From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V2 #335 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Wednesday, November 26 1997 Volume 02 : Number 335 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Get it while you can ["Philip Parr" ] The Rape/Sexual Assault Topic....facts... ["Raven" ] Re: Paula Cole [fuzzbox@world.std.com (Logynon Femidom Microgynon)] Re: me and a gun [Urucyon@aol.com] re: generalizations about men [horse ] Radio Free and Boys for Pele [Shirley ] Response... ["Mark Biscomb, or so they say..." ] Re: Radio Free and Boys for Pele ["lydi[uh]" ] "Me and a Gun" [David Prestidge ] professional Widow [ButterFliKip ] Tori.. Just right? ["Scott_ Taylor" ] Searching [Manny Monserrate ] Great Expectations ["~the franchise~ forever t-boz's guy" <4evertbozsguy@] Fairy Tales (A Tori page) IS BACK!!!! [JWATTS ] Re: Searching [Nadyne Mielke ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:11:40 PST From: "Philip Parr" Subject: Get it while you can The character DELERIUM makes an appearance in the comic entitled VERTIGO: Winter's Edge On sale Wed. Nov. 26th. IMPORTANT because Delerium is the character Neil Gaiman models after Tori. Also because it is a RARE Neil appearance, and in comic circles, he's hot. So here's your chance. BTW Delerium is Sandman's sister; she is of the Endless. The bad news? It's $7.95. The book is an anthology of new stories featuring characters from the Vertigo line of comics. The Delerium story is just one of these. But, if you've never tried a great dose of storytelling in a comic book format, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Call your local comic store from the yellow pages. But enough. Now a mini-poll. Respond privately if you don't want to fill the list with answers. Q: What do you read? What stuff can you sink into? I'll go first. I used to enjoy Richard Bach (Illusions). Lately it's Clive Barker, Neil's Neverwhere was great! I'm liking - but taking forever in Tad William's Otherland. Your turn. Peace Phil Parr Lansing, Michigan kinkoid@hotmail.com Indecision is the key to flexability. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:54:04 -0700 From: "Raven" Subject: The Rape/Sexual Assault Topic....facts... Okay everyone. Obviously this topic is a very touchy topic. Especially for those of us who have gone through it. But I am a dispatcher for a police station and decided I'd post some info up here that might help... First, there are many cataogories to this. There is: Assault--which is when a person causes bodily injury to another, threatens another with imminent bodilt injury, or when the person causes physical contact with another that makes the other believe it offensive or provocative. Sexual Assault--a) which is when a person causes penetration of the female organ or anus without consent, b) causes penetration of mouth with sexual organ without consent, c) causes the organ of another to do the above without consent, causes a, b, or c on a minor, causes the person to submit to a, b, or c by means of physical force or violence, causes a, b, or c, on a person knowing that the person is unconscious or physically unable to resist, causes a, b, or c, on a person who has a mental disease or defect that leaves them unable to resist or able to appraise the nature, causes a, b, or c on a person who is unaware the act is occuring, causes a, b, or c, by administering any substance without knowledge, or causes the person to submit by means of threatening ANY person. Aggravated Assault-- the same as the assualt but with a weapon. Aggravated Sexual Assault- the same as the sexual assault but with a weapon. Now this is bsed off of the Texas Criminal Laws and might not be EXACTLY the same as in your state/country. I still think it shows that just because Tori might not have been physically penetrated, the things that happened to her rate just as high up in crimes and just as horrible. I hope this helps some. She did not "lie". Raven - --- - --Raven - --"and i hate...and i hate...and i hate elevator music, the way we fight, the way i'm left here, in silence..." Little Earthquakes, Tori Amos Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 18:17:57 -0500 (EST) From: JEDAS1@aol.com Subject: Re: rape vs sexual assault This was a moving story. Forgive me for my ignorance, but was that true? julie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 18:05:08 -0500 (EST) From: Urucyon@aol.com Subject: Re: rape vs sexual assault In a message dated 97-11-25 14:46:18 EST, you write: << Okay. Here's a situation someone close to me experienced. Let's debate on whether this was rape or sexual assault. "Lisa" was a senior in high school. Virgin. Was going to wait until she got married. She didn't approve of taking chances and possibly getting pregnant, and she respected the sanctity of that "first time". She met a college freshman down at the >> and so on You can call what he did rape, sexual assualt, sexual abuse, or grand theft auto if you like. whatever you call it, that fucking piece of shit needs the electric chair- straight up. What a horrible experience. i'm really sorry. Bryan Sniffen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 05:11:07 -0500 From: ron enros Subject: One more little question I just got to my e-mail today, so I didn't have the chance, but now I just wanted to thank everyone who answered me about the Tori concert in Montreal, it was very appreciated. But