book of History has many missing pages' @ | Murmurs the Madonna of the Middle Ages @ , , | , , But in between her cracks you can read between the lines @ ' ' ' ' ' She'd love nothing better than to rob the Louvre blind @ Baroque and complicated, her lovers never stay @ It looks like Mona Lisa is having a bad day... " @ - Michelle Shocked, "Looks Like Mona Lisa.." (on Captain Swing) @ @ Kiva / Kate Price \ Dar Williams / Renaissance \ Sheila Chandra / Laura Love @ Susan McKeown \ Sarah McLachlan / Libana \ Danielle Dax \ Dog Faced Hermans @ Loreena McKennitt / Kate Bush \ Tori Amos / Katell Keineg / Happy Rhodes @ Ingrid Karklins \ Sinead O'Connor / Jane Siberry / Pauline Oliveros ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V2 #352 *************************************