now I have to ask, is it a habit of Tori's to just go into piano stores and start playing their pianos? I was in one the other day, looking to buy a Tori piano book, and a salesman there, seeing how much I liked Tori, pointed to a beautiful Bosendorfer (sp?), and said she had played on that very one. Just came in, and asked to play it. I had to believe him, he seemed too happy about it, but does she do so often? Is there a chance one of us could walk into a piano store someday, & find her playing? Trina* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:51:14 -0500 (EST) From: fuzzbox@world.std.com (Logynon Femidom Microgynon) Subject: Re: Paula Cole > Just curious... just wanted to take a survey... but does anyone out > there get into Paula Cole like you get into Tori and Fiona? I mean, > playing her obsessively and singing "Throwing Stones" at the top of > your lungs in the car? It's wonderful! Whew! I'm glad I'm not the only one who has found screaming along to "throwing stones" to be incredibly helpful with getting over shit in one's life... I only wish the rest of "This Fire" was as strong as "Throwing Stones"... - -- Jason Bilsky fuzzbox@world.std.com http://world.std.com/~fuzzbox "Next year, I'm going to ask for the second-to-last spot on the bill. Who wants to follow Jewel?" -Sarah McLachlan, on the Lilith Fair ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:52:20 -0500 (EST) From: Urucyon@aol.com Subject: Re: me and a gun Ray Bailey writes in response to my previous letter- >Umm, 'scuse much, but last time *I* checked I was a male myself, and >I don't feel that way at all. I absolutely can't stand generalizations >that >don't recognize that YES there ARE those out there who DON'T fit the >pattern that you are describing. I hate being lumped into a large group >of people like I'm some kind of a mindless zombie or something... >I mean, please... I know that's close to the general attitude, but at >least >give credit to those of us who don't think, feel or act that way. >So maybe MOST guys feel that way... but PLEASE, at least mention that >there are those who DON'T. i think i put my foot in my mouth on that one. i should have been more clear. i was trying to describe the general *attitude* of America, not each and every male. of course there are plenty of decent men out there! anyway, when i wrote that, it was on the basis that all of us Ears with Feet are automatically excluded from the generalization i made :-), because i don't know anyone who loves Tori who is a total asshole. later Folks, Bryan Sniffen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:35:23 -0800 (PST) From: horse Subject: re: generalizations about men > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:53:15 PST > From: "Ray Bailey" > Subject: Re: me and a gun > > ><< it's positively disgusting to > > hear from a good portion of all you that tori's rape wasn't a real > > "rape". That remark reminds me, in a painful way, who is calling the > > shots in the U.S., and arguably, the world: men. It's attitudes of > > such that make it diffucult for many of our sisters to make rape > > a serious issue in the media, and the courts. >> > > > Umm, 'scuse much, but last time *I* checked I was a male myself, and > I don't feel that way at all. I absolutely can't stand generalizations > that > don't recognize that YES there ARE those out there who DON'T fit the > pattern that you are describing. I hate being lumped into a large group > of people like I'm some kind of a mindless zombie or something... > I mean, please... I know that's close to the general attitude, but at > least > give credit to those of us who don't think, feel or act that way. > So maybe MOST guys feel that way... but PLEASE, at least mention that > there are those who DON'T. > Ray, It's difficult to argue this point, because societally, not individually, we live in a nation controlled by men; more specifically, wealthy men of european descent. My point, which I felt was stated clearly, was that our society is dominated by domineering male attitudes. In the case we are discussing on this list, of what exactly defines rape, many male-centered attitudes were blurted out without second-questioning the origins of such. Merely asking if it was "really" a "rape" is wrong. We are not in the position to question that. Her experience was her own, and like I stated earlier, we are priviliged to hear her experience, and benefit from it. The strength we gain from Tori's experiences is not more or less as powerful upon knowing the details of her life. The difficulty of this argument is such that individuals may feel offended by truths and facts about society as a whole that have been otherwise kept from them. I am not generalizing about all men, I am exposing the inequalities that a patriarchial society can create, and the difficulties aroused by such inequalities. - -dominick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:49:57 -0800 From: Shirley Subject: Radio Free and Boys for Pele Radio Free, some commercial web site on the internet that is centered on entertainment, highly recommended Boys for Pele album as one of their top 10 picks! This is what they had to say about Boys for Pele: *** Never at a loss for vivid imagery and prolific verse, singer/songwriter/pianist Tori Amos delivers an album packed with 18 tracks of subtle, yet irresistable, emotion. Sometimes dark, sometimes lighthearted, always insightful. *** The URL is at http://www.radiofree.com/mus-rcmd.shtml if you want to look at it yourself :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:20:31 -0800 (PST) From: "Mark Biscomb, or so they say..." Subject: Response... > > << it's positively disgusting to > > hear from a good portion of all you that tori's rape wasn't a real > > "rape"...> > > > I truly hate the fact that you said [It's the women who cry wolf, > > unfortunately, or rather, sexual harassment/assault, at the slightest > > provocation or no provocation] > > this infuriates me beyond belief.> I've tried to stay out of this as long as I could, but I *MUST* respond to the above posts with a resounding "RIGHT ON." I've been sitting here typing and deleting stuff I want to say for the past five minutes because I'm just too angry with the way some people apparently think about this whole issue. I know I've got no right to hold this against anybody, but Jesus... for those of you who think it's "women crying wolf" or using sexual harassment as a weapon, I'm just plain disgusted. Peace, Love, and the Goddess-- Mark (who will probably change his mind about the wiseness of this post later on) ______________________________________________________________________________ | increase | |visi(bi)lity!| --------------- "Usually they sprinkle a few drops "Once you're friends with of water on your head; sad, you don't need to in my case, they held my head under be afraid of her anymore." for thirteen fucking years." -Tori Amos -Tori Amos "As for me, I'm one with my duality!" "Love all... open your eyes." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:15:02 -1000 From: "lydi[uh]" Subject: Re: Radio Free and Boys for Pele Radio Free is a station here in Hawaii that was bought off the air, their whole idea was to play real music and not care about ratings, they are/were the only station i know of to ever play tori and mazzy star on the radio.. oh, and Ani Difranco too... there's a fight to get them back on if anyoen is interested.. lydia Shirley wrote: > Radio Free, some commercial web site on the internet that is centered > on entertainment, highly recommended Boys for Pele album as one of > their top 10 picks! > > This is what they had to say about Boys for Pele: > > *** > > Never at a loss for vivid imagery and prolific verse, > singer/songwriter/pianist Tori Amos delivers an album packed with 18 > tracks of subtle, yet irresistable, emotion. Sometimes dark, sometimes > lighthearted, always insightful. > > *** > > The URL is at > > http://www.radiofree.com/mus-rcmd.shtml > > if you want to look at it yourself > > :) - -- '`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*' don't treat me like i am`*'`*' something that happened to you`*'`*'`*'` http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/9386*'`* trickle down my spine at p a p e r s o u l s'`*'` [link above]*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'` ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 18:53:14 -0600 From: David Prestidge Subject: "Me and a Gun" ON NOVEMBER 25 VIOLET WROTE: I want to point out to people that not only was she writing about her OWN experience in MaaG, but that the writing of it was triggered by seeing "Thelma and Louise," which many people either forget or don't know...and she's clearly meshed the two things together. Just to add to Violet's comments, Victor Brombert, reviewing an autobiography in the November 9th issue of the New York Time book review, had this to say about authors drawing material from personal=20 experience: "Seeing oneself as a protagonist in the text of one's life may be related to literary preoccupations with the difference between living and telling. Remembering the past may be a way of gaining control over the present as well as a way of multiplying experiences. To describe may mean to discover and create, as many an autobiographer has found out. The memoir is never far removed from fiction." To say that Ms. Amos compromises either her credibility as a writer or as a person because the details of a particular song do not necessarily correspond to a "lived experience" is to misunderstand the role and ,ultimately, the obligation the artist has to her audience.=20 Gaius Valerius Catullus, writing in approximately 54 BC, addressed critics who were angered that some of his love poems were...umm=85too affectionate. He responds with a scathing rebuff, writing: Nam castum esse decet pium poetum Ipsum, uersiculos nihil necesse est Which translates (very roughly) into: For the poet himself need be chaste But His verses need not be Catullus here makes a point writers have, ever since, been beside themselves to clarify. Simply put, one must make a distinction between art and the artist. Just because Vladamir Nabokov writes about pedophiles (Lolita) does not necessarily mean he is a pedophile. Following that logic, I don't see why "Me and a Gun" should prove an exception to the rule.=20 Of course, I am seeing things from a rather skewed perspective. Perhaps, as a woman, I would feel that, in this particular case, Tori had betrayed my trust. Comments? My thoughts, David Prestidge ____________________________________________________________________________= _______________________________________
"Thus great with child to speak, and helpless in my throes, Biting my trewand pen, beating myself for spite" 'Fool', said my Muse to me, 'look in thy heart and write.'"
--Sir Philip Sidney "Good sense eludes the overhasty pen." --Johann Wolfgang Goethe=20
____________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:56:14 -0800 From: ButterFliKip Subject: professional Widow hey everyone..I've been in florida for the past 3 weeks, unable to check my email and rather than read all 734687623487547 of the posts about pro widow, could someone just kind of give me a somewhat brief overview of what has been discussed and/or concluded by you? thanks... :) toodles kip* - -- "Healing for me is being able to sit next to the butcher and say, 'Yes, I'm sitting next to the butcher now,' instead of saying 'There is no butcher.' Well, there definitely is one!" -Tori Amos ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 21:08:27 PST From: "Scott_ Taylor" Subject: Tori.. Just right? I just wondered if anyone has ever seen the kellogs "Just Right" commercial Tori did a long time ago? Did it air in the U.S? I know someone must have taped their favorite show.. and the commercial popped in... Someone MUST have it taped.. anyone? //////////////////////////////////////////////////// Any one who says dinosaurs are not in the bible, have obviously never read the books of "Job" or "Isaiah" To find out the truth about popular misconceptions, and to see some really neat pictures go to my homepage: http://www.angelfire.com/ms/jesusdinosandmore/intropage.html Tell em Larry Boy sent ya ! //////////////////////////////////////////////////// ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:51:08 -0800 From: Manny Monserrate Subject: Searching Hi Toriphiles! I'm a huge fan of Tori, and am searching for a couple of items. I hope this is the right address to send this to, and that some of you can help me.I'm looking for: God 7" UK picture disc Boys for Pele on clear vinyl any copy(even if you copy it for me!) of Tori covering Madonna's Live to Tell I'm a collector of Madonna memoribilia, and am considering collecting Tori as well. Any more like me out there? I hope to hear from some of you soon! Joe Monserrate ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:27:48 -0500 From: "~the franchise~ forever t-boz's guy" <4evertbozsguy@geocities.com> Subject: Great Expectations Hey all I popped into Ye Olde CD Shoppe today to grab me the Bad Brains "Omega Sessions" EP (http://www.victoryrecords.com if that gets you excited *lmao*), and the clerk there just happened to open up a promo package from Atlantic that had the Great Expectations CD. I looked, there's only a couple of Tori songs and a lot of shit licensed from other labels (like The Greatful Dead etc.). You can all groan now. ~the franchise~ forever t-boz's guy mailto:4evertbozsguy@geocities.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:02:53 -0500 From: JWATTS Subject: Fairy Tales (A Tori page) IS BACK!!!! Hello all, thanks to everyone who wrote to me about the absence of Fairy Tales. i am very happy to report that it is back up!!! check it out at: http://stuff.to this whole site is brand new (except for Fairy Tales is the same) so bear with me while i get it up and running. i plan on some upgrades for Fairy Tales too. i also have to get the cgi scripts working for the guestlog and the wwwboard. but that should be done pretty soon. Please keep checking back every once in awhile while i try to make Fairy Tales one of the best tori pages around. thank you, Jason watts@stuff.to ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 00:15:21 -0500 (EST) From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: Searching On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, Manny Monserrate wrote: > Hi Toriphiles! I'm a huge fan of Tori, and am searching for a couple of > items. I hope this is the right address to send this to, and that some of > you can help me.I'm looking for: > God 7" UK picture disc > Boys for Pele on clear vinyl I haven't seen the picture disc available anywhere in awhile. However, the clear vinyl BfP is -very- easy to come by still. I picked up my copy for less than $10 a couple of weeks ago. I've seen it at several stores in my area {Atlanta}, such as Tower Records. If your local music store doesn't have it, they should be able to order it. > any copy(even if you copy it for me!) of Tori covering Madonna's Live to > Tell Well, to anyone's knowledge, Tori hasn't done a studio version of this. She did it once on her birthday in Greenville. If you want a cassette copy of this {I'll warn you right now that the sound quality isn't that great, but it's the best I've found so far}, drop me a line and we'll work something out. :) /nad *************************************************************************** * Nadyne Mielke, CS majour, Southern Tech, Marietta, GA * * * * "I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of * * oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate * * commerce. " -- J. Edgar Hoover * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V2 #335 *************************************